Games lately...

[Poerisija]

... have been a vast improvement since launch. People cover each other, smoke is used liberally and there is good amount of voicechat going. Haven't seen any of the 'run'n'gunners' lately either.

Maybe it's because all those complaining about too fast gameplay and no teamwork quit the game and we're left with the people who don't run and gun and use teamwork?

Edit: this is not directed towards anybody as an insult. Think more of a friendly jab. Sorry if I insulted somebody.

 

[Echo Black]

It depends much on the map. There's no way **** will not hit the fan in maps like Grain Elevator or Barracks. Larger maps like Spartanovka and Commisar's end up promoting somewhat-organized groups of defense, and overall teamplay tends to show up more often, since their sprawling size and multiple attack angles reduce by much the difference a single person can make.

Ideally, we'd need maps even larger.

---

 

[Echo Black]

Wow Cyper, way to completely derail the thread. He posted about how he's had good rounds lately and out of nowhere comes the usual diatribe about RO2's gameplay.

---

 

[Alperce]

^

Try doing that ingame.

You can't just post a video that has been posted over and over again of one, random killstreak and say the game is exactly like that. Even because it isn't.

 

[Das Bose]

[/b]

Which is not true.

I just explained why in my first post.

Come and try some of the crap in that video against a competent team. You play the game so infrequently you have no idea what you are talking about I'm afraid

People are learning how to play and tactics are improving. If you actually played instead of repeating yourself in every thread on the forums, I wouldn't need to be explaining this.

 

[Dionysos]

Of course this "sense of improvement" is highly subjective, but I feel this a little as well. It always depends on where and when you play too though. I play on realism only servers in the EU due to ping. Either there's already voice chat goign on or once you start talking yourself people join in and are enthusiastic about it. Not everyone, but enough to make a difference.

 

[stern]

ive found theres a new element of team work goin on. sls and tls knowing how to help rather than hinder, and tactical help, saying hold such a flank or attack such a point.

however, mostly on jerry side, ive found theres also a massive lack of wanting to attack, most the team are to busy hiding 100m away from teh cap zone to never get the numbers to take the cap. pavlovshouse is the showcase for this, ive played it all week, and not see the germans get past the sqaure and often end up pushed out of the corner ruins, thus losing the map. and thats with smoke use, and voice chat being used plenty. which is kinda the opposite to team play when people arent willing to work with others coz theyed rather hide to get 1or2 kills and barely any team points, when the attackers are on multiple team points and several kill points, might of died more but who cares?

 

[Cyper]

I will write what I tried to avoid in the first place.

The fact that you can sprint up for stairs, quickaim, bandage yourself faster than a ninja, and run around hipshooting with the MG, gain skillpoints, unlocks, and perks (e.i less recoil and so on) and fight agianst the lockdown timer makes this game incompetent as a tactical shooter.

This is mainly the way I play the game. Why? Because It's accessible. It's supposed to be enjoyed by EVERYONE and not just people that like slow, tactical gameplay. It gives people the freedom to play like rambo but it doesn't force them to. It gives people the freedom to experience the God-like cheat Mkb. Saying that ''It depends on the players'' doesnt mean anything at all and it's certainly not some kind of evidence that the game is tactical. With the right people even a match in COD could become tactical if people used VOIP and played it serious with people they knew. Does it makes it tactical? No, it doesnt, because the players aren't forced to play it in a realistic and tactical manner. It's optional. It's a choice the player can make. In games like arma, or even RO OST; you were given one choice: Play the game as it's intended to be played or don't play at all. So it isn't about how you play the game. It's about what the game allows you to do. This is the diffrence between a accessible game: It gives the player freedom to play how they want. In in ro2 you CAN be dependent on perks, skillpoints, unlocks, a happytriggerfinger, quickaiming, twitchy movements, and all that, OR you can play the game tactically. But it's a choice and you're not forced to. That's why I don't consider ro2 as a fullblown tactical shooter.

