Gameplay has turned into a campfest...

[Apex.]

hello kitty island advertures is more realistic than cod..

the camping is getting annoying, seems everyone is camping though, even with a ppsh or mp40, when they should be the ones on the frontline, riflemen not far behind them for support along with mg's, sniper should be the eyes of the battlefield, spotting the enemy and picking off the hard to reach people.

 

[KarmakazeNZ]

i can't seem to be able to make the vision zoom. care to show me how

OK, let me try speaking very slowly. When you press shift, the view isn't being zoomed IN. When you let go of shift, the view is being zoomed OUT. The part YOU think is realistic is FAKE. What is so hard to understand?

In the game, if a person is 100m away, and you shift-zoom, they look just as large as they do to your real eyes. The difference is, the field of view is lower so you have much less peripheral vision.

To compensate for this, ALL games have a wider FOV which causes an unnaturally LOW zoom level. Because more of the world is being drawn, any one part of it is smaller. It's perfectly logical if you think about it. The human eyeball has a focused FOV of about 60 degrees. The MINIMUM field of view you can have in this game is 70 degrees. At that level, the size of objects drawn on screen is unrealistically small, hence the shift-zoom, which is actually shift-FOV-narrow. It's NOT being zoomed, its just being drawn at actual size.

I am being very repetitive here in an attempt to maybe find a way of explaining it so that you understand. You are mistaken about what is real and what isn't in this respect. Other games have lied to you. THIS is as realistic as you can get, given the hardware.

your uncle shot a rifle at 30m standing unsupported, people can get that with 100 over like its nothing, no alignment issues at all.

Do you know how big a Sparrow's head is? I'm not saying he shot the sparrow. I am saying he shot it's HEAD at 30m with a snapshot. I never even saw the bird until its head exploded.

The kind of shots you think are unrealistic in this game, are the kind of shots you HAVE to get to even be allowed to carry on serving in the NZ Army. Fail to get those kinds of shots for too long and you will be let go. That's why they spend so much time practising. In the real world, the good shots were dominant, because the bad shots died. It's natural selection in action.

but no where did they publishes with high intent for everyone to know was that they were to make the game share cod characteristics/mechanics.

What CoD mechanics? Nothing in this game is done even remotely similar to CoD. Care to name a specific instance? Or is this just your FEELING?

take a photo of the medals you have.

LOL, How old are you? Grow up. People can serve in the military of their nation without having earned medals. They still know a ****-load more about it than someone who hasn't even worn a uniform, let alone carried a rifle for a job.

by your account you guys should of won every war already with 300m kills like shoot fish in a bucket.

I'm going to assume English isn't your first language. What do you mean? Do you want me to show you an in-game scoreboard to prove I can get a good score?

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=64813&page=3

Check the last post on that page of the thread.

-

I wanted to add this to show you that the double kill I showed you in that thread was not a fluke:

In this one, one guy was camping behind the wall, the other was camping in the window. I knew there was fire coming from that location, so I sprinted forward, went prone, got two kills. I was in the open, they were in cover. They didn't even shoot at me because I was too quick for them. It's nothing to do with sway and everything to do with they simply didn't expect to see me and couldn't react in time. I was in the open going prone, and neither of them even shot at me.

 

[Stormer]

So, KarmakazeNZ, tell us why RO2 is more realistic than CoD, surely no sway and recoil at all is exactly how it is in real life and CoD is the most realistic game ever.

 

[KarmakazeNZ]

(12lbs extra from MG makes you run way too slow when compared to SMG).

While I agree that it feels a little slow to me, I'd like to point out that the difference in weight is actually closer to 20lbs. The MG-34 weighs about 12KG, which is 26lbs.

In the real world though, big guns were given to big boys. So they are pretty much just as quick as anyone else, because the relative load to body weight is about the same.

 

[KarmakazeNZ]

So, KarmakazeNZ, tell us why RO2 is more realistic than CoD, surely no sway and recoil at all is exactly how it is in real life and CoD is the most realistic game ever.

Funny. I see lot's of sway and recoil in the game. Are you legally blind or something?

It may not be ridiculously fake biased-to-the-rifleman sway and recoil, but it's definitely there. More importantly the bullet goes in the direction the barrel is pointing, so you can compensate. CoD uses random number generators and animations that have nothing to do with the ballistics.

