For the sake of everyone.

[D3STRUCTION]

To keep your free weekend crowd interested and your old crowd from pulling all their hair out from the frustrations that ensue by trying to find a legit suicidal/hoe game only to find you're with 5 other people who's levels probably don't even all add up to 5. Please change the default difficulty filter to normal.

I would say beginner but I don't know, some people might be able to handle beginner at level 0 and may find it boring so normal might be a good default, but for whatever reason with it being 'any difficulty' the vast majority of free weekenders/recent purchase players always find their way into suicidal/hoe games. How is this even possible?

I'm really saying this to keep both sides sane, if people honestly join a suicidal/hoe game unknowingly then sure its fine, but they still need to be open to listen to people TRYING to tell them to leave the game and look for beginner/normal servers to help them out, they are seriously nothing but a 100% detriment to a team in suicidal/hoe, and I'd argue even hard since most hard players won't be level 6 unless achievement hunting.

The problem I find is all these new people do is either:
a) ignore your pleas completely and continue to play, die in the first few seconds, and sit there until they can play again(if the squad manages to win the round)
b) ask questions trying to figure it out and end up taking entirely too long for it to be worth it anyway
c) straight up talk **** back to you like they know what they're on about and you don't.

There's probably other options, but right now I'm writing this in sort of a frustration mode after trying to find a good hoe server for the last hour, and barely winning a suicidal game on evilsanta. We were doing fine and right on patty round a level one medic and level 4 sharpshooter join and contributed literally nothing, and one of them was one of your c options, tried to help them out but they insisted on talking ****. We had to fight a 6 man suicidal patty with 4, and I'm honestly only a level 4 zerker so we barely managed to kill the patty with chainsaws(save the hate for another time). So both of them got an achievement they in NO way deserved, especially the level one medic who took it upon himself to talk back to the 4 of us trying to help him out.

There's probably more I could write my thinking is cloudy at the moment.

Please change the default difficulty setting to beginner or normal.

Thanks.

 

[composite]

Couldn't agree more with the sentiment of this. Playing today on suicidal 5-6 players most of time with only myself and another guy levels 5 and 6, the rest would be 0-2. Fortunately the other guy and I were really patient and just kept on playing trying to talk people through the game. Mostly no one listened but we continued anyway and actually it sort of became a bit of a challenge but I could understand if other people would get very frustrated at this. This does nothing for either side of the issue.

I get that you are trying to expand the community and want to give people a chance at the game but I don't think this really helps anyone when trying to play at this difficulty with such low levels. Established players get frustrated at the impossible task and the new guys will get frustrated with... well the impossible task.

I'm not sure what the answer is, maybe there doesn't need to be one if you are not planning on doing this again, but if this turns out to be successful for sales etc and you do try again maybe free accounts are limited to Hard maximum? Not a great idea really but something should be done.

 

[hipnox]

Not to be a mood killer but, only a small percentage of the player base ever visit the forums and those playing the free weekend will probably not know of it existence before the weekend is over.

What the game could have is a screen warning you about the dificulty if you select a suicidal/HoE while your playtime/class levels are below a certain number. Something like:

WARNING
The difficulty setting for this server may be too high for you. It would be wise to practice on lower difficulty games first.
[Join] [Cancel] (x)Never show this again

 

[Undedd Jester]

Even a tooltip appearing over the browser screen would be nice

 

[D3STRUCTION]

Not to be a mood killer but, only a small percentage of the player base ever visit the forums and those playing the free weekend will probably not know of it existence before the weekend is over.

What the game could have is a screen warning you about the dificulty if you select a suicidal/HoE while your playtime/class levels are below a certain number. Something like:

WARNING
The difficulty setting for this server may be too high for you. It would be wise to practice on lower difficulty games first.
[Join] [Cancel] (x)Never show this again

I realize that, this post was meant and hoped to be seen by the Tripwire team.

I think the warning screen would be good, but they also just need to change the default difficulty in the filter to beginner/normal. At least around free weekends/big event sale type stuff.

 

[hipnox]

but they also just need to change the default difficulty in the filter to beginner/normal.

True. Normal, probably would make the most sense

 

[Gregs2k2]

Agree. Good post. I've had my server open all weekend, I even changed the skill to Normal to cater for the new guys. But my mates and I wanted a game on Suicidal, so I p/w'd the server.

 

[FrozenFireBug]

I just played with 3 oblivious unperked Commandos who had no idea what an assault rifle was.

I can't support this enough.

