Fleshpound "Weakspot"

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Sakujo

FNG / Fresh Meat
As the code shows, there should be no glitch oO If TWI wanted the Fleshpound to have no such weakspot, they would have give him a durablehead instead of this one. But as mentioned before, even with this weakspot, it isnt really easy to pull it of while there are other zeds around.(espacially Sirens). And even if you have a 1vs1 with him, alot stuff can go wrong (FP is to far and enrages before, your "noob team" starts shooting it ...and so on)
 

Krieg Jaeger

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 21, 2009
298
34
0
I have a very simple solution to this thread.

It's very existence in itself invalidates the possibility that fleshpound decap is indeed, a glitch or exploit. Otherwise, everyone posting about it would be reprimanded, as per forum regulations, and the thread closed or deleted.

invalid.jpg
 

CannibalBob

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 15, 2009
60
1
0
It's obviously a glitch. Killing the most powerful zed (aside from patriarch) with the weakest weapon in one swing on suicidal without being a zerker? yeah...
 

Benjamin

Grizzled Veteran
May 17, 2009
3,650
635
113
France
It's very existence in itself invalidates the possibility that fleshpound decap is indeed, a glitch or exploit. Otherwise, everyone posting about it would be reprimanded, as per forum regulations, and the thread closed or deleted.
Yes this makes sense if you use absolutely no logic whatsoever.

So you're basically saying TWI fail at designing tank enemies?
 
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emotion666

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 22, 2009
185
1
0
It's obviously a glitch. Killing the most powerful zed (aside from patriarch) with the weakest weapon in one swing on suicidal without being a zerker? yeah...


oh so now zerkers can kill any enemy while other classes shouldnt be able to

it is NOT a glitch

TWI disabled durablehead on FP, which means they DID gave FP a weakness and ability to be decaped in 1 hit

at least this gives a slight ability to kill FP as commando


and trust me, if you are good enough to decap FP with the knife, than you cleaarly should be able to kill him

and FYI on suicidal FP can 1 hit kill you with full health and armour, so yeah good luck with that
 

Slappy Cromwell

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 16, 2009
441
181
0
it is NOT a glitch

TWI disabled durablehead on FP, which means they DID gave FP a weakness and ability to be decaped in 1 hit
Then why can't I decap a Fleshpound with a single rifle shot from a distance like I can with any other easily beheadable specimen? Why do I have to use the knife/pistol/handcannon/bullpup/chainsaw only when the Fleshpound is using a particular melee attack animation just as he's bobbing his head at the closest possible distance? Why doesn't this work on slightly angled surfaces such as the terrain in Farm?
 

Monolithos

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 15, 2009
254
3
0
Then why can't I decap a Fleshpound with a single rifle shot from a distance like I can with any other easily beheadable specimen?
Don't know. There is no special code in the ZombieFleshpound.uc that explain this. I'm sure they put in the code somewhere though. Normal behavior for the KFMonster class that all zombies inherit is that you can decapitate it with damage done to the headshot hitbox. ZombieBoss, ZombieScrake and ZombieSiren have special code to override this behavior. ZombieFlehspound does not.

But from blackbox testing we all know shooting it in the headshot hitbox from range does not decapitate. There must be some code i missed :)
Why do I have to use the knife/pistol/handcannon/bullpup/chainsaw...
...and Machete, Axe, Lever Action Rifle, Crossbow (i've actually killed him dead, no bleed out, using a crossbow at point blank)... Possible even the both shotguns work (but they might have special code when it comes to decapitatations - havnt checked for that, but i don't see why shotguns should not be valid weapon for decapitations).

I am pretty sure i saw special code that prevent firedamage to cause decapitations, so that would rule out flamethrower and flame nades.

