Forum Opinion on Tank Bailing Poll
- Thread starter Mormegil
- Start date
- Status
I still fail to understand the reasons of those who want to sacrifice a perfectly working system that singlehandedly eliminates all tanking problems in Ostfront (problems for we've tried to theorize how to solve for years without success).
I love the arguments about those who say that scuttling a tank and "immediately" (I wonder where did they get the respawn times from) pop up with a new one is gamey.
What about infantry and the "suicide" command? Isn't it the same thing?
Is it any less gamey to "pop up" in a place where all tankers "pop up" on foot, and make a run to see who is the first one who steal the tank that just "popped up", then leaving the rest of the tankers jumping around with the pistols waiting for more available tanks, TKing each other...
Throwing nades at the tankers who managed to "steal" the tanks so they can "steal" it back from them?.
Not being able to coordinate in the same tank with your friends because someone got inside? (this is not a rare scenario... this happens in EVERY game in tank maps).
I also can't count how many times my team lost a combined arms map because an asshat got inside my tank.
But... people want to play pistol infantry like clowns.... so lets separate tanks and tankers... lets carry all that BS to HOES.
I'm more of a tanker than infantry person, I always use a tank if the map allows me, so I say this all from a tanker's perspective: NO to bailing out
Is funny how most people that are tankers share my opinion (I know you Mormegil =P), while those who oppose it are people who mostly play infantry(as they have stated themselves).
:IS2:
I love the arguments about those who say that scuttling a tank and "immediately" (I wonder where did they get the respawn times from) pop up with a new one is gamey.
What about infantry and the "suicide" command? Isn't it the same thing?
Is it any less gamey to "pop up" in a place where all tankers "pop up" on foot, and make a run to see who is the first one who steal the tank that just "popped up", then leaving the rest of the tankers jumping around with the pistols waiting for more available tanks, TKing each other...
Throwing nades at the tankers who managed to "steal" the tanks so they can "steal" it back from them?.
Not being able to coordinate in the same tank with your friends because someone got inside? (this is not a rare scenario... this happens in EVERY game in tank maps).
I also can't count how many times my team lost a combined arms map because an asshat got inside my tank.
But... people want to play pistol infantry like clowns.... so lets separate tanks and tankers... lets carry all that BS to HOES.
I'm more of a tanker than infantry person, I always use a tank if the map allows me, so I say this all from a tanker's perspective: NO to bailing out
Is funny how most people that are tankers share my opinion (I know you Mormegil =P), while those who oppose it are people who mostly play infantry(as they have stated themselves).
:IS2:
Last edited:
hockeywarrior
FNG / Fresh Meat
No, it doesn't work fine in RO:OST. To this day I find the tanking system a major pain in the ***, regardless of whether it's in RO:OST or DH, or whatever.
You spawn, and you may or may not get a tank. More than half the team runs off with 1 man crewed tanks. Then once in battle, just before you deliver the final blow to an enemy tank, the pilot jumps out, then hides for 10 minutes. Meanwhile, back at the enemy base, a tank sits there that could have been used in the battle. And you've got tankers running around on these big maps trying to cap objectives ... it's a mess, and its unrealistic to the point of being silly.
Tripwire clearly recognized all of these issues and has taken steps to remedy them. I'm with Federov -- I don't see what all the complaints are about. I'll admit, when I first heard they were taking out the ability to bail I cried foul. But now that I've had time to think about it, I realize its a much better system than what we have in RO right now. That's right, I thought about it and changed my mind. A novel concept?
You must have taken a research methods class in college.
Like I stated previously, while that system of being locked into your tank exist in WWIIONLINE, the community in a recent pole overwhelmingly wanted the "RO system" instead. Unfortunately I can't link you to that pole since I'm no longer a paying customer, which sort of sucks.
Rage much?
Last edited:
Sheer and utter blasphemy. You will be burned at the stake for displaying such heretical ideals.
Sure those solutions would work. But another solution would be to not let tankers unmount...Solution: assign tank roles on a per tank basis. Tank roles only become active when a tank is ready to be spawned, and last only for the duration of one life. If you die, you lose your tank role until a new tank is ready to be spawned. If you bail out and fight on foot and your tank is destroyed, another player from your team can take the tank role when it becomes available, and you will lose yours if all available tanks are occupied.
All the more reason why a tanker should be ENCOURAGED not to fight on foot, but not FORCED to.
Give tankers on foot the ability to respawn (with a slight delay, so you can't respawn just before someone shoots you) without penalty.
What do you mean by asynchronisity?
