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Full body awareness

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#42
Murphy said:
Why do you think that it would fix these problems? Maybe it could fix the helmetsniper problem, but it could be fixed without bodyawareness too.

It has nothing to do with people sticking into walls though.
Just play a thirdperson game and watch how easy it is to get certain bodyparts into walls.
In Jedi Knight 2 for example the lightsabe sticks into walls easily but they covered it up as a "feature" rahter than a bug by adding cool "wallburning" effects.
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Becouse you actually could not see through wall anymore. Now in current game there is two separate models which aren't properly synchoronized, becouse otherwise you could not see through wall and aim at same time. If your weapon is going through wall, you would lost weapon sights completely. Maybe you could shoot but not snipe long ranges anymore, so clipping would be useless. Same problem with leaning you would be looking wall not target if your weapon is clipping through wall. And model looking at sky while shooting target would be fixed also, becouse then you would not see target anymore if your model is looking up. All these seeing through wall and wrong 3rd person model out of synch problems would be fixed.
 
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#43
Armed Assault is an excellent example of how full body awareness CAN be accomplished in a large scale multiplayer game. So to the people that say it'll bog down your machine: think again. Alright alright, Armed Assault runs like **** currently, but it's definately another step into the right direction. And I do think it will be standard in realistic war simulations within a couple of years from now. It's not just an eyecandy thing!

It increases immersion DRAMATICALLY, and that alone is a fine reason to implement it.

Dslyecxi also wrote a couple of paragraphs about it:

True first person
What "true first person" means is that the in-game 'camera' is placed in the head of your character's in-game model, such that you see exactly what you should see, to the extent that you can look down to see your arms, legs, weapon, et cetera, and your character's animations and the movement of your view corresponds precisely to what your character appears to be doing. There is no separate set of animations being played only for you - what you see yourself doing is what everyone else sees you doing. True first person is without question the preferred way to model any serious tactical or wargame. Prime examples of it can be found in Operation Flashpoint, Raven Shield, and the upcoming Brothers in Arms 3: Hell's Highway.

One interesting side effect of true first-person is an increased feeling of depth when looking around. In most games, the camera spins on an axis and you get a very stable view of the world when shifting your view around. In a true first-person game, the camera is in the eyes of the player model, which are generally forward, and thus when looking around, turning, et cetera, the world subtly shifts in a fashion that replicates real-world head movements. Your eyes move in a 3d space, and thus your surroundings shift ever so slightly due to that movement. It's a very subtle effect, but it has an immense impact on immersion.
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From http://dslyecxi.com/bestoftactical.html

I don't know, the "floating camera on an axis" is getting kind of old-fashioned now. It has been in use since the Wolfenstein 3D and Doom days. Time to move onto better, more realistic things.

EDIT: the only reason I can think of why it should not yet be implemented currently is that the animations and gun models in first person view probably wouldn't look as good as they do now in Ostfront.
 
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#44
Nimsky said:
Armed Assault is an excellent example of how full body awareness CAN be accomplished in a large scale multiplayer game. So to the people that say it'll bog down your machine: think again. Alright alright, Armed Assault runs like **** currently,[...]
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Sarcasm at its best...

Did you notice how Halflife 2s faces look better than Doom1 faces? Crazy isn
 
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#45
SgtH3nry3 said:
Well, I ment the walking/sprinting first-person animation lacks the damping in the knee (vertical bobbing and bobbing back and forth)Hmm, I haven't thought of serverload really. :pTrue, but it has more advantages (and of course also disadvantages) than that.True, but clip-debugging (which would require inverse kinematics) would be easier to implement with full body awareness.

If it really is impossible or performance-unfeasible to do, well. Don't you dare forget it when making RO2! :D
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Performance isn't going to drop a bit, it is contrary becouse 3rd person model has lower polys than in current 1st person view models. You can test performance for yourself, have you guys played in 3rd person view in practise mode?
 
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#47
I'm not sure why some of you are so against it. Body awareness is great. It seems that "performance hit" is why some people are against it.

That's why it it'll be standard in a few years from now. :D

It would also be useful for weapon collision, by the way.

