G41 Accuracy Reduction

[Panzer Jager]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but a G41 wieghs more than a G43 (unless that G43 has a ZF4 scope fitted.) The simpler mechanism of the G43 made it lighter, easier to produce, and less prone to jamming.

Also, doesn't the G43 wiegh as much as the M1 Garand? And, while the G43 is considered a late-war weapon and accuracy being poor due to production defects, wouldn't the earlier versions, which were not rushed as much, be greater in accuracy/quality compared to one made in 1945? This game doesn't feature such problems as jamming; why should there be a G43 and SVT40 with accuracy defects over the G41?

 

[Gewehr 43]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but a G41 wieghs more than a G43 (unless that G43 has a ZF4 scope fitted.) The simpler mechanism of the G43 made it lighter, easier to produce, and less prone to jamming.

Also, doesn't the G43 wiegh as much as the M1 Garand? And, while the G43 is considered a late-war weapon and accuracy being poor due to production defects, wouldn't the earlier versions, which were not rushed as much, be greater in accuracy/quality compared to one made in 1945? This game doesn't feature such problems as jamming; why should there be a G43 and SVT40 with accuracy defects over the G41?

The G43 is slightly lighter than the G41, and a little more well-balanced. The G43 and M1 are similar in weights, but I don't recall exact numbers.

Ironically, a lot of late-war G43's (actually K43's) were a bit more accurate than early G43's. Towards the end of the war, Walther (and presumably their barrel subcontractors) stopped turning down and thinning their barrels. This lead to a much more heavy, stable barrel than the earlier rifles. It causes havoc with current-day gun restorations though, as there are something like 3 different front sight base sizes floating around out there - and not one is interchangeable.

The rifle in my sig is a late-war Walther ac45 d-block. It is less than 3000 serials away from the highest recorded serial number Walther ever produced. It will out shoot my ac44 j-block (a mid-spring 1944 rifle) any day. Conclusive proof? No, but it is an interesting point.

It should be noted that while the cosmetic quality of German firearms dropped dramatically towards the end of the war, their mechanical reliability and quality did not.

 

[Floyd]

There was some poor guy in a server the other night bemoaning people using the G41. He claimed they were abusing a glitch. He called it a glitch because (I guess he felt that) the G41 was less accurate than the G43 yet it was not modeled so in the game. On and on he went about abusing a glitch and how the G41 was too accurate vs. the G43. It became painfully apparent that he was a reader and not a shooter. I doubt if he had ever fired a weapon in his life. Every one I've ever shot with open sights would could hit the black of the standard 25 yard pistol target at 150 yards with no problem (as with any firearm thats assuming I could hold it on target).

Anyway, it was truly sad. If I recall correctly, he had a Strelok (the best gun in the game, imo) and about 4 kills for the map (Kreigstadt). Give me RO's Mosin Nagant any day of the week on that map....lol. It got so bad, I finally just left the game. Poor fellow.

Floyd

 

[TT33]

In reality, a well-maintained G41 (w) has poorer accuracy than a G43, let alone an SVT40. Yet in RO, the G41 (w) has nearly perfect accuracy :S this is a mild error, ask any gun collector and they'll tell you which one can hit a target farther.

Additionally: (dont know if you guys trust Wikipedia; usually the information is decent though)

Wikipedia is utter rubbish! The Ge-41 used high quality milled parts weapon since alot of the charateristics between the Ge-41 and Ge-43 are very similar in some cases the same such the muzzle velocity, barrel length, ammuntion type, ect. I would think the extra milled parts would make the Ge-41 slightly more accurate for example Like the Mp-40 vs the Mp-38 or better yet a nice slightly more prewar weapon such as the one on my sig the Mp-34-

Thats the G41. Compare 400 m effective range to 500 m G43

More wiki rubbish Ive seen wiki even have 200m once for the Ge-43 (what do expect alot of these people who edit the site are kids or people with an agenda) anyway the effective range number I keep bumping into while reading is 600-700 meters for both rifles. Guys please dont take any WW2 related info from that site as fact its teaming with halftruths and myths if you want good hard facts there are alot of good books at your local library.

alone an SVT40

The Svt-40/38 was not a good rifle it was inaccurate ( espeically after 200 meters), had much more numerious issues than the Ge-41 that were never fully addressed and was a rare sight in the Soviet union after Barbarossa except perhaps in skilled German/Finnish hands since they captured tons of Russian weapons and were both in need to arm their troops.
It was pretty much one of those early war weapons that were a bit interresting but really took no real part in the rest of the war like the pre-war Avs-26 that was around a little bit in 1941. I kind of find it annoying to see the Svt-40 in nearly every RO map.

 

[Oldih]

Wikipedia may offer generic information about thing X, but it is very good thing to note that the information changes more often than someone's underwear and can be extremely misleading. One good example was information about Tiger that a M4 tank could penetrate it past range X (which would be impossible without some specific type of shell or very good luck), next day the value was like "it was impossible to penetrate" and the next day it was - surprise surprise - again entirely ****ed up value.

Even accurate info may not be accurate in practice, even though it has convicing theory part. Especially when it comes to general effiency of a weapon. You never know what kind of problems there might have been at the factory (if we go to some extreme examples).

 

[Gewehr 43]

The Svt-40/38 was not a good rifle it was inaccurate ( espeically after 200 meters), had much more numerious issues than the Ge-41 that were never fully addressed and was a rare sight in the Soviet union after Barbarossa except perhaps in skilled German/Finnish hands since they captured tons of Russian weapons and were both in need to arm their troops.
It was pretty much one of those early war weapons that were a bit interresting but really took no real part in the rest of the war like the pre-war Avs-26 that was around a little bit in 1941. I kind of find it annoying to see the Svt-40 in nearly every RO map.

