Fleshpound "Weakspot"

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<BC>Skulofsplifs

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 27, 2009
23
0
0
I honestly don't get how some of you can even try and defend this as if its a feature and not a bug. Theres a dfiference between a 'weakspot' and an 'on/off' switch. It would be a weakspot if it occured only after he's taken a bit of damage which could lead you to believe something was exposed. But 1 hit killing a Fleshpound using a 9mm or the knife from full health? I fail to see how that could be intentional, get yourself a rapid fire weapon and you'll basically never fail to decap it when it comes in close if you keep your cool.

This turns the Fleshpound from a powerful killing machine to be feared into nothing more than a gimmick who is only deadly if your allies rage him while your trying to get close.
Maybe the reason you fail to see how this could be intentional is because you have never tried it on the harder difficulties. I can almost guarantee if you tried it on suicidal on a regular map without mutators (where the FP isn't the only thing charging at you that can kill you fast)you would change your mind. yea it seems easy when you look at someone running up to a single FP with nothing around it (pre auto enrage buff) and decapitating it.. but i would love to see someone try to run up to a FP(when it auto enrages) that is surrounded by sirens, gorefasts, clots, crawlers, bloats, and scrakes with a knife and make it out alive... 99 times out of 100(if you don't have a fair amount of experience doing it on suicidal) you will die. Also...if you have played this game before you would have noticed other mobs bug out the movement of the FP making him turn and sometimes charge with his back facing you which means he doesn't do his "head bob" attack he just starts flailing his arms which means on suicide you get killed in 2 hits....maybe 1 but I guess we don't look at things like this when talking about the weak point of the FP because the only thing that matters is 1v1 they are lol easy. Another thing, if it is a bug then why hasn't it been fixed yet. you would think if tripwire knew the most powerful zed (not including pat) can be one shot by a lev 0 perk with a knife they would of done something to fix it by now?


PS: I know my spelling and grammar is bad its almost 10am and still haven't slept :p
<BE CHAMPIONS!>
 
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xyrz

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 27, 2009
187
2
0
Yeah. I trained myself to decap the fleshpound yesterday. I logged on a full 6 hours. I can do it 80% of the time now BUT that was a fleshpound only game and GOD MODE is on. I can still do it on hard and suicidal. But I make sure the fleshpound is alone. If I do it when there are a gorefasts, bloats or any other specimens. I AM DEAD! 100%
 

hajalie24

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 9, 2009
159
0
0
I do this a lot but most of the time I tell my teammates not to shoot at them but they still do, with something like a bullpup. This only works if he's aiming at you right? I can't get his head off(or get him to move his head down) when I'm 1 foot away from him sometimes cause he's focused on someone else.
 

Benjamin

Grizzled Veteran
May 17, 2009
3,650
635
113
France
Calling someone a troll because they have their own opinion is not a valid way to conduct a debate. The fact that they have played a 'rival' game for much longer than KF doesn't disqualify their opinion.

I don't think TWI have commented on this, but I personally feel that it is a bug, for the same reasons Evilsod mentioned.
 

<BC>Skulofsplifs

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 27, 2009
23
0
0
I'm sorry if you read my post and the only thing you got out of it was I was calling him a troll, and it was because he plays l4d more then killing floor because honestly that inst even what my post was about nor was it even what i was trying to talk about. (also deleted the edit part of my last post because i don't want people to think the reason for the post was to call him a troll, i was trying to say that if he had played recently and on a harder difficulty he would see the challenge in this also that game mechanics dont work quiet like he said. because your allies don't need to shoot him to enrage him, and if his point is it is a gimmick unless your allies enrage him obviously stating that fleshpounds are hard if enraged then hes contradicting himself because FP's auto enrage now making them almost able to if not able to one shot you on suicide)
basically what i was getting at was, there are a lot of variables and different situation that could makes this a challenge, by itself it may be easy but very rarely in hard and suicide do you get to fight a fleshpound 1v1 and get to kite him freely threw enrages and be able to position him on flat terrain, then hope he does "head bob" attack (which doesn't happen 100% of the time) in ideal conditions yes it could be easy but i have noticed a lot while playing on suicide that very rarely do you get these ideal conditions.
 