 

[Vintage]

It probably is a turn off for newbies when they join a hell on earth game for their first time so this is a good idea. I'm convinced that anyone who does that though is stupid. It boggles my mind when I see level 0's running around on hell on earth. Just because you are new to a game does not mean you have to be too stupid to not play on the hardest difficulty.

 

[REZ]

Just finished up 2 waves of 210+ on HoE by my lonesome.. I had to disconnect because if they dont understand after 2 waves that they wont last 15 seconds, but then they sit there and watch me clean up all 200+ zeds then gleefully join up next wave.. I can't waste time with that.

I try to be nice and tell them politely that they might be better starting with Normal or even Hard mode, cause I honestly want them to enjoy the game, but what do you do with someone who after being told they are on the highest difficulty setting with a level 0 perk proceeds to say "it's cool, I'm good at first person shooters"..


- No Pants

 

[hipnox]

I think its a stretch but...

could it be possible to add server option of "minimum allowed perk level"? As in, players cannot select perks below a certain level?

Or is that a bit too much? im just thinking out loud.

 

[Gartley]

I think its a stretch but...

could it be possible to add server option of "minimum allowed perk level"? As in, players cannot select perks below a certain level?

Or is that a bit too much? im just thinking out loud.

That's come up several times and I think it's generally held in a negative light.

To paraphrase another thread "We should favour education over exclusion" and I agree.

Having a new player join a harder servers can a major frustration. But out write denying access without clear indication as to why is a bit unfair. So I prefer the other two options, filters set to normal by default or first time pop up.

 

[HaTeMe]

We DEFINATELY NEED something to prevent new comers from joining Suicidal/HoE by accident. Wether its a tooltip, filter change, or a server side minimum level setting I dont care but something just has to be done -___-

Today alone Ive had to kick maybe 50 or so players from my server, and thats not even exaggeration. I dont want to password it either because I still want any level 5-6 players to be able to play there. I even changed my servers name to state "levels 5-6 ONLY" but they STILL keep coming in masses. Its like Im spending more time in the kick menu than in the game itself, which is extremely frustrating.

I cant imagine changing the default difficulty to be more than 5 minutes work either, of course I could be entirely wrong but theres been NO developer response for this issue dispite of this problem being around ever since these special events started. Id at least like to know if its impossible to change for some reason.

 

[Entangler]

I prefer the filter change idea. A push in the right direction that even the least perceptive player in the world can't accidentally ignore, but without forcing anyone's hand.

 

[hipnox]

I think the problem may very well be about information..

Lets go back to the day you first played KF. For me it was during a free weekend (during or after the level up update i think) so i was myself a lvl 0 noob joining random servers.

Right off the bat, the server browser is an issue to newer players.

> The default difficulty filter is "all difficulties"

> Unless you know that the colored bars at the left of a server is the difficulty setting (and not some of graphical ping indicator, which may very well be) you wont be able to tell what difficulty it is. I don't think newer players will take a look at the server info either. i know i rarely do. Some servers don't state their difficulty in their name, and sometimes they have it wrong.

> The server browser is not the best i've seen. Every time you join or try to join a server it has to refresh, which takes some time. Also, the player count in servers is usually wrong (because its refresh is slow? because it doesn't refresh player count until you hit "refresh"?) coupled with a maximum player count of 6 means you might require several tries to find a server that is not full or empty (regardless of your filter settings). This may lead newer players with little patience to just select severs until they can join one, regardless of player count, map or difficulty.

On to the game:

> On a personal note, i like my shooters in the higher difficulty. even on my first play through. its a personal thing, but others may be like me.

> Newer players have no idea of how much the difficulty escalates between difficulty settings. L4D for example is pretty easy even on hard setting. Also, the difference between "suicidal" and "hell on earth" is not intuitve. Which one's harder? How do newer players know that those 2 are not just harder than "hard" in the same fashion as "normal" vs "biginner", but also have a number of handicaps only found on those 2 difficulties?
How do they know that the leap between hard an suicidal is bigger than the one from normal to hard?

On to the leveling system

> Newer players will not understand the level system right away. To them it may very well be an indication of playtime. In most games, leveling up means unlocking new items (even cosmetic ones). Here its completely different. Here it affects how effective you are.

> KF is one of those rare online shooters where skills alone can't cut it. you NEED to be of higher level to be credit to your team in harder difficulties, yet there isn't any indication of this from the game itself.