I know people hate me for this post aswell but I frankly don't care. Please don't deny the direction RO2 have taken with various threads and posts, that tries to persuade people that ''Yeah, ro2 is really realistic and tactical'' when it in fact is the opposite. TWI have choosen this direction and you can either like it or dislike it. If you like the game isn't that good enough? Imo it is, and there is absolutely no reason to make the game into something it isn't and/or blame all this on the players when it in fact is the game mechanics to blame.

 

[GRIZZLY]

Wow Cyper, way to completely derail the thread. He posted about how he's had good rounds lately and out of nowhere comes the usual diatribe about RO2's gameplay.

---

He was actually completely on topic. OP said that maybe the people who were complaining about Ro2's gameplay have quit and now only players who use teamwork remain.

I'm with Cyper. I don't play Ro2 because I don't like the gameplay changes made from Ro1. It's not because of MW3 or BF3 (which I will never buy).... and it's not because I'm a 12 year old n00b who sucks and has no idea how to work with a squad. It's not because of performance issues. It's because I get bored of peek-a-boo-you're-dead rifleman gameplay and Kenyan-sprinting-up-the-stairs assault gameplay within an hour.

In Ro1 I spent my time thinking about my next move, tactically maneuvering, and carefully aiming. In Ro2 I sprint as fast as I can out of the spawn and try to angle myself on enemies so I can hip shoot spray them like they are a Demon from DOOM.

I'm sure even you guys who love the game would love it even more if some of the fire fights and maneuvering returned. I'm not trolling and I'm not some ill informed or ultra biased sociopath. I am a normal gamer and Ro:Ostfront is, and probably will remain, my favorite game of all time.

 

[ightenhill]

For me both Cypher and Da Bose both have valid points.. I totally agree the videos a bit extreme.. A good server with competent players would stop it happening..

However the crux of the matter is the core game.. Its map design, speed and idiotic weapon balance on corridor style maps actually encourages this type of game play, especially when you chasing XP. (wheres the auction house and how do I make special weapons by the way)

You cant force people to be tactical.. However you can design maps and balance in such a way that duke nukem railgun play style is pointless.

If it was known the engine was so limited in map size because of draw call issues why on earth is every map designed in such a corridor race fashion.. I would have thought the first instinct would be to disguise the small size by reducing speed and the use of railguns as a way if forcing through the corridors.

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

^

Try doing that ingame.

You can't just post a video that has been posted over and over again of one, random killstreak and say the game is exactly like that. Even because it isn't.

Exactly.... I'm getting so sick and tired of people coming into any thread that has something positive to say about RO2, who continually recycle the same crap complaints and the same two videos of some joe blow running around with an MKB42 in Apartments... in the exact same spot of the map to boot.... and then act like that's somehow evidence to support their complaints that nobody can refute.

Cyper, get over yourself and move on already.... you're not winning any arguments with this crap.

Anywho, back to the topic at hand.... I too have noticed that the player base has improved and it seems as though most online have figured out the maps, the weapons, the game mechanics, the objectives and tactics.... there is less camping and there are less people running around and shooting randomly, mostly because more and more players know what they're doing and mow them down too often.

The less players know how to play properly, the more will camp and the more will run&gun..... because they have the room for error and the room to take chances. Now that most know what they're doing and where they're going, it's even harder for people to run&gun, thus they need to conform to a more tactical gameplay in order to live a little longer.

I have even noticed that the online community in-game are more friendlier, where a couple of weekends ago I was playing TE-FallenFighters and someone came on and introduced themselves on the mic and explained that this was their first time booting up the game and playing. Everybody gave him pointers, tips and explained controls to him.

Point Being:

Those who give a damn and actually enjoy the game are playing the game..... those who don't like the game and suck at the game are in the forums complaining and trolling the same crap over and over again until they get a game that caters exactly to their own tastes.... and that taste is about not learning anything new and playing the exact same limited and unrealistic game they already have (RO1)

But because they don't have drunken sway, foollish recoil, tunnel vision with pixel hunting behind a picket fence that can withstand a tank round and their enemies are not getting stuck on the corner of a door or a brick on the ground for an easy kill.... suddenly it's not realistic, it's too arcade'y, and nobody likes it.

