for those who've tried the antilag mutator

[Machinist]

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THIS, is what it is all about!
what's the point, if you live in central europe and have a great ping/no lag when shooting, if you have no one to play with? you have 1,000 players now, you say? bahh! not too far off, you'd be wishing you could find a full server.
i'm living on the fringes of this game (west coast u.s.) and i say it's shakey, at best, as far as player count.
THIS MUTATOR SEEMS TO MAKE ALL PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD HAVE EQUALITY IN SHOOTING! WHAT'S NOT TO LIKE ABOUT THAT?
P.S. if you don't like that, i'm sad for you ,

so a guy can join a server in europe, your on like 50-120 ping and for example a guy joins hes from japan, hes lagging like mad, 400+ ping, hes lagging, slideshowing all over the place because of delay and yet hes still playing fine because he can still manage to shoot everyone in the head because his hits are classed by what it says on his pc not the servers.

lag will always be a factor, even when we have 100000000000mb connections, even then closer people will be faster then others by a slight amount, isnt that what ping is?

i mean why isnt client side done in every single fps game/game ever if it totally fixes lag and doesnt have massive drawbacks, its like the issue of lag has been totally solved by this for the first time in history.

i mean explain to me if im being stupid or dont understand.

 

[10-78 BusterKing]

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THIS MUTATOR SEEMS TO MAKE ALL PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD HAVE EQUALITY IN SHOOTING! WHAT'S NOT TO LIKE ABOUT THAT?

Yes, and it's a lot more fun for everyone. There was so much complaining before on our TS about why they didn't hit that player when they were aiming right at him. The complaining got old for me fast and I got tired of playing the game because of it. This game is much more enjoyable now without all the bit-ching.

 

[Mike_Nomad]

so a guy can join a server in europe, your on like 50-120 ping and for example a guy joins hes from japan, hes lagging like mad, 400+ ping, hes lagging, slideshowing all over the place because of delay and yet hes still playing fine because he can still manage to shoot everyone in the head because his hits are classed by what it says on his pc not the servers.

lag will always be a factor, even when we have 100000000000mb connections, even then closer people will be faster then others by a slight amount, isnt that what ping is?

i mean why isnt client side done in every single fps game/game ever if it totally fixes lag and doesnt have massive drawbacks, its like the issue of lag has been totally solved by this for the first time in history.

i mean explain to me if im being stupid or dont understand.

You make legit concerns but one very important concern few have mentioned is the fact that cheats like aimbots, etc., are uber easy to insert in client side detection schemes.

That means we shall be forced to rely heavily upon both VAC and PB for vigilant anti-cheat protection. Especially since we are already seeing questionable activities on our servers.

If its white-listed, Admins world-wide will face a dilemma only eased by stringent ping limits and full PB and VAC settings.

 

[SnowyOak]

so a guy can join a server in europe, your on like 50-120 ping and for example a guy joins hes from japan, hes lagging like mad, 400+ ping, hes lagging, slideshowing all over the place because of delay and yet hes still playing fine because he can still manage to shoot everyone in the head because his hits are classed by what it says on his pc not the servers.

lag will always be a factor, even when we have 100000000000mb connections, even then closer people will be faster then others by a slight amount, isnt that what ping is?

i mean why isnt client side done in every single fps game/game ever if it totally fixes lag and doesnt have massive drawbacks, its like the issue of lag has been totally solved by this for the first time in history.

i mean explain to me if im being stupid or dont understand.

In this specific instance, we have a niche international community which probably amounts to a few thousand active players. They might not fill entire servers in some regions; I know the Australians have trouble with this as well as the west coast NA players. This mutator finally gives them the option to play on high ping servers with very little impact from latency.

For other larger community games, it would be a non-issue because of all the different regions being much more populated. However, for RO2 this should be considered a necessity. It DOES have drawbacks, but in this case they are massively outweighed by the benefits.

 

[Dionysos]

Yes, and it's a lot more fun for everyone. There was so much complaining before on our TS about why they didn't hit that player when they were aiming right at him. The complaining got old for me fast and I got tired of playing the game because of it. This game is much more enjoyable now without all the bit-ching.

I noticed that a lot yesterday after testing the mutator. I joined a regular server and there was constant whining about how a shot should have counted etc. Very stark contrast when you come from one extreme to the other.

 

[Machinist]

I noticed that a lot yesterday after testing the mutator. I joined a regular server and there was constant whining about how a shot should have counted etc. Very stark contrast when you come from one extreme to the other.

its great when you have a "I win button", hackers must love using hacks too as they always hit things even with massive lag.

