Try dealing with an MG34 set up in the now-open doorway.
You're pretty much screwed.
For the love of all things sacred....
- Thread starter agamemnon_b5
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You're pretty much screwed.
Try dealing with an MG34 set up in the now-open doorway.
You're pretty much screwed.
Assuming they actually get an MG 34 up there, the door can be flanked from the interior of the warehouse, the MG can be smoked then naded, etc. These require a bit of teamwork, but if you just have your pub-server team rush up through those doors right after they're blown in the first seconds of the map, you should hold it untill the warehouse is capped.
That's really a bad spot for the Germans to put a 34, it's too close and easily naded.
Isaak Johnson
FNG / Fresh Meat
Exactly, I've blown up dozens of Germans thinking they can block off that area of the Warehouse. They usually get blown up pretty quickly once a competent player knows a heavy MG is set up in there.
...which doesn't really matter as long as you're covering the warehouse exits. The Warehouse terrain favors the Russians, especially if they use smoke. Those PPSh's will chew up German troops at close range, so the Warehouses become a meat grinder for the Germans who already have fewer reinforcements. Better to cover the exits from the warehouses and the Assembly hall itself from long-ish range, with some assault troops in the assembly hall for what close combat you have to fight, and save your reinforcements for when you need them (IE: if they push you back to South Railyard).
You may be all rushing to say I'm wrong, but my 20 kill sprees don't lie. Love the mp40 on that map.
Here's the thing. A two to three-man defense with MP40s in that position CAN be useful because (a) they're mobile and (b) they can still produce a decent volume of fire. Plus, and perhaps more importantly, (c) they can draw troops away from actually attacking the objective. The psychological impact here is kind of like the sniper's nest in Krasnyi Oktyabr. Sure, the sniper may kill one or two guys, but you're still better off ignoring him and moving on to the objectives.
That said, all things being equal, I think a looser defense of the warehouses in favor of strong defense of north railyard and assembly hall is the way to go. If you take two SMG troopers of equal skill on either side and stick them in the warehouses, especially when filled with smoke, chances are the Russian SMGer will come out on top most of the time. Obviously some players are better than others, but the terrain favors the Russians.
That said, all things being equal, I think a looser defense of the warehouses in favor of strong defense of north railyard and assembly hall is the way to go. If you take two SMG troopers of equal skill on either side and stick them in the warehouses, especially when filled with smoke, chances are the Russian SMGer will come out on top most of the time. Obviously some players are better than others, but the terrain favors the Russians.
27. on Rakowice, when playing soviet, stop trying to team hump that perimeter defense door at round start. If your *brain* isn't smart enough to warn you one of the team sapers has probably satchel'd it, maybe you could get a clue from those little warning signs that have just popped on the upper left corner of your screen...
28. If you're playing, and suddenly realize to your greatest horror that you're short on cheetoes, and immediatly have to go downtown buying some, or something similar which will take you the next 20 minutes, ****ING DISCONNECT, especially if you're the bloody team's Sniper or COmmander
Of course, those 2 are totally fictionnous and [SIZE=-1]Any resemblence to events I might have witnessed less than 2 hours ago ingame are purely [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]coincidental[/SIZE]
28. If you're playing, and suddenly realize to your greatest horror that you're short on cheetoes, and immediatly have to go downtown buying some, or something similar which will take you the next 20 minutes, ****ING DISCONNECT, especially if you're the bloody team's Sniper or COmmander
Of course, those 2 are totally fictionnous and [SIZE=-1]Any resemblence to events I might have witnessed less than 2 hours ago ingame are purely [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]coincidental
[/SIZE]29. For the one thousandth millionth time, someone elses high ping does not cause you to lag, nor does it cause the sever to lag (at least, that's the case with Red Orchestra and IL-2 even). You've either been playing too much World of Warcraft or you're still stuck in the days of MSN Game Zone. as [RO]Ramm-Jaeger said:
[RO]Ramm-Jaeger:
"Amen to that Schneidzekk. This old wives tale is the silliest thing I have ever heard. Player with high ping WILL NOT lag out a server. Someone I know recently got banned from a server because they said he had high ping. Very high ping gives you NOTHING but a disadvantage in RO. That it.
Let me give you an analogy here. Lets say you have a fire hose spraying out water, and you have two poeple trying to catch it, one person has a large bucket, one person has a small cup. The person catching water with a small cup isn't going to make the water come out of the fire hose any slower
That is exactly how the server works. It's just going to send the packets to the clients, it doesn't care how fast they get them, it will send the packets at the same rate."
Arguring over public voice chat to kick someone because "their high ping is lagging you out" makes you look uninformed, especially if none of the 31 other people agree with you.
[RO]Ramm-Jaeger:
"Amen to that Schneidzekk. This old wives tale is the silliest thing I have ever heard. Player with high ping WILL NOT lag out a server. Someone I know recently got banned from a server because they said he had high ping. Very high ping gives you NOTHING but a disadvantage in RO. That it.
Let me give you an analogy here. Lets say you have a fire hose spraying out water, and you have two poeple trying to catch it, one person has a large bucket, one person has a small cup. The person catching water with a small cup isn't going to make the water come out of the fire hose any slower
That is exactly how the server works. It's just going to send the packets to the clients, it doesn't care how fast they get them, it will send the packets at the same rate."
Arguring over public voice chat to kick someone because "their high ping is lagging you out" makes you look uninformed, especially if none of the 31 other people agree with you.