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Monolithos

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 15, 2009
254
3
0
... It would be a weakspot if it occured only after he's taken a bit of damage which could lead you to believe something was exposed. ...
If the zed have the "Durable Head" property set it will require quite a lot of damage taken before you can decapitate it.

(As people seem to be too lazy to read the code for themselves, and does not take my word for it i will cut 'n paste from the monster base class that all zeds inherit)

C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\common\killingfloor\KFMod\Classes\KFMonster.uc

Code:
var() bool bDurableHead; // if true, the zombie's health comes into play when determining a decap.
Code:
			if (bDurableHead)
			{
				if( bIsHeadShot && Damage>(Health / 15) && Health<(Default.Health/1.85) )
					RemoveHead();
			}
What this state, is that if bDurableHead is true, then the target need to be really hurt or your attack (that hit the head-bone location) need to deal exessive amount of damage in order for the zed to be decapitated.

Only two zeds have this property set. Scrake and Siren.

C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\common\killingfloor\KFChar\Classes\ZombieScrake.uc
Code:
bDurableHead = true
C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\common\killingfloor\KFChar\Classes\ZombieSiren.uc
Code:
bDurableHead = true

All other zeds, including, but not limited to, the fleshpounder, can be decapitaded from full health using one single attack.
 
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!_Zombie_!

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 5, 2009
128
7
0
Mono, it's true that what you've posted accounts for critical headshots, in no way does it show that it's (Fleshpound "bend" headshot) a feature.

Unless you can post a line of code that points out this specific feature all you've done is proven is all other specimens OTHER than the scrake and siren can be decapitated in a single headshot ie; a critical NON-CONSTANT factor.
 
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Slappy Cromwell

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 16, 2009
441
180
0
Only two zeds have this property set. Scrake and Siren.

All other zeds, including, but not limited to, the fleshpounder, can be decapitaded from full health using one single attack.
Are you implying that it's possible and easy to decapitate the Patriarch in one hit?
 

Benjamin

Grizzled Veteran
May 17, 2009
3,650
635
113
France
Are you implying that it's possible and easy to decapitate the Patriarch in one hit?

It's not possible because the RemoveHead procedure is left blank for the Patriarch, rather than doing the usual routine of whatever happens when removing the head.

And if it is intentional for the Flesh Pound to be possible to decapitate, why can it only happen when he bows his head, when there's no specific code to handle this?
 

Monolithos

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 15, 2009
254
3
0
Mono, it's true that what you've posted accounts for critical headshots, in no way does it show that it's (Fleshpound "bend" headshot) a feature.
Did i say that? Please read the post i quoted.


...weakspot if it occured only after he's taken a bit of damage...

The weakspot after taking a bit of damage is called "Durable Head". Scrake and Siren have this. FP does not have "Durable Head".


Now to the issue if fleshpounds should be decapable(is that a word?) or not.

There are code snipplets scattered all over that indicate that FPs are intended to be decapitable, however, i have not found why it is impossible to decapitate them at times. There must be a pice of code that prevent decapitation, but i have not found it (havnt yet found the code for the animations "PoundAttack1", "PoundAttack2" and "PoundAttack3", might be embedded in them...)

Center for critical headshot ("head bone") spot is located 2.5 units up from the end of the "neck bone" (same as bloat, crawler, gorefast and stalker - rest have a lower value) and is 30% bigger than normal zeds (same as bloat and patriarch -clots, stalker and scrake have 10% - gorefast and crawler 5% and siren have 0% extra size). It is pretty easy to shoot it in the head (and know that you shot it in the head) from range (since, for example, xbow enrage it with a head shot, not with a body shot) but it does not decapitate (why, i dont know - all code i found so far actually point out that it should be decapitated by a normal shot to the head, much like a bloat).

Ok, some code that trippwire put in to support decapitation of fleshpounds.