Keep reaching for that raibow

 

[CrossTrain]

Wow Cyper, way to completely derail the thread. He posted about how he's had good rounds lately and out of nowhere comes the usual diatribe about RO2's gameplay.

---

Yeah. And HE had the balls to say, "This. Again..."

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

He was actually completely on topic. OP said that maybe the people who were complaining about Ro2's gameplay have quit and now only players who use teamwork remain.

I'm with Cyper. I don't play Ro2 because I don't like the gameplay changes made from Ro1.

Well there you go.... you just proved his point. He said the reason why game play has improved is because most of those who don't play right or just don't care no longer play.... you just admitted you no longer play, so what's the problem?

It's not because of MW3 or BF3 (which I will never buy).... and it's not because I'm a 12 year old n00b who sucks and has no idea how to work with a squad. It's not because of performance issues. It's because I get bored of peek-a-boo-you're-dead rifleman gameplay and Kenyan-sprinting-up-the-stairs assault gameplay within an hour.

You know that you could sprint up stairs in RO1 right?

And peek-a-boo-you're-dead shooting existed in RO1 just as much, if not more. I've seen just as many people in RO1 pop up and down from crouch behind cover while iron sighted the whole time, picking people off in much the same fashion, so there's no argument there either.

In Ro1 I spent my time thinking about my next move, tactically maneuvering, and carefully aiming.

And I spent my time in both RO1 and RO2 doing all of that too.

In Ro2 I sprint as fast as I can out of the spawn and try to angle myself on enemies so I can hip shoot spray them like they are a Demon from DOOM.

That's not only your own fault, but it's also why you're not enjoying yourself. Just because you think you can run and gun easier in RO2 than in RO1, that doesn't mean you'll do better.... in fact, you'll end up dead real quick.... which is one of the observations made by the OP and others in this thread (there being fewer players like you on servers)

It's actually pretty damn funny that you're the one doing the exact same thing you're complaining about that exists in the game, contributing to the elements of the game you don't like, and thus..... only have yourself to blame for a game you don't like.

I'm sure even you guys who love the game would love it even more if some of the fire fights and maneuvering returned.

It's already there in RO2.

I'm not trolling and I'm not some ill informed or ultra biased sociopath. I am a normal gamer and Ro:Ostfront is, and probably will remain, my favorite game of all time.

Yes, it probably will remain your favorite game over RO2.... so long as you continue to try and play RO2 as if it's not an RO game. Admitting that you run and gun around in RO2 and then complaining about there being too much run and gunning in the game is kind of a bullet to the head of your argument.

Maybe if you stopped running around and trying to hip shoot everybody point blank..... started to take cover, look around you and think about what you're doing..... while also trying to get the rest of your team involved with what you're doing.... you'll notice that the game is very much RO.

The thing is, I remember a number of times back in RO1 and RO:CA where everybody ran around hip shooting one another or camping their arses off the entire round, and it happened more often when the majority of players were not familiar with the map or simply were not wanting to play very tactically that day. The Mod was more run and gun at the start and so was RO1. When players get more familiar with the games and know what they're doing.... they're more inclined to play carefully and with some level of skill.... and when the majority of players on a map play this way, it's easy for the rest on the map to follow suit.

So now we have hardcore RO1 fans who jumped into RO2 right at the start, complaining about their limited experience in the game where they experienced most players running and gunning all over the place.... and use two videos from the beta era to try and prove their point as if those videos and/or their arguments are somehow still valid & that those videos are an example of what everybody does in RO2, which they're not and very few do.

But that's ok..... I can play that game:
red orchestra-NWbourreau - YouTube

^ Wow, check out all the nade spam and STG44 / PPSH Running and gunning from the hip..... I guess because I found one video showcasing all of this in RO1, Everything about RO1 must be the exact same and every player is like this

Y'all need to find a new argument.

 

[2feathers]

you can rambo in RO1 as well
Red Orchestra : HipShooting - YouTube

 

[Poerisija]

Thanks for posting the videos guys. I in fact went onto RO1, gonna see if I can tape some good material on pulling off the EXACT SAME STUNTS people claim only can happen in RO2.

 

[Krobar]

you can rambo in RO1 as well

It's just harder and not every new player fresh from arcadia can do it.

