Indeed. No EA = later initial release date. Its as simple as that. Then loads of time tweaking and balancing stuff to get it "perfect".
Frustrated by the lack of content and patches
- Thread starter Yogzula
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Indeed. No EA = later initial release date. Its as simple as that. Then loads of time tweaking and balancing stuff to get it "perfect".
Okay, I guess I'll throw down my 2 pennies here lol.
Not sure what you're talking about with the trickle method comparison. Do you mean they could have released EA with 2 maps and 2 perks and then trickled out 2 more maps and 2 perks somewhere between now and the content update to give the illusion of quick content? It isn't something new with developers that's for sure, but I think if you halved the EA content you'd get half the sales and half the good first impressions. When you know what the endgame content is going to be from the Devs own mouths that would never have flied. Would have taken a lot of effort to keep ones mouth shut at a critical time where you need to get the word out.
I actually thought they were holding back content the way TWI was talking from the very day KF2 was announced to the day Early Access started. I figured that would make sense and why they weren't releasing all the perks because it really was about testing at this point for them. Thanks to WWAUT and the Dev Day's graphs we can see that was completely wrong. Much was still left to be created or even worked on.
Listen, TWI is doing their thing and thanks to Steam Summer Sale my life is a bit easier, but I'm not going to make it all a pity party for them. Fans, customers, and prospective buyers have legitimate claims and many also take the conversation into the negative for no damn reason other than they want to feel as if their voice is heard in an individual thread vs a thread with 100+ replies. Annoying as it is, can't write them off. Lets not forget the veil of secrecy for the year between KF2's announcement and EA besides showing mostly the same thing over and over in new ways and fueling speculation and the rumor mill with phrasing that was not appropriate.
TWI is far from perfect, like the community, but I think it's best we hold off taking sides until the dust has cleared. On one end people KNEW, or damn well should've known, what they were getting themselves into. It was hammered in relentlessly to the community. On the other hand TWI knew or damn well should have known what they were getting themselves into going Early Access. Nobody should really be surprised at this point.
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i agree with you bison, like you too i sort assumed when they pre to early stages of early access that from the sounds of it, they had stuff developed and were just holding it back to do finishing touches on it. Like you said also its clear that this is not the case (unless for some reason they decided to tackle content they had not yet started and decided to release that before some stuff they had already started).
Idk we all want the dlc to be complete and polished when it releases, but were also all (including the devs) that things start to pick up in content creating time. I have no doubt tripwire is putting 100% into this, but unless something changes and tripwire allocate more resources to this then we can expect content to come out about as quickly then it is now, which is kinda a bummer.
Idk we all want the dlc to be complete and polished when it releases, but were also all (including the devs) that things start to pick up in content creating time. I have no doubt tripwire is putting 100% into this, but unless something changes and tripwire allocate more resources to this then we can expect content to come out about as quickly then it is now, which is kinda a bummer.
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I kinda agree with holding back content just for a little bit to give an illusion if frequent updating. Just for a few weeks. I mean as long as the illusion is intact, there's not too much harm in it, the content will be released very shortly anyways.
I mean I've always assumed that when a bunch of stuff is released, the next update is already about 80% done, so how long can it take for a new update? Few weeks, maybe a month if the devs are really taking their time.
I guess it doesn't work like that around here.
I mean I've always assumed that when a bunch of stuff is released, the next update is already about 80% done, so how long can it take for a new update? Few weeks, maybe a month if the devs are really taking their time.
I guess it doesn't work like that around here.
The new CoD game will have an awesome zombie mode and it will be released before KF2. So why don't you all wait for that game instead of playing a dead game and complaining? I haven't touched KF2 in 2.5 months and since then there's only been one new map added, but since none of my friends play anymore I haven't bothered to try it. The game is too incomplete right now, hopefully more perks are added before all the great games are released this autumn.
dude, if you think twi is being shady about ea, u better go back to the steam store for reference to what **** ea games usually are. we got a good demo by comparison
I subscribed to an old MMO I played once, got it for the month, perfect really as they are designed to suck up your time and keep you hooked. Not usually my thing but I'm having fun with it. TWI should take as long as they want - Their advantage is not having big publishers taking over their work which I love. I know many of you hate how big publishers do that also, as it can potentially butcher said game.
But you have to leave them to it! They have gone through the trouble of standing on their own two feet and making it how they want, the worst thing that could happen is then having the community (which I know understands how a publisher/producer can mess with a game) basically fulfil the same badgering role.