Using LAW at melee distance would be a bit counterproductive as you blow yourself up in the process, so we can probably rule that one out too

HOWEVER, it is much easier to do with bullpup and chainsaw - which commando and berserkers tend to use, more on that later...
...only when the Fleshpound is using a particular melee attack animation
It work on all melee attack animations last time i tried... But the timing is different (still when he expose the top of his head though). You have evidence this changed in the last patch and now only work for one single attack animation...? That would be a bit strange i think...
just as he's bobbing his head at the closest possible distance?
This is how they coded it. Guess they thought this would be another good weakness for the fleshpound (he got several, more on that later) and a way for berserkers to deal with them (as berserkers pretty much cant kill them with a chainsaw before they get close, now can they) and commando (as commando pretty much cant kill them with a bullpup before they get close too, now can they)
Why doesn't this work on slightly angled surfaces such as the terrain in Farm?
You sure of this? I was under the impression it does. Just that you have to aim in a different angle. Same as it is "harder" (but not impossible, you just have to aim at a different spot) to get a clear headshot on, for example a clots, when it or you are at different levels, for example in a staircase on the Office Map.



NOW, having said that - Fleshpounds HAVE several other weaknesses. This forum thread is all about the one weakness that was designed to let fast attacking perks such as berserkers and commandos decapitate it at melee range.

As a sharpshooter i shoot them dead solo using my xbow before they reach my team. You see, fleshpounds have a coded weakness to take insane amount of damage from sharpshooters using xbow (other zeds have this too, but xbow headshots on them are mostly overkill). So a sharpshooter basically 3 shots fleshpounds at 6ppl hard games. One to enrage it, one while he is enraged but have not moved yet (standing still and about to charge) and a third while he is running towards the team, killing all zeds in the process as an added bonus. This weakness was designed to let perks with high headshot damage snipe them. Is this a glitch too?

As a medic you can kite it, when at distance unload until it enrage and keep unloading until it get up to you. Stop shooting, let it hit you once. You see fleshpounds have a coded weakness to stop enrage once they strike their target. So once he is un-enraged you kite (using your faster run spead), heal (using your faster and more potent medkits) and when at a distance unload at him again. Rinse and repeat. This weakness was designed to let perks that kite and heal tank... well... kite and heal-tank them. Is this a glitch too?

As support spec you can use some of your ten frag nades. Fleshpounds take half damage from all sources of damage, except explosives (think LAW). Fleshpounds have a coded weakness so they take double damage from frag nades - in effect making frag nades x4 times as efficient vs the fleshpound. This weakness was designed to let perks that foucs on explosives blow them up. Is this is a glitch too?

Fleshpounds also had a weakness that was tailored for Firebugs. This was the "will not enrage as long as it take max 360 damage each two seconds"-weakness. Firebugs set them on fire and let the DoT kill them. Refreshing new fire if needed. This weakness was designed to let perks that deal damage over time set them on fire and let them burn down over time. Was this a glitch too?

I think not, however, this weakness was removed in a recent patch because it promoted solo-gameplay and solo-kiting (and because you could deal "slow" damage using other weapons except flamethrower) two elements that are "bad" for a co-op survival game like KF. So right now firebugs doesn't really have a tailored way to kill fleshpounds anymore... IMHO they should have just changed the code to prevent fleshpounds to enrage as long as it does not take more than 360 FIRE damage each two seconds. As it is right now, firebugs does not have a way to deal with flehspounds (unlike all other perks, as i just described).

Ohh, another "weakness" if you like, however a bit tricky to pull off, but if you get a scrake between you and a fleshpound you can enrage the fleshpound to attack the scrake and they will both stand still attacking eachother. Take your pick whom you want to assist.... Is this a glitch too?

The weakness described in this formum thread does not in any way, shape or form change the fact that suicidal is still suicidal. Going in for a melee headshot while even clots move close to full runningspeed... is deadly (berserkers can pull it off as they take less damage, have faster runspeed and will not be grabbed when they try to avoid the headless fleshpound, but i would not recomend it for any other class unless there are no other options). Due to the fact fleshpounds bleed out slower than all other zeds will give an enraged fleshpound on suicidal a big chance to hit you even after you decapitate it (and that will hurt really bad btw).
 