TW and the other thousands of game developers dont do client side because lag and the limitation of play should be a connection problem based on your internet.

 

[MarioBava]

I just checked this out, playing about 4 rounds, and I have to say it looks pretty smooth. All the following comes with this caveat: I was getting around 50 ms ping on the server, which is far better than I usually get on 2Fg for example. I was told there was a German server, so I should really get on that one and compare with higher pings.

But having said that, shooting simply feels better with no dice-rolling how much to lead.

And even though I know it was a bug detection mode and you wouldn't/shouldn't get the luxury in the "final" version of the mutator, it was also kind of fun to track your bullets in the game, see how they penetrated and to see what locations you hit.

I do have concerns that client-side hit detection is supposed to make it easier to cheat, but I can't be certain that that becomes a huge problem if/until it does. Whatever can be done about that can be dealt with if (knock on wood) that time comes. If cheat vulnerability ultimately means the mutator fails because of an influx of cheaters ruining games on servers that run it, that would be a sad thing, but it doesn't break the game because this is after all only a mutator.

I was on the fence about this issue, undecided but supportive of the devs' choice.

I have to admit, the server I tried was not fully loaded, but...

Now, having had a hands on try, I can't help but jump off the fence and say the mutator seems to work really well, and philosophically I find it wholly appropriate that a game of RO2's basic identity, a game where weapon mechanics are trying to be realistic, would favor this type of hit detection in order to favor realism in shooting.

In the balance, if I ask myself which is worse: having to almost every shot lead targets fairly unpredictably at pings of 100-200 which seems to be what I can get on the most populous server, or the reliable shooting of this mutator with some higher ping players having a more equal chance at hitting me as I have to hit them? My answer is I think having to manually lead for pings is worse. It is true, I had gotten used to compensating for lag, but when you compare there is no denying: the feeling, the responsiveness of game gets even better with this mutator. We have responsive movement and animations...now we also have responsive guns!

Thanks Mekhazzio, great work. All the best.

 

[PhoenixDragon]

its great when you have a "I win button", hackers must love using hacks too as they always hit things even with massive lag.

It's pretty obvious you don't understand what a "hack" is, either. You make it sound like the game is aiming for you. What it actually does is put the high-ping players at less of a disadvantage against low-ping players. Less, but not none.

TW and the other thousands of game developers dont do client side because lag and the limitation of play should be a connection problem based on your internet.

i mean why isnt client side done in every single fps game/game ever if it totally fixes lag and doesnt have massive drawbacks

As pointed out elsewhere on the forums: It is done in the vast majority of games. If you don't know something, you shouldn't just make something up. It makes you look (more) like you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[SnowyOak]

Just to clarify, a higher ping player still needs to wait a period of time before seeing what other players are doing.

-They are still at a disadvantage in this sense as a 50ms ping player will only wait ~50 ms to get the most updated information from the server, player locations and etc, while a 300ms ping player has to wait 300ms for that same information.
-That gives the 50ms ping player a 250ms advantage in reaction time over that 300ms player, but whomever kills first on their own screen will get the points.
-The mutator is mainly meant to fix the bullet delay associated with latency by moving the hit detection to clients. It standardizes the leading players need to do in order to hit their target.

 

[Reise]

what server were you connected to at the time?

This one:
[QUOTE=*

 

[gimpy117]

Well, hipshooting also seems far more effective now that hits are registering immediately.

I really need to see this on a large scale, 32+ players, and with larger pings. The rounds I tried it with everyone had ~30ms anyway so there wasn't much to experience as a benefit besides the hit markers.

hipshooting is more effective sure, but so is aimed fire. I'm betting now, the player who has the gun up to his shoulder will more often win with the 1-2 aimed shots rather than the 5 or 6 poor spray and pray shots.

but I tried it out last night and was incredibly impressed, an MG seems like something not to run in front of now, rifles hit from range and you don't have to cower with a bolt. I don't think the devs can Ignore this one, and I hope they dont. I say either they whitelist this mod, or use this same system.

 

[Mekhazzio]

so a guy can join a server in europe, your on like 50-120 ping and for example a guy joins hes from japan, hes lagging like mad, 400+ ping, hes lagging, slideshowing all over the place because of delay and yet hes still playing fine because he can still manage to shoot everyone in the head because his hits are classed by what it says on his pc not the servers.