Thank goodness they are not contractually obligated to fit your schedules or we'd be stuck with a rushed product made by people who have had enough!
But you have to leave them to it! They have gone through the trouble of standing on their own two feet and making it how they want, the worst thing that could happen is then having the community (which I know understands how a publisher/producer can mess with a game) basically fulfil the same badgering role.
Thank goodness they are not contractually obligated to fit your schedules or we'd be stuck with a rushed product made by people who have had enough!
Indeed.
TWI not having a stupid publisher to answer to allows them to tweak and polish KF2 to perfection. If they were on a deadline, perhaps the new tweaked Beserker that we'll see soon may never have happened. If they had to give in to publisher pressure after all the whining of no content, we could be seeing maps that were poorly optimized and extremely buggy patches. If people can't wait two months for more content for a game that's stated as not being complete, they've got more serious issues to deal with than a EA game not being what they expected.
This is an EA game, it's meant to help TWI find bugs with a small amount of starting content so they can understand what players tend to do the most in games, how they can tweak and balance weapons and perks if they need to, etc. They're doing this for us, they're making sure we get the best game possible and some people really need to understand that.
Plus ,there are hundreds of other games... Just play something else to keep yourself busy until the next update !
(And yes ,Tripwire is probably one of my favourite company in the video game industry just for these particular reasons)
(And yes ,Tripwire is probably one of my favourite company in the video game industry just for these particular reasons)
Yeah, it's like, I'm upset with how slow it's been myself. I honestly thought more of the game had been done. But lol there's no point in complaining about that. I just don't play anymore. Like, it amuses me when ppl are like, man when I started there were 20000 players playing, and now there's only 2000. It's like, yeah, if you hadn't mentioned it, TWI totally wouldn't have noticed, cause I'm sure they're oblivious to that.
So, been filling my time up with WiiU games
[inb4 pc master race bull]
So, been filling my time up with WiiU games
[inb4 pc master race bull]No.
First off, what they are doing is potentially bad for us, them, and everyone involved. Because they launched the game with minimal features and haven't updated it substantially for months, it is quickly being forgotten and left behind. People are getting tired of it. I mean, the amount of content included at launch was staggeringly low. Player fatigue sets in. When it does launch. new potentially purchasers remember hearing the lukewarm comments about the early version, while people who own may already be tired of it. Keep in mind, unless they are developing a lot of things in parallel, we aren't getting full release for another year. That's from now, not the EA launch.
Secondly, this is by and large been a really poorly handled EA imo. TWI wanted to show "EA done right" but it has been the opposite imo. I can be down to help work the kinks out of a game. Or fine tune it even. But... we aren't involved in that process really. Look at Berserker's changes, that's being play tested to perfection internally before release. We aren't helping shape the game really, except in the loosest "work on this thing, it sucks" "okay cool, we will have something for that in 3 months and you can give us more feedback". The back and forth is shockingly low. The community can't really give much feedback with such a low amount of content.
It fact, their perfectionism really indicates, to me, they should never have done an EA game. An EA, like a beta, means you'll accept things that aren't finished. That means both the game and the individual aspects of it. The model for a gun doesn't have to be perfect, the animation can be wonky and unfinished in parts, you could even be using placeholders for sounds in a lot of places and it'd be understandable. If the community is there to help perfect the game.... we don't need to be given perfect content. If we are helping playtest, then maps can have bugs in the before shipping.
Maybe they have perfectly good reasons to be devoting time to recording new speech lines and modeling new characters rather than finalizing more important content like models/sounds/animations for guns, to get actual game changing content. Maybe they have some sort of parallel development, which is why we are stuck waiting for a rebalanced perk and two new ones in an update, rather than having that content spread out. The thing is, that would be useful information to communicate, not pointless development charts that are quite literally a graphical version of "no, we are working on stuff, trust us!"
This is, by far, one of the worst EA I've been a part of. I simply don't see any reason for it to be EA. They aren't gathering feedback in any useful amount, the game isn't finished enough for me to actually be glad to own it in it's current state, it will hurt the game long term due to driving off potential players, they spend time on things that absolutely do not need to be a priority right now(Anton comes to mind).
TL;DR What they are doing is not helping quality, or player satisfaction, or ensuring longevity, or indeed doing anything good for anyone involved. Also, the next time someone suggests adding a new character rather than working on perks/weapons/enemies for this content starved game, shoot them.