> The difference between a lvl0 player and a lvl 6 player with the same loadout is huge, and this might strike as odd to newer players. Seeing someone do things you cannot do (stun a scrake) with the same weapon you are using, only because they are higher level is a bit odd if you ask me. after all, its the same weapon.

On to the game itself

Even after all that, the game itself has its learning curve. Than non-intuitive facts about the game that only veterans know. It's their (our) job to instruct the newer players, but there's a lot of it.

Things like

> Don't shoot a scrake unless you can kill him

> the proper way to kill a FP with zerker

> when and how SC and FP rage

> how to kill bloeats in close quarters

The list goes on... Making a mistake in one of these at later waves might result in a defense breach and ultimately game over for the whole team. Its a pretty unforgiving game after all.

yet.. after all this.. none of this is explained in the game. Nothing. not even hinted at. Do we really expect newer players to properly play the game on their first few days of gameplay? no. that would be silly.

With that said, what can we do to enforce new players to pay attentions and join servers with proper difficulty?

some ideas
>difficulty filter default to normal
>Minimum level filter
>Advising new players to play a few solo match before joining online when entering multilayer for the first time
>Warning newer players of the difficult and unforgiving nature of the game when entering multiplayer for the first time
>Have a link to the game wiki, where new players may find some useful tips
>Have the game display a message while playing a suicidal/hoe server with a lvl3 or less class (that can be toggled on/off in the menu)

just my 2 cents. I don't favor aggressive methods like auto-kick scripts or the like. That only alienates the newer players.

Still, at the end of the day, the excitement of killing the patriarch with a bunch of first timers is .....pretty sweet. Specially when you are the only lvl 6 player in the server and they actually listen to you.

it takes me back to the old days..... *stares blankly at space*

 

[ChairmanMurder[Forge]]

I prefer the filter change idea. A push in the right direction that even the least perceptive player in the world can't accidentally ignore, but without forcing anyone's hand.

This, for those reasons.


And, as Gartley said, education over exclusion.

For the past few days I've been slumming around on normal and beginner servers and giving free KF education classes. Yes, there are a lot of noobs* who don't have a clue, and refuse to get it, but there are far more newbs* who genuinely want to learn the game and don't mind that one guy with the shiny gold perk icon giving them tips. And it's not even coding-based knowledge, like what Scary posts (e.g. "it takes about 667 damage to stun a Scrake, FP takes +100% damage from pipes, etc), but just simple things, like telling them Commando is good for trash and Sharpshooter is good for bigs.

Or even simpler, like telling them they can change perks during trader time. Or what the names of the specimens are. Or what the general pros and cons of different weapons are. Stuff like that.

The way I see it, the more people playing on the free weekend who tell themselves "Gee, this is a pretty fun game, and there are friendly people on it" will convince them to spend the insane price of $5 (or $8 for the full package) to own the game, which helps out Tripwire. And getting more customers to support Tripwire is a good enough reason for me.


*I differentiate between the terms "noob" and "newb". A newb is, well, a person who's new to the game. They're not that good at it, which is to be expected, but they're willing to listen and learn. A noob is a newb who's an idiot, and refuses to leave that idiocy behind. A noob is the level 0 Firebug who saves up for an AA12, and once he dies, insists that the game sucks and never comes back.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

We DEFINATELY NEED something to prevent new comers from joining Suicidal/HoE by accident. Wether its a tooltip, filter change, or a server side minimum level setting I dont care but something just has to be done -___-

Today alone Ive had to kick maybe 50 or so players from my server, and thats not even exaggeration. I dont want to password it either because I still want any level 5-6 players to be able to play there. I even changed my servers name to state "levels 5-6 ONLY" but they STILL keep coming in masses. Its like Im spending more time in the kick menu than in the game itself, which is extremely frustrating.

I cant imagine changing the default difficulty to be more than 5 minutes work either, of course I could be entirely wrong but theres been NO developer response for this issue dispite of this problem being around ever since these special events started. Id at least like to know if its impossible to change for some reason.

LOLS I figured I would try out the server in your sig because I wanted to play some HOE. 2 level 6's 4 level 0's right now....

