Flamethrower?
- Thread starter DAMNEMESIS
- Start date
I don't know if flamethrowers were used that much in the battle of stalingrad, but I'm quite sure that Molotov Coctails were NOT used en masse by the germans or the soviets. I think only the finns mass-produced those molotovs (maybe brits too, I'm not sure), but you wouldn't be able to imagine my face when I played Call of Duty 5: World at War, and saw that all the soviet troops carried like 3 molotov coctails with them and used them as anti-infantry grenades.
Also, molotov coctails were more effective against early war tanks, such as T-26, because their exhaust pipes (or whatever they were) weren't as protected as later era tanks.
And again about the flamethrowers, I'm not sure if they would be useful at all in the game, also, they'd be very hard to model. You have the PPSH-41, so you have the weapon for those close quarters building raids, grenades to empty bunkers. If you had flamethrowers, you'd have to think about how it first of all would ignite stuff (after all, they used fuel, so it's not like using a lighter which doesn't leave any inflammable stuff after it, it just uses butane or another sort of gas. So getting actually hit by the fuel would sort of be certain death, but also, since the flamethrower isn't like a machine gun, it doesn't have bullets that hit and kill, it has also what you'd call an area of effect. Also, the flamethrowers of that era wouldn't really be very good, since you could do continuous firing for just a couple of seconds, also, if I'm not completely wrong, they had 2 man teams for a flamethrower, since it's a very heavy weapon.
In my opinion, flamethrower isn't worth the work for the game, also, it'd be a huge question about realism and balance, and another opinion: Molotov Coctails have no place in the world of Red Orchestra, at least not the stalingrad-sequel.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not a huge history buff after all.
Also, molotov coctails were more effective against early war tanks, such as T-26, because their exhaust pipes (or whatever they were) weren't as protected as later era tanks.
And again about the flamethrowers, I'm not sure if they would be useful at all in the game, also, they'd be very hard to model. You have the PPSH-41, so you have the weapon for those close quarters building raids, grenades to empty bunkers. If you had flamethrowers, you'd have to think about how it first of all would ignite stuff (after all, they used fuel, so it's not like using a lighter which doesn't leave any inflammable stuff after it, it just uses butane or another sort of gas. So getting actually hit by the fuel would sort of be certain death, but also, since the flamethrower isn't like a machine gun, it doesn't have bullets that hit and kill, it has also what you'd call an area of effect. Also, the flamethrowers of that era wouldn't really be very good, since you could do continuous firing for just a couple of seconds, also, if I'm not completely wrong, they had 2 man teams for a flamethrower, since it's a very heavy weapon.
In my opinion, flamethrower isn't worth the work for the game, also, it'd be a huge question about realism and balance, and another opinion: Molotov Coctails have no place in the world of Red Orchestra, at least not the stalingrad-sequel.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not a huge history buff after all.
Although I agree completely with the usefullness.
I would love to see it in-game.
Having a kill/death of 0.05 would still be worth it if the one kill came from a mighty flamethrower in his face
Loved it in WaW and with better technology it might run a little better
I'm interested in what effect both of those would have a tanks.
Strictly speaking, if you light a tank on fire the crewmen are going to be in trouble as solid homogeneous steel makes for a good heat conductor. Molotov cocktails were strictly used (and really only effective) as an anti-tank weapon. Flamethrowers are anti-emplacement, but I'd imagine they must have some effect on tanks.
Strictly speaking, if you light a tank on fire the crewmen are going to be in trouble as solid homogeneous steel makes for a good heat conductor. Molotov cocktails were strictly used (and really only effective) as an anti-tank weapon. Flamethrowers are anti-emplacement, but I'd imagine they must have some effect on tanks.
Yep. German infantry used farming equipment and made a make-shift flamethrower. They were used mostly to kill Soviet Snipers trough very small openings, since they used to flee trough the sewer system.
The first time I saw this was on the "General at War" episode about Stalingrad in the National Geographic Channel.
Watch the episode below (warning, 5 YT videos) :
Spoiler!
Part 3 at 1:40 shows the role of the Soviet Snipers had in the Battle, with good ol' glorious Zaitsev. 40 kills in 2 days is just awesome.
Part 3 at 4:43 shows the "Flamethrowers".
Part 3 at 6:19 shows how much the Soviets helped in stoping the Blitzkrieg.
Part 4 shows the dreaded Soviet Winter.
Hope you enjoy this.
I suggest you save the videos on your favourites or something because this shows a lot of stuff about the Battle of Stalingrad.
PS : Will we get Katyushas in the future? Because "Stalin's Organ" is just wonderfull to hear (if you are a Soviet).