Sorry dude, but you probably haven't been involved a lot of EA if you state that this is the worst one
I dare you to go and buy Interstellar Marines, or 7 days to die, or the mother of them all DAYZ STAND ALONE ... I have all of those games and Killing Floor 1 and 2 and I have about 200 hours in Killing floor 2 and if you think that slow and bigger updates that are stable and playable is bad, then you should feel bad.
Most Early Access games break more and more with every update. Espcially Alpha games that are still unoptimised and every single piece of data added to the game makes it worse and worse, and worse, and even worse. I can't count the times DayZ had a breakdown of the master server (battleye) and no one could play it or it is swarmed with cheaters and unplayable.
Go drink a cold glass of water, put your post into a text to speech converter and just listen to what you have written. Then you will understand how ridiculous and stupid you sound to others when they read your rant, or like me ... don't read it.
You know steam gives refunds and look at every refund request personally, so if you break their hearts with your wall of text, and they decide that you are legible - you can get your money back - although I highly doubt that. Or you can find a random person and "family share" your game - this way you will do something good for the society and stop ranting in the forum.
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I have a proposal! Mostly unfinished perks and weapons cannot be tested publicly I understand.
But can we have access to maps that are gameplay wise... "finished"? As in the collision stuffs been worked out and some gameplay ideas of it thrown around, then we can test it out with the 4 released perks already?
Idea isn't new, new Unreal Tournament is going through map design like this in their Pre-Alpha builds which is also public access (you need a registrable free account though).
But can we have access to maps that are gameplay wise... "finished"? As in the collision stuffs been worked out and some gameplay ideas of it thrown around, then we can test it out with the 4 released perks already?
Idea isn't new, new Unreal Tournament is going through map design like this in their Pre-Alpha builds which is also public access (you need a registrable free account though).
Sorry dude, but you probably haven't been involved a lot of EA if you state that this is the worst one
I dare you to go and buy Interstellar Marines, or 7 days to die, or the mother of them all DAYZ STAND ALONE ... I have all of those games and Killing Floor 1 and 2 and I have about 200 hours in Killing floor 2 and if you think that slow and bigger updates that are stable and playable is bad, then you should feel bad.
A fair number actually. Now, they are one step ahead of games which were cash grabs and were abandoned to die. So yeah, they aren't dayz. That's not exactly a difficult task.
Okay, so rather than pointing out why I think they've done a very poor job with EA in the past three months, I should just never play the game again? That's idiotic. I can't really give any new feedback on the game, since really the community ran out of feedback to give 2 months ago and we've just been repeating ourselves since. so i might as well give feedback on the handling of EA.
Let me give an example of a good EA: Nuclear Throne. When i first got the game, the menu was place holder dev console things and almost had no GUI, a lot of the artwork for perks was literally hand drawn in paint and placeholder, and the game had numerous glitches. The focused on expanding gameplay, fixing bugs, and only recently have been starting work on the finishing touches, like making it look really pretty, fixing up the UI, etc.
That's what I expected. Content and bug fixes first, with a lot of finishing touches put on things later. Why on earth has it taken 3+ months to give us a new variation of berserker to try? Why is the berserker still undergoing more internal testing for balance? Why are 7 guns and 2 perks about to drop at once? It makes no sense to me, early access means that, access to unfinished content. Because, if you actually want feedback trying to finalize everything before putting it out there isn't smart. It creates a reluctance to act on community feedback, since so much time was already invested.
But yeah, you only get one launch, one chance to make a first impression. KF2 was subpar as launch and the follow up ahs been nonexistent. I hope it doesn't hurt it once the game is actually finished. But I think it is. A year ago, KF1 could still pull 3000-4000 people a day. Currently, KF2 is struggling to consistently get 2000. That's a 3 month old game vs something that was 5 years old at the time.
People like you who ask questions like "Sure this isn't done, but can you push out the 20% that is?"
If they had to constantly stop development to push a bunch of mini patches out to us, it would take longer in total to get everything than if they just do it all at once. Plus this way there's also much more to explore and learn and keep you playing each time a mega-update comes out.
How many Early Access titles have you played? I've played a crap-ton and none of them even come close to the quality of KF2. Sure it isn't brimming with content but with the combined release of the SDK, the user generated content has kept me interested in the game. Also, when I'm not playing KF2, i'm playing other games.
With the regular WWAUT updates and developer interaction with the community, i'm sure things will soon come together.
Of course these are only my personal views.