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Slappy Cromwell

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 16, 2009
441
181
0
There must be some code i missed :)
Or maybe there's simply none at all because it's not intended behavior, i.e. a bug. There's only so many places where TWI could stash this supposedly secret code.

It is nigh impossible to perform an insta-decap with the crossbow.

Possible even the both shotguns work
It, dare I say, is impossible to perform an insta-decap with either shotgun. Try it yourself.

That begs the question: Why would these weapons, all of which are quite more powerful than the pistol/knife/etc, be incapable of performing the same trick? Or at the very least, even if you can cite a single instance where you could insta-decap a Fleshpound with a crossbow or the shotguns, why is it so difficult only for these particular weapons? You would expect the shotguns to be able to behead the Fleshpound just as easily as the knife, but they can't. Is there some code that defines this behavior? I doubt it.

It work on all melee attack animations last time i tried...
It is very difficult to perform on PoundAttack1. Why? Because the Fleshpound actually has to hit you first before he ever bobs his head close enough to get in range. In fact, this is the only melee attack animation where the Fleshpound pulls his head back before striking. Clearly it is the nature of the animations that allows the decapitations to occur, but why? Why would it be so inconsistent between all the melee attacks? Maybe it's because this is a bug and none of it was intended.

This is how they coded it.
And where is the code?

Is this a glitch too?
Everything you have listed has been specifically coded to occur. Yes, you can shoot Fleshpounds in the head with crossbows and they will die. Just hope that you aim well and have enough distance. Yes, Medics run fast and Fleshpounds only hit once when enraged. Just hope that you have enough protection because you will die if you're playing on Suicidal, probably even Hard, and you don't have armor. (Also, it's fairly dumb to reference solo-kiting as being an intended or legitimate strategy.) Yes, you can throw your entire cache of expensive grenades at Fleshpounds and hope they might blow up. (What was your point in mentioning this?) Yes, you can flame Fleshpounds and hope they'll die before they get angry. Not a big chance of that happening. Yes, specimens not of the same species will fight each other if they damage each other. There's even an achievement to get a specimen killed by the Bloat's acid vomit, and they will retaliate if they don't.

Where is the code that specifies Fleshpounds will decapitate only when at a certain range only at a certain angle only during a certain part of their melee attack animation only when hit by certain weapons?
 

Monolithos

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 15, 2009
254
3
0
It is nigh impossible to perform an insta-decap with the crossbow.
Not impossible at all, i've done it more than once. Have you even tried? ;)

It, dare I say, is impossible to perform an insta-decap with either shotgun. Try it yourself.
Well... It is pretty hard to perform a decapitation on bloats using the shotgun too (that is why i wrote that there might be some special code re: shotguns). But if you CAN decapitate zeds using shotgun i see no reason why you should not be able to decapitate fleshpounds with it ;)

That begs the question: ...why is it so difficult only for these particular weapons?
Attackspeed and timing.

You simply have not trained enough using the other, slower, weapons to know when to press the button so the attack land when he is vulnerable.

As for shotgun. A weak theory is that there is special code that prevent shotgun pellets to preform decapitations. What make me say this?

- Shotgun pellets DO have a x1.5 damage when they hit the headshot hitbox.
- i could not kill a 6ppl hard gorefast with a shotgun shot to it's lower body
- I could kill a a 6ppl hard gorefast when i aimed on it's upper body/head area - but without the gorefast being decapitated (!)
- It is hard (impossible) to decapitate a bloat using a shotgun(?)

Why would it be so inconsistent between all the melee attacks?
But I just said I do not think it is any inconsitency. I claim you can decapitate the fleshpound no matter his melee attack animation.