Don't give tankers capping power, and they won't feel inclined to attack objectives, only to fight for their lives (until it is safe for them to respawn themselves).
Exactly. So don't give tankers cap power instead of forcing them to stay inside tanks,.
Worth the delay for TW to produce a superior product.
Go ahead and put up a new poll with the 4 choices. I'm curious myself how it breaks down.
I'm primarily a tanker and I absolutely hate it when people bail out of their tank just before I destroy their tank, denying me the kills. That's why I always refuse to bail out myself, in any game involving tanks.
But I voted yes to the ability of exiting tanks. I want to be able to exit the tank for other reasons. Primarily to take out my binoculars and try and spot other tanks, without them necessarily having to see my tank. In RO I also used this two have an extra pair of binoculars for spotting while team tanking.
I would love to see detailed exit animations, but I realise it would be a lot of work. But I hate the instant exit spawning next to your tank. If exit animations aren't a option, I would at least like to see the current animations to be used: Move around in the tank to reach the exit hatch, open it, stick your head out, add a considerable delay and "spawn" on top of the tank near the hatch.
But I voted yes to the ability of exiting tanks. I want to be able to exit the tank for other reasons. Primarily to take out my binoculars and try and spot other tanks, without them necessarily having to see my tank. In RO I also used this two have an extra pair of binoculars for spotting while team tanking.
I would love to see detailed exit animations, but I realise it would be a lot of work. But I hate the instant exit spawning next to your tank. If exit animations aren't a option, I would at least like to see the current animations to be used: Move around in the tank to reach the exit hatch, open it, stick your head out, add a considerable delay and "spawn" on top of the tank near the hatch.
Sorry I get tired of stupid circular arguments where we each just state the same things over and over again. And given that this is at least the 5th thread with this particular discussion...
TWI have made their decision. And have already stated that it may be re-visited in Beta.
My solutions are good. TW's solution is bad. Rather than coming up with a way to refine the feature, they simply remove it all together to avoid the hassle. If that's their idea of a "solution" to a problem, by the time HoS gets out of beta, there won't be a game left to play because all the potentially problematic features will just be removed.
I'm not saying lacking the ability to get out of one's tank will be game breaking, and if it turns out to be "fine" during the beta, that's probably good enough for TW not to change it. But "fine" is not "good", and it's an issue of whether TW wants a complete, quality package, or a game that's really detailed in certain aspects, but half-assed in others.
Last edited:
I too was one who initially cried foul when I found out about not being able to exit, but after hearing the arguments from both sides, I have sided overwhelmingly with the no exit.
Remember that if you can exit, you need those animations and if you can exit, then you need to be able to enter and would need an entirely new set of animations especially considering there are numerous areas you can climb onto a tank from. Not only for the tanks that will be included but for each and every one that may be included in a future update.
While I think most of us are aware that we will be able to scuttle a damaged tank, I doubt it will be something we can do instantaneously. There are probably certain damage conditions along with a delay. Hardly gamey, but like a wounded combat ineffective infantryman (they aren't always KIA in RO), there has to be a way to respawn.
I can of course repeat all the other arguments that have been already stated, but that would be unnecessary.
Perhaps we should all just wait for TWI to release the game with all these exit/enter animations for the tank. This way, instead of being able to play Red Orchestra 2 next year, at an unspecified date years down the road we could all be playing Red Orchestra Forever...
Remember that if you can exit, you need those animations and if you can exit, then you need to be able to enter and would need an entirely new set of animations especially considering there are numerous areas you can climb onto a tank from. Not only for the tanks that will be included but for each and every one that may be included in a future update.
While I think most of us are aware that we will be able to scuttle a damaged tank, I doubt it will be something we can do instantaneously. There are probably certain damage conditions along with a delay. Hardly gamey, but like a wounded combat ineffective infantryman (they aren't always KIA in RO), there has to be a way to respawn.
I can of course repeat all the other arguments that have been already stated, but that would be unnecessary.
Perhaps we should all just wait for TWI to release the game with all these exit/enter animations for the tank. This way, instead of being able to play Red Orchestra 2 next year, at an unspecified date years down the road we could all be playing Red Orchestra Forever...
My solutions are good. TW's solution is bad. Rather than coming up with a way to refine the feature, they simply remove it all together to avoid the hassle. If that's their idea of a "solution" to a problem, by the time HoS gets out of beta, there won't be a game left to play because all the potentially problematic features will just be removed.
I'm not saying lacking the ability to get out of one's tank will be game breaking, and if it turns out to be "fine" during the beta, that's probably good enough for TW not to change it. But "fine" is not "good", and it's an issue of whether TW wants a complete, quality package, or a game that's really detailed in certain aspects, but half-assed in others.