1) Normal (default) zeds have a 5 second bleed out before they die. Zed only bleed out if it is decapitated and have hp left. Fleshpound, however, have code to extend bleed out to 7 seconds. Only reason to add code to extend bleed out duration is because fp can bleed out, but they wanted it to be a bit dangerous for an additional two seconds before it dies (btw, bloat have a 6 second bleed out).

ZombieFleshPound.uc line 649
Code:
BleedOutDuration=7.0

2) Fleshpound can start to charge (enrage) if you hurt it too much during a two second period (360 damage / 2 seconds). Trippwire put in extra code to check if the fleshpound is decapitated or not before starting charge due to damage taken. Fleshpound can not start charge if it is decapitated. Only reason to put in that extra check is if fleshpound are not supposed to be immune to decapitation.

ZombieFleshPound.uc line 104
Code:
	if (!bDecapitated && TwoSecondDamageTotal > RageDamageThreshold && !bChargingPlayer)
		StartCharging();



Normal case when you attack a zed is that there will be
1) check if the attack is a head shot
2) if headshot (and not fire damage) check if head is durable (only scrake and siren), if not - decapitate

Functions used for this are TakeDamage(), isHeadShot() and RemoveHead()

Fleshpound code override TakeDamage() to add code for starting charge (enrage) of damage taken and playing shutdown animation if incomming damage is more than health etc. However, then it run the normal TakeDamage() code.

isHeadShot() is not overrided.

RemoveHead() is not overrided for fleshpounds (it is for other zeds, sirens for example have extra code that prevent them from shouting when their head is decapitated).

i am missing something, but the way i read the code when you shoot a fleshpound is:
1) check if fleshpound should enrage due to damage in short amount of time
2) check if the attack is head shot
3) if headshot (and not fire damage) decapitate

Feel free to show me the code where the fleshpound turn immune, because i can not find it (but blackbox testing does indicate that it should be there somewhere).



If this make it too easy or if you think it should be immune or not is another topic, however, I belive that trippwire put in code (somehwere) to make him immune to decapitation [most of the time].

I belive it is working as intended.

You are free to disagree, this is an open forum on the internet. Me nor you can't really "win" any arguments here i guess.

...Don't think i can will put any more effort into this thread though.

If might spend a few hours diggin for the code that make him immune. If i find that ill update this post.
 

Monolithos

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 15, 2009
254
3
0
Are you implying that it's possible and easy to decapitate the Patriarch in one hit?
It's not possible because the RemoveHead procedure is left blank for the Patriarch, rather than doing the usual routine of whatever happens when removing the head.
Correct. Patriarch override RemoveHead() and does not call the original code. In short - he can not be decapitated, ever. Even if the killing blow was a headshot.
And if it is intentional for the Flesh Pound to be possible to decapitate, why can it only happen when he bows his head, when there's no specific code to handle this?
Good question. There must be specific code for this. Havnt found it yet though.
 

Krieg Jaeger

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 21, 2009
298
34
0
Has anyone attempted to jump and knife or jump and shoot the fleshpound for the same effect (as his head and shoulders are lowered, exposing his weak spot, that may exist prior)?

As the fellah said, there hasn't been some sort of temporary (majority of the time, actually) headshot immunity, save for when his head goes down. Has anyone tried shooting him in the same location that causes the crit from a distance (someone else causes him to bob, someone at a distance fires)?

Bleh..Tired as hell, hope I made some sort of sense or relevant point to be considered.
 

!_Zombie_!

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 5, 2009
128
7
0
Not condoning glitching but quite a few, mainly the Farm levels place you above the enemy. If the top of his head is his weak spot, anyone there would easily be able to see and shoot the top of his head.
 

brick_top1982

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 12, 2009
654
83
0
38
There is only one thing that I would like to see happen with the FP's, And that is when you enrage it, you cannot decap it.

I've done it on accident a few times. Rage it, as it comes at me do the same decap trick, and boom there goes his head. The attack animation is similar to non raged when the big guy is raged which allows it to be decaped in almost any scenario.