 

[GRIZZLY]

Well there you go.... you just proved his point. He said the reason why game play has improved is because most of those who don't play right or just don't care no longer play.... you just admitted you no longer play, so what's the problem?

He insinuated that the teamwork situation has improved because people like me ("complainers") stopped playing - implying that I'm a bad team player and toxic to teamwork - when in reality I'm a team player for life.

I don't even know what to say to the rest of your post dude. You can say you like the game more than Ro1 but there's no denying that there are no longer sustained firefight and assault classes sprint through buildings at full speed instead of slowly clearing corners. The engagements feel like DOOM or Wolfenstein or CoD or BF where you're running AT the enemy instead of negotiating and maneuvering. People only pull the trigger for a kill - there's no more suppressing fire. The fights are not indicative of WW2 combat - It's arcadey. Me and probably close to 100 people I've talked to (through the internet or in real life) completely agree with this assessment.

And, as I've stated here and elsewhere, I'm not trying be a troll or misery-loves-company or kill-all-the-good-vibes..... I just want TWI to read my posts and realize how much it would benefit the community to release a "classic mode". Everything you like can stay in normal mode! I'm just frustrated because Ro2 is 90% the game of my dreams - I just need the classic mode for that extra 10%! No other FPS based on Stalingrad is gonna come out any time soon... Why can't you guys just let us wish, hope, and plead for classic mode? You don't need to stomp out my dreams just because yours has been achieved. I want the game to IMPROVE! We know TWI is working on the game NOW! THIS is the time to tell them what I, as well as many people that I speak for, ultimately want out of the game. What you call complaining - I call constructive community input.

Can you take a gameplay video of what you consider to be 'the best' or 'the most fun' parts of Ro2 Praxius? There are lots of tactical videos from Ro1 and DH on youtube (not gonna deny there are nade spam and hip spray ones as well) but Ro2 videos seem mostly focused on kill streaks.

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

He insinuated that the teamwork situation has improved because people like me ("complainers") stopped playing - implying that I'm a bad team player and toxic to teamwork - when in reality I'm a team player for life.

I don't even know what to say to the rest of your post dude. You can say you like the game more than Ro1 but there's no denying that there are no longer sustained firefight and assault classes sprint through buildings at full speed instead of slowly clearing corners.

There's all sorts of denying available, as I haven't seen but maybe a couple of people do what you claim above in game for the last few weeks..... I never bother to do any of the above and anybody who tries to do the above get shot up real quick by myself or by others on my team.

And as shown by my video and the other video just posted, people running and gunning existed plenty in RO1 and people can try their best to attempt to make it sound as if it's more in RO2 than RO1..... they can try and act as though it's more difficult to do in RO1 than in RO2, but it's not anymore difficult.... people have been running around hip shooting since the mod days and has never gone away, nor will it ever go away.

The engagements feel like DOOM or Wolfenstein or CoD or BF where you're running AT the enemy instead of negotiating and maneuvering.

Anybody who runs at the enemy die really quickly, and in order to last more than 5 seconds in a firefight, one needs to keep their head down, think about what they're doing, flank the enemy and/or get your team to help you.

As mentioned before, you have already admitted to being one of these run&gun players, so it's no wonder it feels like a run&gun game to you.... try playing using different tactics other than hip shooting MKB42's in apartments and you might actually see this.

People only pull the trigger for a kill - there's no more suppressing fire.

Since I play MG often, I'm using suppression often..... if I'm using a tank, I'll use shells for suppression, if I'm using anything other than a Rifle, I'll lay down suppression. Even if the target is hiding behind something and safe, I'll still shoot at them so they're suppressed and my team can move forward or flank.

The fights are not indicative of WW2 combat - It's arcadey.

Of course, you'd know.... right?

Me and probably close to 100 people I've talked to (through the internet or in real life) completely agree with this assessment.

100 people?

Well I know 10,000 people who think otherwise..... or is it 10,000,000?

And, as I've stated here and elsewhere, I'm not trying be a troll or misery-loves-company or kill-all-the-good-vibes..... I just want TWI to read my posts and realize how much it would benefit the community to release a "classic mode".

