Fixing the M14, once and for all.

[Olivier]

Don't you dare remove my amazing ironsight. You can't reduce the rate of fire effectively, see previous posts/pages.

Well alt-fire on the m14 could be replaced by mounting a scope

 

[Ebay]

Well alt-fire on the m14 could be replaced by mounting a scope

Me Like.

 

[Ranger01]

Wouldn't work realistically (do NOT pull that "this is a game with monsters and you want it to be realistic!!!???" bullcrap). Mounting a scope to a rifle requires zeroing the scope to the rifles point of aim, unless a proprietary mounting system (like on an AK/ SKS) is used. A better option would be a "shoot-through" mount. But for those of you who don't think the M14 sights are crap in this game, they are, at the ranges I use it most the front sight post is wider than my target. On my '59 H&R M14 I can set a human silhouette target at 200yds (double the average KF distance) and my front sight post is still not larger than the head of the target.

 

[SMIFF]

Wouldn't work realistically (do NOT pull that "this is a game with monsters and you want it to be realistic!!!???" bullcrap). Mounting a scope to a rifle requires zeroing the scope to the rifles point of aim, unless a proprietary mounting system (like on an AK/ SKS) is used. A better option would be a "shoot-through" mount. But for those of you who don't think the M14 sights are crap in this game, they are, at the ranges I use it most the front sight post is wider than my target. On my '58 H&R M14 I can set a human silhouette target at 200yds (double the average KF distance) and my front sight post is still not larger than the head of the target.

i hate when people say that "realistic???? with ZOMBIES??!?!?!" line lol.

but that being said, Gameplay comes before realism in this game i think, so quickly mounting a scope would be ok

 

[Ranger01]

Well another problem with mounting a scope is time. Its more than just slipping it on. You have 2 options with the EBR, a "scout" style scope (out on the forward hand guard rails) or a M14 scope mount (right on the reciever). Not counting zeroing and eye relief and etc, a scout style scope can take about 3 min to put on if your fast and know where it needs to go. A receiver mount, requires screwing the bracket to the receiver, then screwing the mount onto the bracket, then putting the scope on that takes about 7 min when done fast. (Conceivably you could carry the scope already on the mount, but putting the mount and scope on the bracket all at once is a royal PITA. Plus doing this method requires a table, or sitting down at least.) Removing the first option takes only a few seconds (unscrew and pull), but the second option takes longer than to put it on.

Long post short:
Xbow scope takes a really long time to put on or remove, but is better for long range shooting.
SCAR type scope mounted forward on the rail system is "quick" but is only really good for a SCAR type scope (no better than the laser).


Solution, a shoot through mount. There are currently mounts being made to fit the M14 bracket that allow the iron sights to be used as well as the scope, they have ergonomics problems in the real world but in a game that doesn't really matter. Usage of this type of mount would mean a simple button click allows you to look below the scope through the irons, and another would move your eye back up to the scope. Could take no time at all in game. (In the real world it requires modifying your cheek weld and or pad so its not uncomfortable.)

 

[Olivier]

Solution, a shoot through mount.

I think we are getting near a good solution for the m14

 

[Temstar]

Or you can have the scope always mounted, and alt fire opens or closes the front and rear lids for the scope.

Or you can just have no alt fire at all.

 

[CandleJack]

If you make it an M21, your still going to have a 20rd magazine (low capacity magazines were designed for civilians living in areas where normal capacity magazines are illegal.) Also if you cut the total ammo capacity you should up the damage dealt (it is already too low for what the weapon is supposed to be). Also the EBR system as it is now was originally used by the USMC as as a basis for the EMR (Enhanced Marksman Rifle) to replace their M21 and M14 DMR rifles. The EBR is just as much a sharp shooter weapon as an M21, due to the reciever being "mated to the stock" (in this case hand fitting the receiver to the EBR system) just as an M21 reciever is bedded to its stock for more accuracy.

If you lower the ammo count, lower the damage, and lower the magazine capacity, and raise the weight you basically make the weapon useless.

If you lower the ammo count, the weight must be lowered too, ammunition is about 60% of most weapons systems.

Im a level 6 sharp shooter, me and my group use the M14 a lot on suicidal but we have a Xbow for when the FPs and Skrakes come knockin, the reason is because the Skrakes and FPs cannot be taken down effectively with the M14, it is not powerful enough.

In conclusion:
Upping the Damage (even if just for head shots), adding a mid power (slightly less than the xbow) scope would make it a fine SS weapon, lowering the ammo capacity (with a weight reduction, allowing the carriage of another weapon other than a hand cannon), would work out.

If you want to keep it out of the hands of non SS players, make the EBR expensive and give the SS a discount for it like was done with the medic and his gun.

I know i'm a bit (lot) late with this, but here goes:

The 20 rnd mag is fine, the number of mags/bullets overall is what's bothering me. You have 15 (total) mags, plus the gun, and yet it still somehow weighs less than the Xbow? How? Say the Xbow weighs the same as the M14, and a bolt weighs the same as a 7.62x51mm round, then 40 bolts and the Xbow weighs more than an EBR with 300 rounds.
Cut this down to 9 mags like the other guns, and then you can consider it's weight justified.