And where is the code?
Probably in the animation code. Point me in the direction where the animation code is and I will dig into it :D

...Just hope that you have enough protection because you will die if you're playing on Suicidal, probably even Hard, and you don't have armor.
You will have 100% health and you will not die if it is hard. You might die on suicidal, but you will probably live - just as if you try to decapitate an enraged fleshpound on suicidal you WILL be hit after the decapitation (as non berserker/medic) but if you have 100% health you will probably live...

Yes, you can flame Fleshpounds and hope they'll die before they get angry.
No, not anymore you COULD (and everyone was doing it, not just firebugs, remember?), but this coded weakness was removed some time ago.

Where is the code that specifies Fleshpounds will decapitate only when at a certain range only at a certain angle only during a certain part of their melee attack animation...
eeh... That code is probably at the same place where the code is that specifies that Fleshpounds can not be decapitated by a ranged attack to their headshot hitbox just like the KFMonster class say it should. )

Seriously, show me that code. It has to be there somewhere. If it aint there, then the actual bug is that we can not singleshot a fully healed fleshpound like we can with all other zeds that does not have specific code that prevent it from happening (ei clots, gorefast, stalker, crawler and bloat).

...only when hit by certain weapons?
You can decapitate the fleshpound using any weapon that you can decapitate a Bloat with.
 

Slappy Cromwell

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 16, 2009
441
181
0
Not impossible at all, i've done it more than once. Have you even tried?
Are we on the same page here? I'm referring to the insta-decap trick where you shoot just as the Fleshpound bobs his head. Of course you can decapitate the Fleshpound with the crossbow if you try and snipe him. That wasn't what I (Or this entire discussion) was referring to.

You simply have not trained enough using the other, slower, weapons to know when to press the button so the attack land when he is vulnerable.
I have the timing down to a tee. Yes, it's more difficult to perform an insta-decap with weapons that have a delay, particularly the fire axe, but that does not explain why the crossbow and shotguns are so excessively poor (If not fully incapable) at performing the same trick.

- It is hard (impossible) to decapitate a bloat using a shotgun(?)
It is very possible, if not simple. I even recorded a video where I do exactly that. I wouldn't rely on the tactic since shotgun ammo is more precious than the pistol's, but it works.

So you can decapitate Bloats (Or any other easily beheadable specimen, for that matter) with the shotguns simple enough. Why not the Fleshpounds?

You can decapitate the fleshpound using any weapon that you can decapitate a Bloat with.
Please decapitate a Fleshpound (Not as the killing blow, but near full health to make it bleed out) with either the normal shotgun or the hunting shotgun. I would very much like to witness this.
 

Monolithos

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 15, 2009
254
3
0
Are we on the same page here? I'm referring to the insta-decap trick where you shoot just as the Fleshpound bobs his head.
So do I. Relax. I know how to read. We are at the same page. (Still Page 5? ;)).

But I see where you are going. The "killing blow" on any zed, including fleshpounds, have a pretty big chance to mutilate the bone it hit (leg, arm, head, etc - depending on where it hit...). If the shot was a "killing blow" you could see the head explode and the fleshpound would fall to the ground with no bleed out.

And my fleshpounds actually DID die when his head exploded (no bleed out) which could mean it just was a normal killing blow that happend to be located at the headbone....

However, with the insane headshot damage of xbow + sharpshooter perk + the extra damage you get for decapitation it is expected that the fleshpound instant die and don't bleed out.

Some theocrafting:

A 6 player hard fleshpound have 4556 HP
[1500 base hp * 1.35 for hard * 2,25 for 6 players]

My headshots deal 2025 damage.
[300 base damage * 1,5 sharpshooter * 6,0 for xbow headshot * 1,5 sharpshooter headshot / 2 fleshpound resistance]

When my headshot decapitate a fleshpound it deal an extra 3164 damage
[Decapitation attack damage (2025HP) + 25% of max HP (1139)]

2025+3164 > 4556, zombie will die not bleed out.