I wonder how good first-person animations for ArmA look like by the way? Does that game take a big performance hit if there are many units on screen? Judging the videos I've seen of the game the full body awareness looks pretty good in ArmA, but I wonder if it takes a big performance hit in a multiplayer game.
 
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#49
Yeah you're right (damn, you're quick:p).

SheepDip said:
if you have full body awareness you need to render everything for everyone. Everyones weapon, everyones ammo belt, everyone grenades. And they need to be of reasonable detail. Other players will be able to look at your stuff exactly the same as you.

You will either take a performance hit, or the game will get ugly.
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Surely it shouldn't require too much memory / processor power to calculate how much grenades a person has left, and change the numbers of grenades on the third person model according to that information?

Code: 
grenadesonbody = <fullgrenadeloadout> minus <numberofgrenadesthrown>; 
if <emptymagazine> then remove <magazine> from <body>;
if <bullet> collisionwith <body> then add <blood> to <body>;
There, done!:p
 
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#50
With true full body awareness (like in operation flashpoint) first and third person are 1. The camera moves between.
Therefore, the weapon model you have infront of yourself is the one someone standing right next to you sees.

Look at the STG from first person, then look at it from third person, or lying on the floor.
These models would be the same model. There are staggering differences currently in the complexity of animation, level of detail, and texturing.

Also, if you look at a RO player from the third person, look at the detail on the hands. They are certainly no where near as detailed as the ones seen in the first person view. Again, these would be the same.

Why do you think that Operation flashpoint actually features no reloading? It's merely an animation that mimics the actions of someone reloading accompanied by a sound.

Unless you're thinking of basically adding to the weapon/arms we have already to include lower torso and legs etc and using simple procedures like the one you've said above to show the actual nades on body/ammo pouches etc etc
 
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#54
There is no need to change bitmap ironsight. I think in OFP there is also bitmap iron sight. Body awereness is only helpfull for seamless synchronization of 1st and 3rd person views and 3d-models, becouse synchronization in RO has some problems. Synchronization is easier to make becouse you don't need 1st person animations and models anymore. Body awereness adds new features also, I hope we can see it in RO2.
 
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#55
F.E.A.R. tried to do a half-decent job on 1st person body awareness, but you could only see your legs only when you looked down (suggesting bending at waist) but saw them from straight above (suggesting bending at neck)
To work properly you would have to pitch from the neck and yaw side to side independently from the rest of the body, which would make controls more complicated.( You would phaps need a toggle between mouselooking with head only and traditional mouselook that rotates body.)
I imagine the foreshortening of the body and proximity to our 'eyes' would require a very high quality body model for the effect to look good.
More i think about it the further off i imagine this experience to be in FPS - UT2k7? Not sure.
There are said to be 'inexpensive' clever tricks to make our 1st person enviroments look richer but this seems like it will take a lot of work to create and power to run.
 
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#56
I think the only realistic implementation of this would be what someone else suggested in another thread:

Move the point of view to the right eye of the avatar.

The rest of the Total Body Awareness, or NAMBLA, won't be happening in RO, maybe not even in RO2, so don't get your hopes up. Tripwire isn't always predictable in what they choose to prioritize.
 
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#59
Nimsky said:
Yeah you're right (damn, you're quick:p).



Surely it shouldn't require too much memory / processor power to calculate how much grenades a person has left, and change the numbers of grenades on the third person model according to that information?

Code: 
grenadesonbody = <fullgrenadeloadout> minus <numberofgrenadesthrown>; 
if <emptymagazine> then remove <magazine> from <body>;
if <bullet> collisionwith <body> then add <blood> to <body>;
There, done!:p
Click to expand...

Because you now have to render that change dynamically instead of a standard body model and a weapon. You have to model a side arm, main ammo, 2nd ammo, PF, satchels, different types of nades and move all these objects in sync with the main body object.
 
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#60
ok...wait. let me get this str8. the devs are implementing titties and booze as part of the new weaponry load-out? just when i thought RO was getting boring! the new "whore" class of soldier i hear has titties as standard issue, but depending on which side you are on the drink is either beer or vodka. i think is a good move for TW to improve moral for the troops, and perhaps persuade more minors to play. i will put out the casting call for player models as soon as i accept samples from the booze suppliers. that is all
 
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