And i never said anything about the mag cap. For some reason people automatically assume lowering the ammo means lowering the mag size. If i meant the mag size i would have said it.

And it is expensive, and SS does get a discount for it. The recoil also keeps it out of people's hands, some of them at least. I prefer to go with the SCAR if i want a T3 weapon as medic over the M14 EBR.

The problem with it lies in the fact that so-called sharpshooters are using it in an un-sharpshooter-like fashion, getting in support ranges and letting rip with next to no recoil. The laser sight only compounds this problem. How can one be expected to perform like a sharpshooter when playing like a commando is easier. I mean, if they choose sharpshooter to spam, then should i choose commando to snipe? Or maybe Support to heal and Medic to weld. If you choose one class to play like another perk due to a single function (laser sight) that doesn't really fit with the perk.

 

[Undedd Jester]

Its just the constant spam = win aspect that bugs me on the M14. Lowering its total ammo is the minimum of what I'd like to see the gun undergo

 

[Ebay]

Its just the constant spam = win aspect that bugs me on the M14. Lowering its total ammo is the minimum of what I'd like to see the gun undergo

Lowering the ammo count won't change a thing. You'll just see more SS running around with scars.

 

[obrekat']

Haha!

You'll be going on about this forever - the Anti-M14EBR camp. Should make a Steam group so you can fight with yourselves as you join Normal PUG servers.

 

[Entangler]

Lowering the ammo count won't change a thing. You'll just see more SS running around with scars.

By what percentage should I expect the current figure of 0 to increase?

Haha!

You'll be going on about this forever - the Anti-M14EBR camp. Should make a Steam group so you can fight with yourselves as you join Normal PUG servers.

If that's your best attempt at trolling, boy, I really hope you're better at something else.


Also, why do people keep assuming that moving all of the Sharpshooter's damage bonuses to headshots will result in an excessive headshot bonus for off-perk weapons? There's nothing stopping the game from using two different multipliers based on the weapon used - it manages well enough for the other damage bonuses, doesn't it? - and that's exactly what I suggested. If the Sharpshooter's headshot bonus was doubled for its own weapons in lieu of the existing damage bonus, that would yield a 100% bonus at level 6, which might sound like a lot, but is actually less than what they receive currently (since the two existing bonuses are applied separately, thus effectively multiplying together to form a 125% bonus); and at any rate, the bonus for other weapons would not be affected.

 

[Ebay]

By what percentage should I expect the current figure of 0 to increase?

How did you assume nobody uses that combo?
It works well and is much better than EBR + Handcannon

 

[Undedd Jester]

How did you assume nobody uses that combo?
It works well and is much better than EBR + Handcannon

You seriously take down suicidal 6 man HP scrakes and fleshpounds with a meager 50% bonus to scar headshots? I found the 60% bonus with commando all over shots weren't enough to kill a scrake... and just severely pissed off a FP... You dont even gets the commandos 25 bullets... you only get 20 just like the M14...

....maths fails... mind blown <3)

 

[nutterbutter]

Mounting a scope to a rifle requires zeroing the scope to the rifles point of aim, unless a proprietary mounting system (like on an AK/ SKS) is used.

Wow. Alt-fire showing a scope would require zeroing the scope every time it is pressed.

Just wow.

 

[Ebay]

You seriously take down suicidal 6 man HP scrakes and fleshpounds with a meager 50% bonus to scar headshots? I found the 60% bonus with commando all over shots weren't enough to kill a scrake... and just severely pissed off a FP... You dont even gets the commandos 25 bullets... you only get 20 just like the M14...

....maths fails... mind blown <3)

Who's dumb enough to try to kill scrakes and FP with a Scar as SS??
Use your freaking EBR, you got both with you.

EBR for stalkers/cralwers and big baddies, clots/gorefasts/bloats and long range shooting with Scar.

As for the ammo, who cares? Its still 300 more shots and if you play your cards well, you'll have at least half ammo on both at every wave end.

 

[Ranger01]

Wow. Alt-fire showing a scope would require zeroing the scope every time it is pressed.

Just wow.

On a rail system yes, because even with a numbered rail system (for placing things in the same place) you will be off a few mm (unless you are lucky), and a few mm on the rail is enough to be a few inches to feet depending on the range you are shooting. Now Alt-Fire moving from sights to scope, well, since you aren't moving the scope its fine.

 

[Undedd Jester]

Who's dumb enough to try to kill scrakes and FP with a Scar as SS??
Use your freaking EBR, you got both with you.

EBR for stalkers/cralwers and big baddies, clots/gorefasts/bloats and long range shooting with Scar.

As for the ammo, who cares? Its still 300 more shots and if you play your cards well, you'll have at least half ammo on both at every wave end.

Oh I see, you buy both of them, well fair point, of course that will work better than deagle, your using 2 Tier 3 weapons. I thought you meant use the scar in place of the M14 period xD

And if I was feeling like being a tw@ I would say something like "actually no if you play your cards well you would finish on 3/4 ammo on each gun"