FP's still are a force to fear, I just want it to strike more fear into the players then it normally does.
 

Evilsod

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 20, 2009
883
137
0
Ylivieska, Finland
Maybe the reason you fail to see how this could be intentional is because you have never tried it on the harder difficulties. I can almost guarantee if you tried it on suicidal on a regular map without mutators (where the FP isn't the only thing charging at you that can kill you fast)you would change your mind. yea it seems easy when you look at someone running up to a single FP with nothing around it (pre auto enrage buff) and decapitating it.. but i would love to see someone try to run up to a FP(when it auto enrages) that is surrounded by sirens, gorefasts, clots, crawlers, bloats, and scrakes with a knife and make it out alive... 99 times out of 100(if you don't have a fair amount of experience doing it on suicidal) you will die. Also...if you have played this game before you would have noticed other mobs bug out the movement of the FP making him turn and sometimes charge with his back facing you which means he doesn't do his "head bob" attack he just starts flailing his arms which means on suicide you get killed in 2 hits....maybe 1 but I guess we don't look at things like this when talking about the weak point of the FP because the only thing that matters is 1v1 they are lol easy. Another thing, if it is a bug then why hasn't it been fixed yet. you would think if tripwire knew the most powerful zed (not including pat) can be one shot by a lev 0 perk with a knife they would of done something to fix it by now?


PS: I know my spelling and grammar is bad its almost 10am and still haven't slept :p
<BE CHAMPIONS!>


So what your saying is, because a Fleshpound needs some extremely good teamwork to take down on Hard and Suicidal without deaths... this glitch is obviously intentional to make it easy for noob teams? Since i generally play public games on KF i've been stuck with Hard as the highest difficulty, if i could get in close and decap the FP before the idiots behind me (i was playing Zerker) started raging it we were fine. If the idiots behind me raged it without any plan, they got maimed. Should this team, that was quite obviously full of fail, deserve to reach the end because of a glitch and not because they worked well together? NO!

Other examples of this teams awesome teamwork. Zerker w/ Chainsaw covering the 1 side, occasionally 1 or 2 others would join in, rush to kill as much as possible... and ignore the Crawlers, the only thing a Zerker can't handle with his melee weapon. I get taken down to 30hp and i request heal.... nothing. I ended up having to heal myself while my 5 teammates did nothing to help. In the end 4 of them were killed and it was just 2 of us running round to finish off the Scrakes and the last few things... he STILL didn't heal when i asked. Not good when your Chainsaw was the only thing stopping this noob from dieing.

Why should that team be allowed to reach the Patriarch thanks to an 'easy mode Fleshpound' glitch?
 

xyrz

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 27, 2009
187
2
0
So what your saying is, because a Fleshpound needs some extremely good teamwork to take down on Hard and Suicidal without deaths... this glitch is obviously intentional to make it easy for noob teams? Since i generally play public games on KF i've been stuck with Hard as the highest difficulty, if i could get in close and decap the FP before the idiots behind me (i was playing Zerker) started raging it we were fine. If the idiots behind me raged it without any plan, they got maimed. Should this team, that was quite obviously full of fail, deserve to reach the end because of a glitch and not because they worked well together? NO!

Other examples of this teams awesome teamwork. Zerker w/ Chainsaw covering the 1 side, occasionally 1 or 2 others would join in, rush to kill as much as possible... and ignore the Crawlers, the only thing a Zerker can't handle with his melee weapon. I get taken down to 30hp and i request heal.... nothing. I ended up having to heal myself while my 5 teammates did nothing to help. In the end 4 of them were killed and it was just 2 of us running round to finish off the Scrakes and the last few things... he STILL didn't heal when i asked. Not good when your Chainsaw was the only thing stopping this noob from dieing.

Why should that team be allowed to reach the Patriarch thanks to an 'easy mode Fleshpound' glitch?


Your last sentence doesnt conform with your story.

The Fleshpound tactic wasnt even used in your story.
 
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