 

[breakmegosho]

Guys, dont waste your time trying to suggest someting to Tripwire team. They dont give a chicken ***t for you. The only thing they care about is new SALES. Think - if they update someting in the game, it will be someting obvious, to freshen up the game, to squeeze all from this old (but with great potential to be best) game, only to attract new customers. They dont need to fix bugs to do this. Why you think they make christmas and haloween specials, but NEVER fix the (many) bugs, which only a player, which already buyed the game, and played it for some time, can spot? There are super-annoying bugs, which they are perfectly aware of, and can fix them in a matter of days, but they don't do it, and what did this say for how(if) they care about their customers(guys, already buyed the game)??
You think they will pay attention to you, when there are Great bugs present from YEARS, like the impossibility of hiting the target with shotguns when at point-blank range(the shotguns, which kind of weapons are supposed to be shooted at minimum possible range, point-blank in best situation, actually, in this game they CANT hit the enemy when point-blank close to him, the shells are just going trough it), and the full mess, which is the hardest difficulty(HoE), because of the non-ballanced bersekrer perk, which is MUCH more stronger than other perks, and as result you can't NEVER EVER see a HellOnEarth game with players, with different perks from bersker, especially after the mid-waves. Playing with the main perks, such as commando/support on HoE is absolutely pointless and impossible, even for the "hardcorest" players. You just choose Berserker, choose some place on the map, far away from your team(!), and start salying, even the noobs wont face a problem this way.
So, you are thinking somebody will mind your writings here? No, only the other misled members..
IF there are no money in your suggestion, TWI won't do a ***t for you.
If you don't believe me, just look up the bug threads, and notice for how many years, the players are BEGGING tripwire to fix those HUGE bugs, which make the game unplayable/ much less enjoyable for the regular players.
They know, that with one little bug-fixing patch the game can be redone, so the players will get in ecstasy from pleasure, but they just wont get a profit from this. They are small studio, and they think only for the money- potential customers.
And now, for telling the truth, threatening their security, just notice how quickly they can act when they want, kicking me out of here and removing, then burning to ashes this message, revealing the truth.

 

[E(rik)]

Guys, dont waste your time trying to suggest someting to Tripwire team. They dont give a chicken ***t for you. The only thing they care about is new SALES. Think - if they update someting in the game, it will be someting obvious, to freshen up the game, to squeeze all from this old (but with great potential to be best) game, only to attract new customers. They dont need to fix bugs to do this. Why you think they make christmas and haloween specials, but NEVER fix the (many) bugs, which only a player, which already buyed the game, and played it for some time, can spot? There are super-annoying bugs, which they are perfectly aware of, and can fix them in a matter of days, but they don't do it, and what did this say for how(if) they care about their customers(guys, already buyed the game)??
You think they will pay attention to you, when there are Great bugs present from YEARS, like the impossibility of hiting the target with shotguns when at point-blank range(the shotguns, which kind of weapons are supposed to be shooted at minimum possible range, point-blank in best situation, actually, in this game they CANT hit the enemy when point-blank close to him, the shells are just going trough it), and the full mess, which is the hardest difficulty(HoE), because of the non-ballanced bersekrer perk, which is MUCH more stronger than other perks, and as result you can't NEVER EVER see a HellOnEarth game with players, with different perks from bersker, especially after the mid-waves. Playing with the main perks, such as commando/support on HoE is absolutely pointless and impossible, even for the "hardcorest" players. You just choose Berserker, choose some place on the map, far away from your team(!), and start salying, even the noobs wont face a problem this way.
So, you are thinking somebody will mind your writings here? No, only the other misled members..
IF there are no money in your suggestion, TWI won't do a ***t for you.
If you don't believe me, just look up the bug threads, and notice for how many years, the players are BEGGING tripwire to fix those HUGE bugs, which make the game unplayable/ much less enjoyable for the regular players.
They know, that with one little bug-fixing patch the game can be redone, so the players will get in ecstasy from pleasure, but they just wont get a profit from this. They are small studio, and they think only for the money- potential customers.
And now, for telling the truth, threatening their security, just notice how quickly they can act when they want, kicking me out of here and removing, then burning to ashes this message, revealing the truth.

Because there is so much money to be gained in giving us regular, free updates for nearly three years now.

 

[Rainydaykid]

I try to help out newbies and give them tips. I was on a sui game last night with some friends, a lvl 1 medic joins, we tell him the difficulty is too high. He is standing beside me using his 9mm, and after a few mins, I notice he isn't doing too bad. I toss him my magnum, and stand in front, a bit to the side when he is hit, explain the syringe thing, pull mine out, and heal him. Soon he is healing and shooting, and the commando on my team buys him a bullpup. It actually ended up being a pretty fun game.

I agree the default filter should be set to normal, but you will have the rare player that can handle himself on higher difficulties. The player will know if they can do this or not. I went to hard back when I got the game at lvl 2, and did fine. Was bored by 3, and went to the old sui and had no issues.