When are we getting Rachel Clamely?
Anyways back on point about your views on how TWI is handling this game poorly as an early access:
Base game was released with 4 perks and 3 maps, nothing was broken for me. Everything was playable, no crashes, no bugs (aside from stuff I've video'd on). Every AI has a variety of attacks, parryable/non-parryable attacks, status debuffs that KF1 didn't have (sedate, emp). Every AI has weaknesses and strength to certain damage types. Hans has a fantastic mode change and took the community some time to figure out his whole mechanic.
v1008 Brought in one new map along with some fixes and guess what? The map is fully playable, Zeds have no pathing issue, SDK gets updated with the new gfx/tilesets and fixes some issues with perk skills. I still don't crash at all.
WWAUT posts keep us informed about what to look forward to and considering how smooth v1008's single content went after a month. I can imagine we'll get the same calibur after 3 months (rough estimate) considering that's 3 new maps, 2 new perks and 1 perk rework.
This is considering that other EA titles I've played was a buggy mess and oftentimes gamebreaking glitches were never fixed. Killing Floor 2 on the other hand is a fully playable title.
If people are already complaining about how this game has lack of content then either go play something else in the meantime or just quit because additions of new maps + perks will keep you occupied for one game per map (assuming less than 30 minutes) and you'll be right back at square one complaining about lack of content again.
Quite a few. Some well handled ones: Nuclear throne, the forest, and besiege come to mind. Nuclear throne and the forest both have fairly consistent updates, nuclear throne about twice a month, the forest each month, not counting hotfixes. Besiege is a bit slower, about 2 months for a major update, with a minor each month but they are in the process of expanding their staff.
So I see many games that are able to put out updates at a semi regular interval, games that already have more content and probably don't need to put them out as badly. Sure, the games are simpler in many respects, but the staff is smaller as well.
The WWAUT actually worry me far more than anything else. It has given me enough knowledge of the company and how they function to question why they are doing an EA, at least while still using development techniques they have for non EA titles.
Hypothetically it shouldn't not that badly. They have internal builds for testing, and porting them over, while time consuming, isn't going to delay all other work for weeks on end.
Furthermore, the idea behind it is to improve quality and save time long term, by getting feedback gradually. Again, this is the entire purpose of early access, to get feedback during development. You get external feedback as you change and implement things. Trying to finalize things before shipping them out defeats the purpose of early access and actually discourages the devs from taking feedback from players, they may have already invested extra work in features players want overhauled.
Let us say hypothetically the new firebug perk is similar to the berserker in that it ends up needing major overhauls (to the point of absically being fully redesigned). The time internally spent testing, tweaking, and fixing is thus somewhat redundant. If the perk had been shipped out when it was still rough, they might realize certain avenues weren't worth pursuing based on community feedback. For an example of what this could mean: with berserker, they might have saved time by not trying to balance damage resistance that scales as health drops.
A fairly reasonable stream of small updates only slows them down if they don't plan to listen to community feedback in the first place. Otherwise, getting feedback before continuing can actually end up saving time. A monthly update is hardly going to slow them down immeasurably.
This.
Guys who don't understand what EA usually should look up some vids by Jim Sterling. He shows what Sh*t EA games almost always actually are.
Also, aren't there like 18 entries into the BananaGaming contest so far? Come August 25th or w/e, we'll have 3 maps that will stand out as something great, with 15 more maps that should at least be playable.
Some servers's are Vanilla only servers that play only dafault maps, some others play *every* custom map, even complete sh*t ones like Whitehouse.
I'd like for some custom maps to make their way into the base game, or have some sort of TWI seal of approval in an official list made by them, or something like that.
Just a thread like "TWI recommended maps" would be nice.
It's interesting... while TWI is responsible for the base game, the mapping content is almost being developed collaberately between the developers and modders, as far as map content by the date of the actual completion of this game is concerned.
Being "tired" of lack of content in an early access game is just stupid. Bug-fixes are the major changes that will happen for a long period of time, and new content will be realeased slowly, so that it is nice and polished.
Hopefully this game doesn't make the so-called "early access" business like many other games, where they simply release an unfinished game and call it "early-access" without EVER making a full version. That is my only fear really, because thats what the gaming industry turned into, because its more money in less time.
Hopefully this game doesn't make the so-called "early access" business like many other games, where they simply release an unfinished game and call it "early-access" without EVER making a full version. That is my only fear really, because thats what the gaming industry turned into, because its more money in less time.
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