Fragmentation (offensive vs defensive grenades)

[barakas]

First, the questions:

• Will fragmentation grenades be ballistically modelled differently to explosive only grenades?
  
• Will there be more than type of grenade per side?

Now, suggestions.

I know theres probably balancing issues as to why RO:OST had the F1 and the Model 24 behave pretty much the same, but in reality they worked alot differently.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splittering

Basically, an Offensive grenades blast radius does not exceed its thrown distance, so it can be thrown safely in open ground, and is more lethal indoors than outdoors, since the explosive blast is contained.

Defensive grenades have a fragmentation radius larger than the thrown distance, which means its dangerous to throw it in the open without cover.

Having actually fragments of nade modelled, instead of an even blast radius would be awesome. especially if there was realistic penetration/ballistic models, which means players could use realistic tactics to avoid frag blasts.

Also, frag nades would work differently on groups of soldiers, since soldiers will absorb pieces of metal.

To balance offensive vs defensive nades, there would have to be nade variations for both sides. Here's the shortlist.

German Nades:
Model 24 (offensive/defensive grenade) - defensive with frag jacket.
Model 39 (offensive only till 1944)
Model 43 (offensive/defensive grenade) - not sure if it was around in stalingrad.

Russian Nades:
Model 1914 (offensive/defensive) - frag sleeve optional
Model 1917 Gas Grenade
RG-42 (offensive only)- can't find any record of frag sleeves.
RGD-33 (offensive/defensive grenade) - frag sleeve optional
F1 (offensive only)


It could make a nice touch for "elite" assault classes to have the option to jacket or unjacket their grenades in loadout.

Obviously all these nades wouldn't make it in the game, so I think the coolest to add would be the 1917 gas grenade (used for clearing bunkers/buildings, could use altered smoke grenade effects), optional jackets for the M24, and an offensive grenade for the russians for balancing (rg-42 or RGD-33.)

Also, the Model 39 was sometimes equpped with a 1 second/instant fuse for booby trapping, which would be cool for assault classes to carry and explode unwitting Soviets, but totally impractical for gameplay.

Haven't included any of the Anti-Tank grenades, as I've heard Tripwire are putting at least one in. Bundled Model 43 nades would make a cool anti-vehicle weapon though.

Any other thoughts on offensive/defensive nades and nade variation welcome.

 

[Xendance]

I think grenade fragments have been modeled in the game since the mod days.

 

[Mormegil]

I think grenade fragments have been modeled in the game since the mod days.

More specifically, the Soviet grenades are modeled with fragments (which explains why sometimes you get killed far away, and not get killed closer), while the German grenades are modeled as concussion types.

 

[Lucan946]

Yup, I'm pretty sure that they are. You can't see it so clearly in RO. STALKER: SHoC has a great representation of this (every fragment is represented when you set off a F-1 grenade)

 

[Xendance]

Yup, I'm pretty sure that they are. You can't see it so clearly in RO. STALKER: SHoC has a great representation of this (every fragment is represented when you set off a F-1 grenade)

The glowing orbs in Stalker are rather funny. In real life the fragments are invisible to a human eye.

 

[Lucan946]

The glowing orbs in Stalker are rather funny. In real life the fragments are invisible to a human eye.

Err, they aren't glowing orbs. They just make little impacts of dust when they hit the wall (if they do) making them very apparent.

 

[Xendance]

Err, they aren't glowing orbs. They just make little impacts of dust when they hit the wall (if they do) making them very apparent.

Really? I must've been thinking of some other game then.

Edit: Yes, some of the fragments are glowing orbs YouTube - S.T.A.L.K.E.R Long Throw Grenades

 

[Lucan946]

Really? I must've been thinking of some other game then.

Edit: Yes, some of the fragments are glowing orbs YouTube - S.T.A.L.K.E.R Long Throw Grenades

Those are RGD-5 offensive hand grenades. They do not fragment.

 

[barakas]

More specifically, the Soviet grenades are modeled with fragments (which explains why sometimes you get killed far away, and not get killed closer), while the German grenades are modeled as concussion types.

Ah,

It always seemed to me like the M24 and F1 nades had pretty much the same blast radius in RO:OST. Never really tested it though.

Even if fragments where modelled, I've never accidental killed myself with a F1 nade, even when I've thrown it much closer than the maximum distance.

Throwing distance of F1 = 30-45m
Fragmentation radius = 30m

Although I can guess for gameplay reasons they cut down the radius.

Also it didn't seem like, with proper fragmentation, where sometimes you would be killed, and other times not, even at the same distance, depending on whether a fragment hits you or not. Or that the further you are from the detonation, the less likely fragments are to hit you.

Though I don't know how evenly fragments are dispersed with real frag nades either.

 

[Witzig]

@ Barakas

iirc in RO:OST it really helped your survival going prone vs F1 Grenades.

 

[=TaT=Rabid]

Having both offensive and defensive grenades, as well has having proper ballistic fragmentation for the defensive grenades, would be awesome.

The only downside is that defensive grenades would result in a lot more teamkills. (I'm just imagining some griefer dropping a couple of fragmentation grenades at first spawn....)

 

[barakas]

@ Barakas

iirc in RO:OST it really helped your survival going prone vs F1 Grenades.

Cool.

Thats the kind of tactical stuff I hope realistically modelling grenades brings in.

Hopefully with material penetration, there'll be even more interesting tactics (i.e., hiding behind a wooden fence isn't going to save you from fragments).

 

[Witzig]

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=10418&highlight=grenade+saving

Here an old suggestion, which was already in the game in RO:OST

so you don't have to read:
It was possible to dive on a Grenade (which was about to explode) in Ostfront to save nearby Grenades, cause the Grenade Blast and shrapnel was already modelled.