While I agree with most of what you say (especially the wikipedia part ), I have to take issue with this. With over 2 million examples produced from 1940-1944, the SVT can hardly be considered a weapon that "took no real part" in the war. Obviously it was produced in far fewer numbers than say the K98k, or M91/30, but compare production numbers to the G41 (~100,000-120,000), G43 (~450,000-500,000), or even the MP44 family (~450,000-500,000). It's easy to see that (even taking maximum production estimates into consideration), the total production of G41's, G43's, MP43/1's, MP43's, MP44's, and StG44's was far outstripped by that of the SVT40.

The SVT is relatively simple, reliable, and fairly accurate. Even with a reasonably poor bore, the SVT is still capable of hitting a man-size target at average combat ranges.

I've only heard two real and common complaints with the SVT40. One was that it was too complex for the peasant farmers to maintain. The other was that it's stock was a bit too lightly-engineered for the 7.62x54R round and tended to crack. The former is supported by many anecdotal stories (take as you wish, though I believe them to be true), and the latter is supported by all the arsenal-repaired stocks you see around these days.

Other than that, it is a solid, simple design that's really under-appreciated. I can not comment on the quality of the SVT38 as I've never handled one, but I've been impressed with every SVT40 I've ever owned and/or fired.

 

[Panzer Jager]

There was some poor guy in a server the other night bemoaning people using the G41. He claimed they were abusing a glitch. etc

Lol. Got a laugh outta that one. Anyhow, all i'm trying to suggest is that a G43 deserves some love over the G41, or that the G41 shouldn't be available in maps such as Oddesa.

On a last note, here's a good website for information on the G43 and G41 (along with others.) Just click the G/K43 information tab.

http://www.gewehr43.com/

 

[TT33]

have to take issue with this. With over 2 million examples produced from 1940-1944, the SVT can hardly be considered a weapon that "took no real part" in the war.

Well perhaps I should have worded that better. It did take part in the war it was simply not common.

According to the Red army hand book the total production was: 1.3 million (may also count Avt-40 production) with "50,000 of the short lived sniper verisons".

1. Although they did make a good number if you tallied it up its production, its production was largely ceased in 1942 (it was started back up and ceased a few times in favor of the Mosin nagant leading to sporadic and rare distrubutions among Red army troops during 1942 and after) Later in 1943 the Avt (automatic verison) was made but only as a stop-gap to fill the demand for more submachine guns production ceased later that year.
2. The Germans and Axis allies( Finnish espeically) acquired quite a lot of Svt-40's as well as other weapons so much so they had designations such as SIGw 259(r) and even operating manuals during the Operation Barbarossa in Russia which was one of the reasons of switching production back to the Moison Nagant since most of the factories were geared to make the Moison Nagant and the Red army needed quick "rearming". This is even evident with tanks for the Soviet union.
3. During the war with Russia the 2 main weapons most massed produced of the Soviet union were the Moison Nagant (the carbine verisons as well), and the submachine guns (PPSH-41/43/PPD40). German side was pretty similar K98K, and MP40/38 as well as pre-war smgs such as the Mp-E for example.
4. When it was produced again the priority was placed heavily on the "bolt-action rifles" and sub-machine guns because they were much easier to mass produce and much cheaper as well. They were distrbuted mainly to noncommissioned officers and to certain snipers (There were a few famous snipers that used the Svt probably for propaganda purposes).

Anyway my point : When you play a game like RO for example the Svt-40 should be a weapon you see early in the war then it should be a rareity for the Russians. There should be plenty on maps without even one especially the sniper variant. Although Im quite sure I could probably make the same argument in reverse for the Ge-41 (rare in the first part of the war more prevailant later in 1944). Anyway really all semi-autos should be some what rare WW2 was pretty much for the Ost-front anyway a bolt-action and sub-machine gun war.

Well as for issues for the Svt there are lot: Here are some complaints from russian snipers and soliders:
1. It was found in testing that a 10 to 15 cm discrepancy was evident in patterns fired at 100 meters.
2. It did not respond well to extremely cold environments .
3. The weapon was found to wear out very quickly.
4. Difficult to maintain due apparently its very hard to clean in the field.
5. it was considered to be too complex by the common russian solider
6. ect.Theres a lot more but im too bleary eyed and tired to hunt them down anyway I think you get the idea.

According to front-line soldiers who used this weapon, it was considerably inferior to the 1891/30 rifle when it came to accuracy over a range of more than 200 m. Its pronounced muzzle flash during firing gave away the position of the sniper (caused by the fact that the SVT's barrel was 100 mm shorter than that of the Mosin rifle). When fired the SVT had time lags, which made it impossible for the sniper to fire the second shot at the target.

All these are from a bunch of sources most from these two from:The Red army hand book 1939-1945 by Steven J Zaloga and Leland S Ness

and
WEAPONS USED BY SOVIET SNIPERS SERGEY
MONETCHIKOV Translated by Paul Tamony​

 

[consript alexi]

I doubt if he had ever fired a weapon in his life.
Anyway, it was truly sad. If I recall correctly, he had a Strelok (the best gun in the game, imo) and about 4 kills for the map (Kreigstadt). Give me RO's Mosin Nagant any day of the week on that map....lol. It got so bad, I finally just left the game. Poor fellow.

Floyd

we own many guns and ive shotten a majority of them (among them is a Karbiner 98). About me doing so horrible on kreigstadt was because i wasnt doing so good that day, i often pick off the MG guys before they can get more than 10 people.

EDIT: and BTW srry for ruining your gaming experience on the server, i was in kind of a bad mood that day.