I'm on the west coast of the USA. Yesterday I was playing on a server in Germany that is helping to test my mutator. It was full of people connecting from all around the globe, including Brazil, Australia and some town I'd never heard of in Siberia. Some people did, in fact, have 400+ ping.

It was the best game of RO2 I've ever had.

 

[doomaxe]

This is an amazing job. I played in the 72.5.195.243:7777 server with a 250+ ping (I live in Siberia), and I barely even noticed an issue. In the servers here in Russia, I have less than a 100 ping, and it never played this well. Great work to the creator.

 

[gimpy117]

I was just in the 10-78 server....saw a guy with a [TW] in front of his name

is that a dev? if so, they are checking ti out too

 

[doomaxe]

I was just in the 10-78 server....saw a guy with a [TW] in front of his name

is that a dev? if so, they are checking ti out too

Yes. It was probably a developer.

 

[Golf33]

its great when you have a "I win button", hackers must love using hacks too as they always hit things even with massive lag.

TW and the other thousands of game developers dont do client side because lag and the limitation of play should be a connection problem based on your internet.

Can you see how ridiculous this claim is?

You are actually saying that:

• weapons in the game should not be able to hit a moving target when correctly aimed
• it should be harder to hit a moving target up close than at range
• the multiplayer game experience should be different for every player on a server
• the multiplayer game experience should be different on every server for every player
• the multiplayer game experience should be different from the single player game experience for every player

Fail. I'm genuinely astonished that you (or anyone else) would actually want to play a game like that.

 

[Golf33]

have you tried the gameplay on a server with the mutator installed?

I think you might have misread my post. And yes, I've tried servers with the mutator on, and I find it improves gameplay greatly.

Server with client-side mutator ON + 300 ping = good
Server with no mutator + 60 ping = not as good

The client-side hit detection is fantastic.

In a realistic combat game:

• Bullets should be faster than people.
• Close targets should be easier to hit than distant ones.
• Machineguns should be best employed in enfilade from a defilade position, covering a narrow arc.
• Running in the open, in view of the enemy, without covering fire should be suicide.
• A frontal bayonet charge, against a prepared enemy, without covering fire should be suicide.

The vanilla game fails against each of these points. The mutator fixes this.

 

[Remppaaja]

After short testing I must say It Felt Good!

I was hitting diagonally moving targets with mg much more. And those bolt-action rifles felt like a totally new weapon, a good weapon. Before I had real trouble hitting moving targets with scoped rifles even at ranges below 100 meters.

My ping is usually 80-160 in European servers and tested this mutator 10-78 server with 200 ping.

 

[WallyAussie]

TW and the other thousands of game developers dont do client side because lag and the limitation of play should be a connection problem based on your internet.

I had to chuckle at that, but more so at how absolutely wrong you are.

Its so incredibly ironic that at this very moment over on the Battlefield 3 forums there are players who are absolutely adamant that the hybrid style hit-detection used by that game is sub par when compared to the alternatives, and that DICE's networking staff are possibly devil spawn for even entertaining the idea of it, let alone coding it into the game. Yet, over here, we've had a community member bust his *** off to fix the plethora of issues inherent in a server-side hit-detection model. If only DICE would implement the RO2 networking model for a day. Could you even begin to imagine the about-face in opinion that would occur -- almost instantaneously -- when players realised what the reality of the alternative to the hybrid model is?

Bulltripe.

Tripwire got it gob-smackingly wrong. And they paid the price.

No wonder players flocked to BF3/MW3. The games are deviod of team work and immersion, utterly, but you can play them from anywhere in the world, to anywhere in the world, with relative ease and with few consequences weighing on your experience. Play BF3, then play vanilla RO2, and marvel at the difference in multiplayer experience (I'm talking about netcode... a comparision between the gameplay is apples to oranges -- irrelevant).

I remember the general sentiment floating around the forums about six months ago that suggested TWI will leave the community to fix their broken mess. Well, thank Christ there are still individuals around who take that to heart and are willing dedicate their own time -- for free -- so that others, like myself, can reap the benefits and finally enjoy the game in the condition that it should have been released.

Incidentally, I played about ten minutes ago on the test server with the mutator (to Germany, from Australia) and the game finally felt natural. RO Classic + Client-side Mutator will revitalise this game.






Wally

 

[SparePoerisija]

The sooner this gets whitelisted and running, the faster RO2 is saved and 100% deserving of the GOTY-multiplayer title it got.