And you don't see anything wrong with 50% more lead than is realistic? That's even at 200 meters. Check out what that ratio is at 20 meters.
for those who've tried the antilag mutator
- Thread starter r5cya
- Start date
First, thanks to Mek for doing this and thanks to the servers testing it.
I've only tried it out for an hour or so on Ducky's server with a ping of about 170. I found ranged combat to be really easy. I'm not a very good marksmen at all, but with the sniper rifles, I rarely missed.
I'm sure I'm used to vanilla by now after a couple hundred hours, and I don't doubt that affects my perception of the performance, but it was almost twitch shooting. Running targets 200m+ away, no leading, no range adjustment, nothing, just point and click. It felt to easy. The CQC did feel more accurate though. Especially hip shot spray and pray with an SMG.
So for me it's a mixed bag. I definitely appreciate the work (and any mod work done by anyone) but I'm going to have to test this a lot more, in many different circumstances, before I'm sold.
I've only tried it out for an hour or so on Ducky's server with a ping of about 170. I found ranged combat to be really easy. I'm not a very good marksmen at all, but with the sniper rifles, I rarely missed.
I'm sure I'm used to vanilla by now after a couple hundred hours, and I don't doubt that affects my perception of the performance, but it was almost twitch shooting. Running targets 200m+ away, no leading, no range adjustment, nothing, just point and click. It felt to easy. The CQC did feel more accurate though. Especially hip shot spray and pray with an SMG.
So for me it's a mixed bag. I definitely appreciate the work (and any mod work done by anyone) but I'm going to have to test this a lot more, in many different circumstances, before I'm sold.
...I'm sorry for making the game work too well?
Well, I have only been able to try it briefly, and that was my initial impressions. It felt way too easy, and when I almost never miss a moving target, I can't help but think that something is wrong. It really did feel like I was cheating.
Now, first of all I will say that I would rather the current code be optimized so any lag problems are minimized. That and the fact that many players are playing on servers too far away are most of the problem.
With that said, I have no problem with this being made a mutator and I think you are doing a good service for those that want this. I still think problems may pop up later on (dying behind cover, etc) and I have always been personally in favor of the benefit of the doubt going in the target's favor. But that is me.
That's the thing, in RO2 every weapon and especially rifles are just railguns. It feels almost like playing instagib in UT. Not that they're inaccurate IRL, but in RO2 weapon handling and thus sway has been reduced to virtually none at all times. It's almost like that long rifle has no mass at all.
This "instagib" effect was offset by the weirdness of the network model and unusually high pings because of server load. Now with the client side hit detection it's exposed fully.
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I can relate to the viewpoint that the weapon handling in the game is too good. I don't agree with most of it, especially when the argument is "make it more like RO1", but opinions are like that.
However, I think we can all agree that the weapon behavior should be determined by the weapon behavior and not by an externality like the networking model. The end result might still be poorer weapon handling, but getting there in the roundabout way results in some really strange and unpleasant side-effects.
Weapon behavior is the realm of another mutator
Based on my experience with online FPS, hackers do not have any trouble finding ways to hack regardless of whether the detection is client or server side.....I always hear people touting this as a big drawback, but is it really that much worse? Hackers find ways to hack. In other games with server side detection some of the players at the very top of the biggest leagues have been found to be hacking. I think it just gives a false sense of security to pretend that server side is really doing much.
So tried this a little bit, one thing it has really really brought back, is the fear of death into the game.
Running and gunning like an idiot with an SMG no longer works anyway near as effectively. You can't just sprint blindly towards an objective, you actually have to use cover, or flanking positions to get there.
It'll be amazing when this gets whitelisted.
Thanks Mekhazzio.
Running and gunning like an idiot with an SMG no longer works anyway near as effectively. You can't just sprint blindly towards an objective, you actually have to use cover, or flanking positions to get there.
It'll be amazing when this gets whitelisted.
Thanks Mekhazzio.
I can relate to the viewpoint that the weapon handling in the game is too good. I don't agree with most of it, especially when the argument is "make it more like RO1", but opinions are like that.
However, I think we can all agree that the weapon behavior should be determined by the weapon behavior and not by an externality like the networking model. The end result might still be poorer weapon handling, but getting there in the roundabout way results in some really strange and unpleasant side-effects.
Weapon behavior is the realm of another mutator
this
I honestly didn't see much problem with the handling now that shots travel as fast as they would in real life. Putting two shots in the same place quickly is about as tough in game as it is in real life, it's just not as easy to judge distance between the two scenarios.
Most maps in RO2 don't offer 150+ meter ranges, so you won't really have trouble putting shots within maybe 6 inches or so of each other in quick succession while using a rifle. But try doing so on Red October Factory or when firing from the town hall to the church in Spartanovka. Hell the mutator's hit markers will show you better than anything.
Most maps in RO2 don't offer 150+ meter ranges, so you won't really have trouble putting shots within maybe 6 inches or so of each other in quick succession while using a rifle. But try doing so on Red October Factory or when firing from the town hall to the church in Spartanovka. Hell the mutator's hit markers will show you better than anything.
yep. you start shooting at stuff over 200 meters and you'd better have the rifle supported, as you would using the real thing. the mutator doesn't make the mosin into a "rail gun". it makes the mosin what it is at my range. an accurate, high-powered rifle, shooting bullets at almost three times the speed of sound. wait, maybe the mosin is a "rail gun"! how fast do those shoot?
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no reason not to beleive what he said. i may not agree with everything he says, but i've never known him to post anything he didn't mean.
i'm not 100% sure the mod is ready for sumbission. he might still have a few bugs to work out. only mekhazzio knows for sure.
Are you sure you're not leading the moving target? I tested this fairly heavily using the MG34. From a prone position, if I aim right at a target sprinting across my front at more than about 50m distance, I will miss. I don't have to apply the ridiculous 1m+ leads that I would need without the mutator, but I do have to apply the same kind of lead I would need if using a real weapon on the firing range.
Will try to upload a video if I can work out how...
you see now your just resorting to hyperbole and insults to support you arguments. the very things you describe have been occurring in all online games regardless of its networking model since online gaming was conceived. hell i remember when it was implemented in TFC and counterstrike, at the time i was on dial up in a rural area and had to lead much like i have to in RO2 when they changed the networking it was absolutely amazing finally i could actually aim at what i wanted to shoot instead of 5 feet in front of the target it was a game changer and i just see no reason to seemingly take a step backwards just because a few people like you cant take getting killed by a player with high ping especially when people like me were on the other end of that for years and years. now that i live in town and have high speed internet that feeling hasn't changed and i think something like this that evens the playing field should be supported by all players that like competitive gaming.
You have to realize the game you are playing now with the anti-lag mutator installed is what vanilla R02 plays like if you are on a LAN. This is exactly how the game played at the Tripwire offices when they were developing it over all those years. On a LAN with a ping of 5-10ms everything is pretty much instantaneous even with the vanilla network code.
With that said, any problems you see with twitch shooting is in turn a design choose by the developers. It just happens to be masked by a high latency connection over the net.
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so when is this mutator going to be whitelisted so some real testing can be done. Everyone is raving about this mutator yet the server running it are empty?
Finally had a chance to test this out, only populated server I could find at the time gave me a ping of around 150ms, after about 45mins or so I switched back to a 'normal' server at around 60ms and instantly noticed the change, with the mutator the frustration I usually get wasn't there, it felt right. When on 'normal' servers, even after a straight hour of playing I never really feel I've managed to get my eye in because my ping changes.
Mekhazzio, amazing job, thank you!
Mekhazzio, amazing job, thank you!