So even a fully healed 6 player hard fleshpound will instant die and do not bleed out from even a single of my "melee headshot decapitation" arrows.

BTW, this is the KFMonster code for extra damage taken from decap:
Code:
	// Head explodes, causing additional hurty.

	if( KFPawn(LastDamagedBy)!=None )
          TakeDamage( LastDamageAmount + 0.25 * HealthMax , LastDamagedBy, LastHitLocation, LastMomentum, LastDamagedByType);
Please decapitate a Fleshpound (Not as the killing blow, but near full health to make it bleed out) with either the normal shotgun or the hunting shotgun. I would very much like to witness this.
I take your word that it can not be done with shotguns.

(But for testing purposes you might want to remember that a zed that instant-died when his head exploded (and did not bleed out) do not have to mean it wasn't decapitated, as i shown above. This is extra important if you test in solo games with powerful weapons...)
 
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NitroBullet

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 4, 2009
191
44
0
Then why can't I decap a Fleshpound with a single rifle shot from a distance like I can with any other easily beheadable specimen? Why do I have to use the knife/pistol/handcannon/bullpup/chainsaw only when the Fleshpound is using a particular melee attack animation just as he's bobbing his head at the closest possible distance? Why doesn't this work on slightly angled surfaces such as the terrain in Farm?

It works on farm. You just have to aim higher or lower depending on if you're on a steep part of the ground or high part.

EDIT: Oh yea i decapped it with a shotgun before.
 
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!_Zombie_!

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 5, 2009
128
7
0
Just wait until the next patch when TWI gets mad at us again for not killing him the way they intended to, remove the weakspot and make him insta-rage the second anyone makes eye contact with him so right as he spawns everyone has to turn around and stare at a wall until he mauls you to be sure he wont rage.

All in jest though, I'm sure we'll figure out glitch/not glitch soon enough.
 

Monolithos

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 15, 2009
254
3
0
...I take your word that it can not be done with shotguns....
OK, just tested a to run a beginner solo game with poundamonium! mutator active as support spec (since it start with shotgun). Two minutes in the first wave I managed to decapitate a flehspound and watched it bleed out.

It can be done for sure.
 

Slappy Cromwell

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 16, 2009
441
181
0
beginner solo game
There's your problem. You can decapitate Scrakes with the bullpup if you're playing in beginner solo. That's not the insta-decap trick. That's just a regular decapitation like you could perform while sniping the Fleshpound with the crossbow. Once again, that's not what we're discussing here. The incredibly decreased health makes a stark difference. Try doing this on normal/hard with 5 other players. If you insist on testing in solo, play on suicidal at minimum.

Again, I'd like to see you (Or anyone else) pull this off. So far it's still proven to be impossible.
 

emotion666

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 22, 2009
185
1
0
There's your problem. You can decapitate Scrakes with the bullpup if you're playing in beginner solo. That's not the insta-decap trick. That's just a regular decapitation like you could perform while sniping the Fleshpound with the crossbow. Once again, that's not what we're discussing here. The incredibly decreased health makes a stark difference. Try doing this on normal/hard with 5 other players. If you insist on testing in solo, play on suicidal at minimum.

Again, I'd like to see you (Or anyone else) pull this off. So far it's still proven to be impossible.


scrake has durable head and gets decapitate WHEN KILLED, he said he DECAPED FP and saw him BLEED OUT

see the difference?