I also happen to have some programming experience and I am a little familiar with how these game engines work, so I can tell you the difference is the same as the difference between poker and craps. One takes skill, the other takes luck. CoD takes luck.

CoD is totally unrealistic, it's just in the opposite direction to RO1. That doesn't make RO1 realistic.

-

Put it this way, I bet you think an SMG firing one round should have more sway and recoil than a rifle firing one round, even though it is lighter and fires a less powerful round.

 

[Gaizokubanou]

While I agree that it feels a little slow to me, I'd like to point out that the difference in weight is actually closer to 20lbs. The MG-34 weighs about 12KG, which is 26lbs.

In the real world though, big guns were given to big boys. So they are pretty much just as quick as anyone else, because the relative load to body weight is about the same.

Yeah the weight difference would be different for Germans than Russians, since DP28 is suppose to be around 20lbs.

so maybe i have **** eyes and i can't zoom

Urgh, the zoom in this game doesn't represent some magical zoom in feature that people don't have... it represents actual vision. What you see in the game without zoom? That's the insanely unrealistic vision because it's zoomed out. That's why it's hard to kill targets around 200m in lot of video games because they leave the game at a zoom level that makes objects look smaller than they are.

So why do lot of these games feature such unrealistic perspective? Because we have a hardware limitation called monitors. Odds are, the monitor doesn't cover your entire field of view. People don't normally own monitors that big and even if they do, nobody really plays games that close to the screen where they see nothing but the monitor. So physically, monitors capture very limited field of view. So to somehow give players peripheral visions in FPS, they made the default perspective to be one where you are zoomed out.

 

[The Beast (nl)]

This is al caused by the zoomed view, everybody has a sniper now
on the small maps. When this is gone the problem is much less.

I am always a encounter as i was in RO1. The most players
of a map keeps camping. What i say against them it stays so.

 

[KarmakazeNZ]

This is al caused by the zoomed view, everybody has a sniper now
on the small maps. When this is gone the problem is much less.

So what you're saying is when the game is less realistic, it's better for you? How does that make you different from the CoD players?

 

[Rak]

I find it boring that I can stand still and have the same accuracy I have with the gun rested.

it's just not fun that I can run for miles and have no penalty while shooting.

It's annoying that a guy shoots three bullets in my chest and I can kill him and bandage later on.

It's ridiculous that I can get 60 meters headshots while bleeding to death.

It's hilarious that I can sprint and zigzag while the enemy unloads a gun on me and stab him with the bayonet and then bandage as if nothing happened.

I remember RO where every kill felt like you really achieved something, now it's just counting how many you can kill before they hunt you down.

These bits are the points that are killing the gameplay. The game feels like UT instagib and I rarely see proper firefights develop, unlike RO1.

 

[KarmakazeNZ]

These bits are the points that are killing the gameplay. The game feels like UT instagib and I rarely see proper firefights develop, unlike RO1.

Proper?

You don't know what proper is. If you think RO1 is realistic, you're wrong. Even TWI admitted this. You can deny it all you want if it helps make you feel better, but it's true.

 

[Herne]

So what you're saying is when the game is less realistic, it's better for you? How does that make you different from the CoD players?

Not jumping on you NZ - but in what way is being a CoD player bad? I played BF/BF2/CoD4/CS/DoD/FEAR multi/CS/Veit Kong/SoF2 ect - were any in particular bad? Not really. Were individual players in all those games nasty or immature? You bet.

Saying people are "CoD" players or whatever is perhaps not constructive - there are alot of them around you know.

 

[Apex.]

SAW server i was in there yesterday NZ didn't see you though

 

[Happy_Toad]

It`s all about game design. Camping and hunting should be fun for both sides.

You camping, changing positions, pick your targets and take your time to land a good shot - you win. Its a viable tactic.

You hunting, evade shots, move faster then wind, use fullauto and spray in cqc - you win, its also a viable tactic. In theory.

For now it is impossible to move under enemy fire. No bullet deviation + no sway = 100% kill if your enemy knows what button to push. And they damn know it.
Suppression doesnt work either. Gray screen and blood pressure? No prob, my hands are made of steel. Just show your head over that wall for a couple of seconds buddy.