I'd prefer to play Basovka with a team of Ottos over a team of campers though
For some reason i lol'ed at 'team of ottos'
Isaak Johnson
FNG / Fresh Meat
This is one of the main reasons why I appreciate RO so much compared to some other games that I play online, it doesn't seem to have a problem when another players ping gets a little large, and I've always enjoyed how smooth game play can be on even a full server.
But just because I dont see this issue in RO doesn't mean I would go so far as to say it doesn't happen. For example, I help my clan manage and admin a Halo server in my spare time, and I have to consistently watch for players who are sporting less than average connections. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the server can start to get a little wonky once a player with a less than average connection joins up, and it's easy to notice when things get back to normal after he leaves. Add that to the fact that I can witness the same sequence of events up to a dozen times a week, I feel confident it's not just a coincidence.
And this is all fine up to a point, but this explanation is missing the second half of the procedure. The server doesn't just send data, it also receives data too. How else do you explain how the server knows where each player is, who they damage and kill, and where they place in the scoreboard? The server HAS to get that info back for it to send that data to everyone else. Not only does the server have to manage to fill all the different cups and buckets, but it has to get water back, and then it takes that water and sends it to other buckets of other sizes, and obviously a small cup might have a little trouble keeping up with the servers demand.
Depending on how the game is coded to deal with this problem can determine if this even becomes an issue. Games like RO (and most recent games) are coded very efficiently and almost never have a problem. But other games (especially older ones) can let this lack of received data manifest itself, it could show up as the player "warping" across the battlefield, or having to aim very large distances ahead of a player to hit them, and some games will even slow themselves (and other players) down in a vain attempt to keep everyone on the same page.
Another player causing server lag may not be as commonplace today as it used to be (especially in RO), but it was never an "Old Wives Tale."
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That game is a bad example. Halo is a port from an old console game that was originally never meant to be played outside of an XBox system link. Any recoding to get it to do other wise would probably lead to a buggy online experience in regards to lag. And as it is implied in my post, older games will have lag issues, especially those that pretty much draw all of its data from the users.
Also, yes the sever must recieve data from all players, even the ones with slower connection. However, that will not cause the whole server to lag. It may cause the high pinger to warp, and it may cause his shots to register late (or not at all), but that WILL NOT cause an entire game server to lag. Just because the high pingers water hasn't reached the main bucket yet doesn't mean that the main bucket won't get my water and redistribute it via fire hose when it's supposed to. That's like saying even though I'm already seated, I can't eat my lunch because the guy in line hasn't even paid for his yet.
I'm sorry, but for today's games and servers, high pingers causing lag is a myth
Isaak Johnson
FNG / Fresh Meat
Just because a game was a console port doesn't make it any less acceptable as an example, if anything it should make the example better because it shows exactly how all coding isn't the same. Basically, I wasn't referring to the environment the code was originally made for, I was comparing how two games handle the same issue differently, and because of the way Halo was coded, the example works just as intended.
This is the way it can work, but thats also assuming that every game is created equal. Like I have already stated, some games (like RO) can handle the issue very efficiently and will have no problem supporting all the other players when Joe slow-connection joins the server. But there are many games that are still widely played today that aren't as well prepared to handle another players lacking connection and end up hurting the game for everyone.
You dont have anything to be sorry about, were just having a friendly discussion.
In essence, I both agree and disagree with you at the same time. Because as far as new games are concerned, high-ping players causing a ruckus is quickly becoming a thing of the past, but saying that the issue is becoming a myth is almost like saying that because we no longer see any commercial 8-bit games means that anything 8-bit is the thing of fantasy.The problem still exists as long as there are people with slower connections, we just now have a much better way of doing things and we dont have to worry about it in some recent games, but it still exists and I can name at least a dozen still-popular games that can attest to that truth.
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Alright there are two kinds of online game set ups: Dedicated Servers and Hosts.
Dedicated server lag is caused by the time it takes for you to send packets to the server, and the server to reply. This makes your level of latency special, and doesn't change other peoples'. Their lag just makes them not play well. When someone joins with a bad ping, and the server latency goes up, it's because the server is struggling to keep up with sending out data.
A host system is where 1 person decides to be the host and becomes a "first among equals" when others connect. These are not servers and do not have the capability to deal with things as a dedicated server could. 1 bad pinger makes everyone's go down. This setup is most used in Xbox live and strategy games. Consider C&C, where a slideshow would happen when 1 bad connection person joined.
Dedicated server lag is caused by the time it takes for you to send packets to the server, and the server to reply. This makes your level of latency special, and doesn't change other peoples'. Their lag just makes them not play well. When someone joins with a bad ping, and the server latency goes up, it's because the server is struggling to keep up with sending out data.
A host system is where 1 person decides to be the host and becomes a "first among equals" when others connect. These are not servers and do not have the capability to deal with things as a dedicated server could. 1 bad pinger makes everyone's go down. This setup is most used in Xbox live and strategy games. Consider C&C, where a slideshow would happen when 1 bad connection person joined.
First off, I would like to apologize if my tone sounded beligerent. As you can tell by the time of my post I was up way past my bedtime and some crazy s^!t can come out of my mind when I get super tired. A agree that I agree and disagree with both of you (Isaak Johnson, murderous_eagle). There are those that agree with me and those that agree with you. Makes for lively discusion over voice comm in game.
However, I stand by my axiom submission
However, I stand by my axiom submission
Isaak Johnson
FNG / Fresh Meat
13: Useing tanks to get road kills and then whineing about getting shot by some unseen Panzerfoust/Sapper to your gunner is not a good thing! Your constant movement makes it impossable to hit anything that could possably be a threat because you were to stupid to stop and let your gunner shoot. If you wan't kills for gods sake jump into the second seat and man the darn hull MG. Then you can get killed.