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Yep, Neo-Nazi's, they are soo stupid it hurts my brain. Couldn't find a better video on YT ...
Molotovs were used by the soviets en masse!
They also improved it so you dont need fire to lit it, the molotovs were ignited by a chemical reagent.
Also the germans used them frequently, but they didnt mass produce them.
.(but whats the point of mass production or not, if we got weapons like the Mkb ingame?)
about the effectness against tanks:
Molotovs are even good against modern tanks! the ventilation system at the rear of the tank can not be secured against it.
if you throw a molotov at the rear of the tank, the burning fuel will run down the ventilation shaft and burn there all electric cables, causing failure of the engine - and imobilizing the tank!
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[url]http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/images/Talvisota/Piirrokset/EnglantilainenPiirrosTankintuhoajista.jpg[/URL]
Germans preparing/carrying molotov cocktails
Actually, those are not Germans, they are Finns. The picture is from the Winter War.
These forums are full of neo nazis.Yeah the videos are good otherwise. Kinda bugs me to give them views though.
Why would you say that if you dont know what you're talking about? a simple google search would have saved you all he trouble.
It's full of Communists too...
Ok guys, no need to start a bunch of crap.
Back on topic: I think flamethrowers and molotovs would be very nice, especially if we can use them to clear out a small wooden house actually, I wonder if they do add fire type weaponry, would we be able to burn down houses? seeing as they are destructable.
Just my thoughts
Back on topic: I think flamethrowers and molotovs would be very nice, especially if we can use them to clear out a small wooden house
actually, I wonder if they do add fire type weaponry, would we be able to burn down houses? seeing as they are destructable.Just my thoughts
Actually, I did do a google search, actually, multiple ones. Couldn't find a single trace of soviet usage of the molotov coctail. Of course, the soviets named them differently, but I don't know what was their russian name. Actually, I'd like to have some more information about that.
Btw, nice attitude, jerk (I would probably use some more powerful words in real life, but I think that I would be banned for that in here)
Molotovs Cocktails would be a great addition (if not already in game)... great way to take out tanks other than satchel charges or at-rifles.
Molotovs are not as effective against tanks as most like to beleive, but they are useful. I've seen modern Canadians train to make and employ them against tanks by targeting the vision blocks and hatches. This forces the tank to stay buttoned and renders them mostly blind through the flame and smoke. Modern tanks are 'proof' against molotovs otherwise, but WWII tanks were different. The Russians learned in the Winter War what they could do and their later designs drained flaming liquids away from the engine. Similarly the German panzers were likely less than vulnerable. But throwing a molotov into an open hatch, or even onto the turret nearby while the commander is turned out? Smoke would flood the interior with just a little fuel getting inside. And hurling two or three over the vision blocks of a tank would blind it with char and soot on the glass even after the fire burns out. So I can only say they would be effective, and deadly if the tanker was foolish and opened a hatch, but likely not able to kill them. That would require our usual satchel charges, AT rifles or another tank. Unless you just spammed the things. A dozen on the engine deck and turret would probably, eventually, suffocate either the engine or the crew.
So I'd love to see Molotovs and Brandflaschen in game as an unlockable grenade. Useful if you expect tanks or just want to deny the enemy a bunker. Besides, some pretty fire effects going on would liven up the battlefield. I can also easily see whole wooden buildings lighting fire and burning down over the course of a minute or two, still able to be fought over inside. The only problem is a lot of stuff that should burn doesn't, and at this late hour players will be surprised to see inconsistant flammability of objects.
But all in all, worthwhile. I hope for a mod to feature them at least.
So I'd love to see Molotovs and Brandflaschen in game as an unlockable grenade. Useful if you expect tanks or just want to deny the enemy a bunker. Besides, some pretty fire effects going on would liven up the battlefield. I can also easily see whole wooden buildings lighting fire and burning down over the course of a minute or two, still able to be fought over inside. The only problem is a lot of stuff that should burn doesn't, and at this late hour players will be surprised to see inconsistant flammability of objects.
But all in all, worthwhile. I hope for a mod to feature them at least.
On the Russian Wikipedia, it says that Russian Molotovs were first produced in 1941 in Saratov, based on the designs seen used both in Spain and the Finnish campaign. A pair of chemists or whatever they were, Kachugin and Shcheglov, made cocktails of gasoline , kerosene and naphtha, and had a friction fuse just like the Finnish cocktails. It even mentions some kind of elaborate alternative fuse mechanism that works by fitting a metal compartment into the bottle and rigging it so it would ignite once the bottle broke, that way you could sneak up on a tank without a torch in your hands.
It's a shame the wiki doesn't have diagrams or photographs of these "stealth Molotovs".
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