Looks like camping its all we got for now. Untill you move you can get some kills. You try to raise your head - you dead.

I really dont like this situation.

 

[Gaizokubanou]

This is al caused by the zoomed view, everybody has a sniper now
on the small maps. When this is gone the problem is much less.

I am always a encounter as i was in RO1. The most players
of a map keeps camping. What i say against them it stays so.

200 meter range is not sniper range.

Not jumping on you NZ - but in what way is being a CoD player bad? I played BF/BF2/CoD4/CS/DoD/FEAR multi/CS/Veit Kong/SoF2 ect - were any in particular bad? Not really. Were individual players in all those games nasty or immature? You bet.

Saying people are "CoD" players or whatever is perhaps not constructive - there are alot of them around you know.

He's comparing them to CoD players because they are claiming to be wanting something different from CoD crowd. That quote doesn't strongly imply that CoD players are bad.

 

[KarmakazeNZ]

Not jumping on you NZ - but in what way is being a CoD player bad? I played BF/BF2/CoD4/CS/DoD/FEAR multi/CS/Veit Kong/SoF2 ect - were any in particular bad? Not really. Were individual players in all those games nasty or immature? You bet.

Saying people are "CoD" players or whatever is perhaps not constructive - there are alot of them around you know.

Ah... sorry if I made it seem like I was saying that. Let me put it this way, in NZ, there is Rugby, and Touch Rugby. One is full contact the other a faster low contact variant. For a Rugby fan, Touch is just a pale imitation played for fun. To me, that is CoD.

That doesn't mean a good touch player couldn't possibly be much better at traditional rugby than me.

When I say CoD players, I simply mean the type of player that is trying to have fun, regardless of realism. They are also usually quicker thinking people. They may not have complex plans, but they select simple plans at incredible paces and put them into action effectively. That is why they beat the camp and snipers in a realistic game.

Run and gun was invented to overcome the damage done by camp and snipe, to use game terms for real world tactics. Static warfare became manoeuvre warfare because of the range, accuracy, and deadliness of modern weapons. The RO1 guys want to fight 19th Century wars on a 20th century battlefield.

They want to fight the Battle of Gettysburg at the Stalingrad Grain Elevator. CoD guys want to fight the Battle of Baghdad there. Same error different extremes.

 

[FranzVonG]

This is al caused by the zoomed view, everybody has a sniper now
on the small maps. When this is gone the problem is much less.

seriously, this thing about the zoom must be clarified once and for all: TWI must turn it off for a couple of days, then when the forums are flooded with complaints at "why a man only 200m away is only a pixel-big??? brooken!!", they can finally turn it on again.

And, btw, killing someone with a rifle 250m away it's not sniping, it's how it works... 400m, that's sniping.

 

[KarmakazeNZ]

SAW server i was in there yesterday NZ didn't see you though

We'll meet one day, either as friends or foes, and may the better or luckier man win!

 

[SweatyGremlins]

i'm very new to the game but i found three styles of play

1. camp like a boring *** sniffer
2. go assault and pwn by being a spastic
3. slowly push and work as a team

1 and 2 are the most common and suck, there are much better action shooters out there and plenty of camping in other games like Battlefield

3 is the most enjoyable but hardest to find, game really shines when people are playing it together but it's kinda rare on Aussie servers right now, dunno about you other weird people of the world

 

[KarmakazeNZ]

And, btw, killing someone with a rifle 250m away it's not sniping, it's how it works... 400m, that's sniping.

Just to be contrary... neither of them is sniping. Range has nothing to do with it

A sniper is looking to kill high value targets. He'll let 100 riflemen run by without taking a shot, but shoot the gunner. He will tell the rest of his team about the riflemen.

He can be 1000m or 10m away, as long as he can effectively suppress the targets he is assigned. This means killing them and only them. He is an important asset, he can't be wasted on scaring people or harassing dumb conscripts. Eliminate all high value targets in his area of responsibility. That's his job.

 

[KarmakazeNZ]

3 is the most enjoyable but hardest to find, game really shines when people are playing it together but it's kinda rare on Aussie servers right now, dunno about you other weird people of the world

The problem is the players, as you note. Changing the game won't make it better.