Good... then keep those comments and issues in the threads that relate to it.... stop hi-jacking every god damn thread to recycle the same crap over and over again.

I'm sure Tripwire has already read these complaints and issues many times already.... spamming the same crap in every thread someone creates to say something good about the game isn't going to accomplish anything.

Everything you like can stay in normal mode! I'm just frustrated because Ro2 is 90% the game of my dreams - I just need the classic mode for that extra 10%! No other FPS based on Stalingrad is gonna come out any time soon... Why can't you guys just let us wish, hope, and plead for classic mode?

By all means, do so.... in the threads that relate.... stop hi-jacking everything in the forums and changing the conversations back to the same thing that exists in every 2nd thread.

You're not accomplishing anything by doing this except making more and more people get sick & tired of your complaints & issues and thus.... less & less people start taking you seriously and more & more people will be less inclined to accept or even try to work with you to get what you want.

You don't need to stomp out my dreams just because yours has been achieved.

I can and I will when you and others keep bringing up the same crap over and over again in threads this issue has no relation to.

The thread was about what one player has noticed when it comes to the average player in RO2 right now and how fewer people are camping, fewer people are running around and hip shooting and more people are starting to use their brains in the game.......

..... then suddenly you and Cyper come along and derail the topic to b*tch and moan about how RO2 isn't what you wanted and to go on and on again about how you want RO2 to be changed back to a carbon copy of RO1 (or at least, add another game mode that suits what you want)

"Maybe it's because all those complaining about too fast gameplay and no teamwork quit the game and we're left with the people who don't run and gun and use teamwork?"

^ From the original post.... he didn't direct this at you or Cyper and could have very well been directed at the BF/CoD players or anybody else for that matter, yet you guys decided to take this opportunity to preach on about your holy crusade of RO1 yet again.

I want the game to IMPROVE! We know TWI is working on the game NOW! THIS is the time to tell them what I, as well as many people that I speak for, ultimately want out of the game. What you call complaining - I call constructive community input.

Can you take a gameplay video of what you consider to be 'the best' or 'the most fun' parts of Ro2 Praxius? There are lots of tactical videos from Ro1 and DH on youtube (not gonna deny there are nade spam and hip spray ones as well) but Ro2 videos seem mostly focused on kill streaks.

Well if that's what you look for, that's what you'll find.

There's plenty out there available:
Red Orchestra 2 Heroes of Stalingrad + LIFE - YouTube

Red Orchestra 2: Heroes of Stalingrad Gameplay - YouTube

 

[Temporary]

*All previous post*

You seem so polite and nice when talking to people raising their concerns abour RO2 gameplay...

---

I love it when the guy post about :

- the difference between a tactical shooter and a normal shooter

- that games allowing tactical gameplay are very different from games requiring tactical gameplay

- the run'n'gun prominence over cover/tactical placement, thanks to the faster pace of the game :
* faster movements (all three running, sprinting, sprinting with no stamina)
* faster stamina recovery
* faster weapon drawing when going from sprint to run movement speed (<= most important for run'n'gun gameplay)
* faster iron-sighting
* much more SMG/semi-auto per players

... And you just spam the same points again and again, without paying attention to what he said :

- "this is not RO1, so if you don't like RO2 that's because you don't want to learn something new, you just want a carbon copy of RO1 with HD graphics"

- "but at the same time, this is like RO1, it's tactical realism stuff everywhere"

- "RO1 was the same thing, hip shooting and grenade spam all the way / but it's new stuff you don't want to learn at the same time !"

- "play it and stop complaining, just play it and remain silent"

---

Oh, and about the "Make an effort, play it LIKE a tactical shooter, it will be awesome !" point :

=> I tried this since the beta to last week. I wasn't being very useful to my team, and was getting slaughtered by run'n'ngun players all the time. 20 kills per round was my maximum.

* Worse : as a MG gunner, I never shot without deploying the bipod, I was even trying to provide covering fire to my teamates (true story ! ).
​

=> Last week, I thought "screw that, I'm going CoD" and did the sprint-shoot-sprint, with no respect to cover, tactical teamwork, frontline, etc. I'm blasting away the enemy team, my K/D ratio went from ~0.6-0.7 to 2-2.5, and each round I get between 30 to 50 kills.