And I was about to mantis this as possible bug and TWI told me its not

will you STFU now?



and your question of: why cant I decap him with rifle at range? you kno why? cause that is not how its intended since there is no danger for you at all, while going point blank is dangerous and you saying that you survive 1 hit on suicidal is just YOUR speculation

I had 100HP + 100 armour countless times when I get 1 hit killed by FP

so yeah he 1 hit kills you

and even on normal when you decap hi if he lands a hit when bleeding out it usualy does 20 HP damage + alot of armour damage on normal 6-man team

if you have no armour damage is massive even on normal
 

Slappy Cromwell

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 16, 2009
441
181
0
Please read the bold part again in case you missed it the first time.
Read every bit of it. Ever single one of my words still stands. Solo mode provides a pretty skewed view to begin with, but throwing the beginner difficulty on top just throws you so far off the map that you may as well be playing a different game. Decapitating a Fleshpound in beginner solo is meaningless. Not only is that not how people play the game, but that doesn't even demonstrate the very topic this thread is contingent on. It's difficult to gain insight when you're playing in an environment where every specimen, including Sirens and Scrakes, can be beheaded at the drop of a hat. We're talking about the insta-decap trick. It's been established that you can decapitate a Fleshpound if you snipe it enough with the crossbow. That's not the insta-decap trick. What you described can hardly be supported as being the insta-decap trick due to all the outside factors.

Even then, then doesn't explain why it's so freakishly hard to perform the same Fleshpound insta-decap trick with the shotgun when compared to the pistol or knife, which is my point. Every bullet-based weapon (And melee item) seems like they should be able to pull it off with the same amount of ease, but that's not true. The shotgun and hunting shotgun (And crossbow, as I contend) are the inexplicable anomalies. There's no reasoning behind it, code or otherwise, they just can't. In light of all these inconsistencies and the lack of any coding whatsoever to support the idea, there's little suggest that this is anything other than a bug, i.e. unintended behavior that too many are trying to justify by reading far too much into it.

scrake has durable head and gets decapitate WHEN KILLED
No, you can behead a Scrake on beginner solo and watch it bleed out. Since you don't seem to be well informed of the subject at hand or able to comprehend the written word here, I would suggest you sit out of this and let the big boys talk.

and you saying that you survive 1 hit on suicidal is just YOUR speculation
I don't even know that's in reference to, but it sure sounds like you're speculating plenty.
 
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emotion666

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 22, 2009
185
1
0
Read every bit of it. Ever single one of my words still stands. Solo mode provides a pretty skewed view to begin with, but throwing the beginner difficulty on top just throws you so far off the map that you may as well be playing a different game. Decapitating a Fleshpound in beginner solo is meaningless. Not only is that not how people play the game, but that doesn't even demonstrate the very topic this thread is contingent on. It's difficult to gain insight when you're playing in an environment where every specimen, including Sirens and Scrakes, can be beheaded at the drop of a hat. We're talking about the insta-decap trick. It's been established that you can decapitate a Fleshpound if you snipe it enough with the crossbow. That's not the insta-decap trick. What you described can hardly be supported as being the insta-decap trick due to all the outside factors.

Even then, then doesn't explain why it's so freakishly hard to perform the same Fleshpound insta-decap trick with the shotgun when compared to the pistol or knife, which is my point. Every bullet-based weapon (And melee item) seems like they should be able to pull it off with the same amount of ease, but that's not true. The shotgun and hunting shotgun (And crossbow, as I contend) are the inexplicable anomalies. There's no reasoning behind it, code or otherwise, they just can't. In light of all these inconsistencies and the lack of any coding whatsoever to support the idea, there's little suggest that this is anything other than a bug, i.e. unintended behavior that too many are trying to justify by reading far too much into it.

No, you can behead a Scrake on beginner solo and watch it bleed out. Since you don't seem to be well informed of the subject at hand or able to comprehend the written word here, I would suggest you sit out of this and let the big boys talk.

I don't even know that's in reference to, but it sure sounds like you're speculating plenty.


I have never seen him bleed-out in solo

prove it with a video

and the lat part is in refference into you saying:
you most likely survive suicidal hit from FP if you have full health

well.....YOU DONT SURVIVE

and no I am not speculating, all I said here is from my 400+ hours of experience and from the info I gathered from TWI



see: TWI said its NOT a bug

whats so hard to understand here?

its not speculation, its what they said

you really like to argue without a valid point, don
 
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