You must really, really like the idea of crawling around an open field with nothing to do but die and be a drain on your team's resources.
In all fairness, you aren't really going to notice one person missing from a battlefield with 64 players.
If you arm Panzerm
Last edited:
In all fairness all games will have exploits and RO2 will have them too. You can not get away from people that are not going to play the way you want them to play ( still a game you know so if someone decides to be a dick nothing you can do about it). We are talking about general Idea of not being able to bail out as UNREALISTIC and leading to UNREALISTIC BEHAVIOR PASTERN of play when tanker does not value his "life". For example
when you play on city maps as tanker there is always feeling that tank is going to get hit and you will have to wait for respawn, possibly miss tank, that force you to be more conservative on the move, make's you think before you act. With "locked" tank I predict we are going to see a lot of players that will just ride around in tanks like in a race car (keep in mind no Panzerfaust). At the same token with RO system there is always physiologically very pleasant feeling that you can still escape, get out . It's very natural and should not be cut out of the game.Definitely restricted but left in game. And As I said before I want o see P1V crew escaping throe hatches and angry Russian infantry men rushing to them in order to get some revenge like in this pic
We are not talking about that.
when you play on city maps as tanker there is always feeling that tank is going to get hit and you will have to wait for respawn, possibly miss tank, that force you to be more conservative on the move, make's you think before you act. With "locked" tank I predict we are going to see a lot of players that will just ride around in tanks like in a race car (keep in mind no Panzerfaust). At the same token with RO system there is always physiologically very pleasant feeling that you can still escape, get out . It's very natural and should not be cut out of the game.Definitely restricted but left in game. And As I said before I want o see P1V crew escaping throe hatches and angry Russian infantry men rushing to them in order to get some revenge like in this pic
We are not talking about that.
Bailing out tank vs tank is pretty lame. But Its different when the tanker bails out to shoot at the at infantry near his tank, I still want the option to bail out.
What if 1/3 or 1/2 of your tankers are on foot? There goes 1/3 to 1/2 of your tanks.
What if it's a combined arms map, with only 1 or 2 tanks per side?
If TWI implements functioning pistol and grenade ports, the issue of infantry sneaking up on the tanks with satchels should be less of an issue.
Yes, I'm going back a page, but I have to respond..
I'm glad you gained some enjoyment from it, but it was no more an argument than it was an attempt to change Tripwire's mind. It was neither. I made my arguments much earlier in the thread and I'm convinced Tripwire wont be adding the ability to disembark from tanks in the beta since a beta is more for squashing bugs and polishing.. not adding new things which according to some would take wayyy too much time and push the release date back. They've already decided how it's gonna be (if I'm wrong and they do add the ability to leave your tank, then great). This was just a post for those forum goers who support cutting a realistic part of the game out completely, instead of coming up with actual creative solutions. It was meant to show how knee-jerk and unoriginal, and quite frankly below the standards Tripwire has set forth to date for their games this amputation of realism really is.
TWI has so far strived for the most realistic WWII title to date and has trended toward simulation quality as opposed to just another casual video game. Taking the laziest route to solving a perceived problem by just simply cutting out what was realistically possible, at the expense of immersion and depth, not to mention introducing a host of issues on its own, doesnt seem like TWIs style to me at all.
cmdrsven said:
I'm glad you gained some enjoyment from it, but it was no more an argument than it was an attempt to change Tripwire's mind. It was neither. I made my arguments much earlier in the thread and I'm convinced Tripwire wont be adding the ability to disembark from tanks in the beta since a beta is more for squashing bugs and polishing.. not adding new things which according to some would take wayyy too much time and push the release date back. They've already decided how it's gonna be (if I'm wrong and they do add the ability to leave your tank, then great). This was just a post for those forum goers who support cutting a realistic part of the game out completely, instead of coming up with actual creative solutions. It was meant to show how knee-jerk and unoriginal, and quite frankly below the standards Tripwire has set forth to date for their games this amputation of realism really is.
TWI has so far strived for the most realistic WWII title to date and has trended toward simulation quality as opposed to just another casual video game. Taking the laziest route to solving a perceived problem by just simply cutting out what was realistically possible, at the expense of immersion and depth, not to mention introducing a host of issues on its own, doesnt seem like TWIs style to me at all.
Hey, remember that post I made where I suggested you should be able to respawn as a tanker on foot with no penalty? Yeah, I think I suggested it as a solution to this problem. Go read it.
Quoted for emphasis.
- Status