* I loot grenades like mad and spam them everywhere (spamming 8 grenades in a row is pretty common), I loot weapons and empty them in walls/smokes/at every corner like crazy (I'm getting a good load of kills thanks to that random spam btw).
​

* Run'n'gun spam-sniping with PPS/MP40 spam is becoming a reflex. I pity the poor lads who thought they were safe behind a wall/sandbag at 150 meters.
> complex how-to : Sprint in the open => aim+zoom in less than 0.3 seconds => empty the clip (lol no recoil) => sprint away=> get the kill - rinse and repeat.
​

So, according to you, I should play it like RO1, get steamrolled and make my team lose by run'n'gunners ?

Why should I be the stupid naive chum in the middle, saying "Hey guys, we should play RO2 like a tactical shooter, it would be super cool !" while all the run'n'gunner insult and humiliate me ?

---

I gave up on RO2 and now I play it like the old CoD/MoH, a fast-paced shooter with few "modern" features like bullet penetration/bullet drop.

And this is not really fun, as it's pretty generic and plagued with campers/spawn-rapists.

 

[Proud_God]

You seem so polite and nice when talking to people raising their concerns abour RO2 gameplay...

---

I love it when the guy post about :

- the difference between a tactical shooter and a normal shooter

- that games allowing tactical gameplay are very different from games requiring tactical gameplay

- the run'n'gun prominence over cover/tactical placement, thanks to the faster pace of the game :
* faster movements (all three running, sprinting, sprinting with no stamina)
* faster stamina recovery
* faster weapon drawing when going from sprint to run movement speed (<= most important for run'n'gun gameplay)
* faster iron-sighting
* much more SMG/semi-auto per players

... And you just spam the same points again and again, without paying attention to what he said :

- "this is not RO1, so if you don't like RO2 that's because you don't want to learn something new, you just want a carbon copy of RO1 with HD graphics"

- "but at the same time, this is like RO1, it's tactical realism stuff everywhere"

- "RO1 was the same thing, hip shooting and grenade spam all the way / but it's new stuff you don't want to learn at the same time !"

- "play it and stop complaining, just play it and remain silent"

---

Oh, and about the "Make an effort, play it LIKE a tactical shooter, it will be awesome !" point :

=> I tried this since the beta to last week. I wasn't being very useful to my team, and was getting slaughtered by run'n'ngun players all the time. 20 kills per round was my maximum.

* Worse : as a MG gunner, I never shot without deploying the bipod, I was even trying to provide covering fire to my teamates (true story ! ).
​

=> Last week, I thought "screw that, I'm going CoD" and did the sprint-shoot-sprint, with no respect to cover, tactical teamwork, frontline, etc. I'm blasting away the enemy team, my K/D ratio went from ~0.6-0.7 to 2-2.5, and each round I get between 30 to 50 kills.

* I loot grenades like mad and spam them everywhere (spamming 8 grenades in a row is pretty common), I loot weapons and empty them in walls/smokes/at every corner like crazy (I'm getting a good load of kills thanks to that random spam btw).
​

* Run'n'gun spam-sniping with PPS/MP40 spam is becoming a reflex. I pity the poor lads who thought they were safe behind a wall/sandbag at 150 meters.
> complex how-to : Sprint in the open => aim+zoom in less than 0.3 seconds => empty the clip (lol no recoil) => sprint away=> get the kill - rinse and repeat.
​

So, according to you, I should play it like RO1, get steamrolled and make my team lose by run'n'gunners ?

Why should I be the stupid naive chum in the middle, saying "Hey guys, we should play RO2 like a tactical shooter, it would be super cool !" while all the run'n'gunner insult and humiliate me ?

---

I gave up on RO2 and now I play it like the old CoD/MoH, a fast-paced shooter with few "modern" features like bullet penetration/bullet drop.

And this is not really fun, as it's pretty generic and plagued with campers/spawn-rapists.

Sounds like you suck @MGing bro