RO2 First Map Project - Looking for some guidance and advice

[RushTheBus]

Hi all,

I've been a long time lurker and only just recently registered, but have been a fan of RO from the very, very, very early years. I've always been interested in creating content for the game but simply did not have the time. I now have a bit of time on my hands and began taking a look at the SDK. A few generic UDK tutorials and articles have helped me out a fair bit. I wanted to hash out a solid concept and then begin blocking out terrain and such.

History has always been one of my more healthy vices. The western front of the ETO has always been a special place of interest for me. Due in large part because of my heritage and my grandfather being a twice veteran who was wounded twice while fighting in Europe. Combine that with announcement of HOW and it feels like now is the right time to start.

My first itch was to create a map based around the US landings at Omaha beach. I have a fair bit of research on the topic done already and already had a very rough layout of how the beach was going to look (see below). That was, however, until i saw the thread on Lallup's project (looks great). I don't want to be in any competition or detract from the hard work of others.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7fm5frqpkjaen21/concept.png

So, what would the fans of the western front like to see? I considered fictional classics like a map based around the Ramelle battle from Saving Private Ryan (i have so many great memories from battling it out on dod_ramelle). I also considered more historically accurate engagements like those of brecourt manor or bastogne.

My goal is to have this thread be a positive place where both the community and i can learn together and hopefully end up with a strong western front themed digital battleground.

I appreciate your time and

 

[Catalavos]

Hey Rush,
Congratulations, you've just fallen into the "bad crowd" your mother always warned you about. I'd be happy to share everything I've learned about working with the SDK (not that I've learned much). Feel free to hit me on Steam if you have any questions. I might not answer quickly but I'll always answer.

Good luck!

 

[RushTheBus]

Hey Rush,
Congratulations, you've just fallen into the "bad crowd" your mother always warned you about. I'd be happy to share everything I've learned about working with the SDK (not that I've learned much). Feel free to hit me on Steam if you have any questions. I might not answer quickly but I'll always answer.

Good luck!

Hey Catalavos! Thanks for the kind words and offering of assistance! I added you on steam!

Right now, i guess my main questions regarding level design in RO2 are as follows:

- What are the average size of community maps and how big is too big in terms of performance (when i was working on my Omaha landing map, for instance, i was working with terrain that was 1024 patches wide by 2048 patches long)?

- This is going to sound absurd, but i cannot, for the life of me, find the .upk that contains sky box static meshes - any idea where they are located?

Still not 100% sure on what the project will be - i keep going back and forth between Ramelle, Brecourt Manor, and Bastogne.

 

[RushTheBus]

Just a bit of an update. I decided to decided to settle on the 101st's assault on Foy during the Battle of the Bulge.

There are not many quality maps of the area in 1944, but i found a few and came up with this general layout (based off of those period maps):

Because the Axis hold the advantage here i want to give the allies a number of avenues of attack, that's why i've added three spawn locations across a large front. The left two spawns are where Easy company from the 506th would have attacked across the hey field. The right most spawn was B Company of the 401st glider infantry regiment attacked from.

Any thoughts or concerns from experienced level designers?

The objectives for this map will be

1) Capture of the field / establish a front at the edge of town

2) Destroy the German 88 battery

3) Knock out German armor

4) Capture strategically important locals within the town of foy (exact yet to be determined - i will try and base them on research but one will be the church in the center of town, for sure)

 

[Catalavos]

I'll try to answer each of your questions-

1. I had this all written down somewhere but can't find it right now but it does lead me to something I would suggest anyway. It might be a good idea to create a small database for yourself with some of the specs. of the stock maps. Things like terrain size, lighting and certain items located under "World Properties" will be things that you continually refer back to and taking the time to write some of these things down will pay off later. 1024 x 2048 is pretty dog gone big, however, depending on the individual patch size.

2. Ahh yes, the pleasure of having to load packages over and over again. I'll answer this when I get in front of my computer a little later tonight.

 

[RushTheBus]

Thanks for taking the time Catalavos. I've decided to work with a 512x512 patch terrain for now and even then it looks like ill be removing a good portion of it.

Right now, Ive layered the above layout out on top of my terrain. I'm trying to block out the forest area with trees and add a few important structures so i can try and get the scale of things correct. I have two issues:

1) The SDK is exceptionally fussy with displaying static meshes that i place into the world manually or via deco layers - more often than not, it simply does not display what i've placed or painted in in any of the view ports. If i preview in game mode i can pan around the map and see the objects i painted but not while editing / creating in the view ports.

2) My goal is create a small portion of fairly thick forest where the US will deploy out of initially. I'm having some issues painting my deco layer as the randomization leaves large gaps where trees should be. I've tried to increase the density a bit but that seems to cause the SDK to crash a fair amount. Is there any way around this or should i simply plug the holes manually with static meshes of the same trees?

 

[nymets1104]

Just a heads up also,

Since this map will be set in the winter you can change the temperature of the map in the MyMapInfo settings. I believe anything under 0 activates winter uniforms. There are not yet winter skins for the Allies in the Heroes of the West MOD, but I believe work is being done on them.

 

[Catalavos]

You might be better off placing trees individually rather than in the deco layer. Also, just a heads up that in my experience the engine absolutely hates trees and having lots of them will have a substantial effect on the frame rate. I don't know how the RS guys are able to have such dense forests while maintaining a good frame rate though my suspicions are that they are in some sort of alliance with Satan. There is a pine tree mesh in the Myshkovia River package callled something like Harley_pinetree_billboard or something that has a very low polygon count and looks pretty good from 10 ft. away. It's not the prettiest tree but from a distance it is more than adequate.

 

[PsychoPigeon]

My only advice is don't try and please everyone it won't happen, be very careful about who's feedback you accept take a look at their background and what knowledge they actually have and brush off the rest. You'll get people saying stuff like " I don't like the lighting" "i want a map based somewhere else" ignore these nubs and don't take it personal.

Add me on steam if you'd like

 

[titsmcgee852]

My only advice is don't try and please everyone it won't happen, be very careful about who's feedback you accept take a look at their background and what knowledge they actually have and brush off the rest. You'll get people saying stuff like " I don't like the lighting" "i want a map based somewhere else" ignore these nubs and don't take it personal.

Add me on steam if you'd like

Gotta agree with that. I often see changes made to maps that are based on the wishes of a vocal minority who have played the map only once or twice, and often they aren't good changes.

 

[RushTheBus]

nymets & Catalavos - Thank you for the advice. I ran a quick test with two deco layers worth of pine trees with a density of 3.0 and it crashed UDK and ran like crap! I did discover the less complex "imposter" type trees. I think what I'm going to try and do is use low quality static meshes to make up the bulk of the "back field" and use the higher quality ones within the allied player spawn (essentially a thin strip vs an entire forest).

I think my biggest struggle right now is that of scale - I'm really having a hard time laying things out. The block out i did (posted a few threads above) is based off a period map but its not to scale. I layered it over a 1024x1024 patch terrain and then a 512x512 patch terrain to guide me. Unfortunately, its so stretched out that the scale gets shot to hell. I guess I'm having real difficulty where to start things.

Psycho & Tits - i appreciate the comments and support. I will do my best to stay true to general goal, hopefully have fun doing it, and learn a lot at the same time. Psycho, i've added you on steam so hopefully we can chat.

 

[Catalavos]

I have a few tips on getting the terrain, etc... correctly scaled but I'm too busy to type it all out right now.