Firebug: The unbelievably powerful perk no one uses
- Thread starter nutterbutter
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Ok, I wanted to give this thread a little time to shake out. So here comes the big reply. 
Because with the right player, the flamer is a force multiplier for the entire team.
Not really. Your examples are fine for a group of 4 or 6. When I meant thick group, I meant 30+. And don't forget that except for medic and melee, on suicidal those mobs are going to chase the player down from behind.
The firebug can run full speed down a hallway and simply level everything in front of him. A group or 6 crawlers catch him from behind? A quick spin and everything is dead and he never stop running the entire time.
Put a group of 60+ mobs, or more, close to a player and see which perk walks out. Put them on different levels (a box or random junk on the deck that makes the mobs jump over) and those headshots aren't a given. Doesn't matter to the firebug. And the firebug can spend the last 10 or so ammo to carve out a little space and the can reload and then put out another 10 seconds of unmatched damage.
Because the firebug turns killing every mob from "one or a few hits" to "one hit anywhere if the mob is still alive."
Pretty much.
I disagree.
The flamer can fire at any mob no matter how close.
The fired grenades have a limited damage range.
The firebug can drop grenades at his feet.
Firebug doesn't die if someone cuts in front of him when he fires or throws a grenade.
Firebug doesn't die if a mob jumps in front of him just outside the range of the grenade arming.
The firebug doesn't need to aim perfectly for damage like the demo, but the flame continues when the mobs drop and that is the important thing. Demo fires a grenade that hits a clot with 1 hp that grenade detonates.
Flamer still does DoT while grenade doesn't. People who don't like flamer keep saying that DoT is minimal but I disagree. DoT is significant in my opinion. And if the firebug has 6+ mobs on fire at the same time, that is significant damage.
Firebug can walk the fire to distant targets.
Any tiny separation between mobs means that fire can get past him and hit mobs behind. And those mobs can be 30 feet or more back.
The grenade does stun, but only does initial damage and the demo also produces smoke. Well deserved smoke in my opinion. If that smoke obscures anyone's vision, then it hurts that player's output. If that grenade doesn't kill that mob immediately, it is still a threat.
The firebug should be setting everything on fire he can. So he can be doing direct damage in one are while still be doing DoT everywhere else.
Exactly. I'd say that group of 4 can be killed even faster and the best part is the firebug doesn't even really have to aim. The firebug can see those out of the corner of the screen, swing around, fire a quick limited burst and then go back to the main attack.
That's what I was thinking.
I agree with you completely. Having a perk that completely dominates every mob/wave/game is boring.
That's why I love playing the game with people I trust. When I play on hard, I usually do a "perk round robin." I switch perks each wave to keep things interesting. When I play on suicidal, I almost always play sharpie until I learn I can trust the team and that I won't always be the last one standing trying to save the wave. When I can trust the team, I love playing other perks, especially firebug.
Because with the right player, the flamer is a force multiplier for the entire team.
Not really. Your examples are fine for a group of 4 or 6. When I meant thick group, I meant 30+. And don't forget that except for medic and melee, on suicidal those mobs are going to chase the player down from behind.
The firebug can run full speed down a hallway and simply level everything in front of him. A group or 6 crawlers catch him from behind? A quick spin and everything is dead and he never stop running the entire time.
Put a group of 60+ mobs, or more, close to a player and see which perk walks out. Put them on different levels (a box or random junk on the deck that makes the mobs jump over) and those headshots aren't a given. Doesn't matter to the firebug. And the firebug can spend the last 10 or so ammo to carve out a little space and the can reload and then put out another 10 seconds of unmatched damage.
Because the firebug turns killing every mob from "one or a few hits" to "one hit anywhere if the mob is still alive."
Pretty much.
I disagree.
The flamer can fire at any mob no matter how close.
The fired grenades have a limited damage range.
The firebug can drop grenades at his feet.
Firebug doesn't die if someone cuts in front of him when he fires or throws a grenade.
Firebug doesn't die if a mob jumps in front of him just outside the range of the grenade arming.
The firebug doesn't need to aim perfectly for damage like the demo, but the flame continues when the mobs drop and that is the important thing. Demo fires a grenade that hits a clot with 1 hp that grenade detonates.
Flamer still does DoT while grenade doesn't. People who don't like flamer keep saying that DoT is minimal but I disagree. DoT is significant in my opinion. And if the firebug has 6+ mobs on fire at the same time, that is significant damage.
Firebug can walk the fire to distant targets.
Any tiny separation between mobs means that fire can get past him and hit mobs behind. And those mobs can be 30 feet or more back.
The grenade does stun, but only does initial damage and the demo also produces smoke. Well deserved smoke in my opinion. If that smoke obscures anyone's vision, then it hurts that player's output. If that grenade doesn't kill that mob immediately, it is still a threat.
The firebug should be setting everything on fire he can. So he can be doing direct damage in one are while still be doing DoT everywhere else.
Exactly. I'd say that group of 4 can be killed even faster and the best part is the firebug doesn't even really have to aim. The firebug can see those out of the corner of the screen, swing around, fire a quick limited burst and then go back to the main attack.
That's what I was thinking.
I agree with you completely. Having a perk that completely dominates every mob/wave/game is boring.
That's why I love playing the game with people I trust. When I play on hard, I usually do a "perk round robin." I switch perks each wave to keep things interesting. When I play on suicidal, I almost always play sharpie until I learn I can trust the team and that I won't always be the last one standing trying to save the wave. When I can trust the team, I love playing other perks, especially firebug.
People can like playing it all they want, won't change the fact its an inferior perk on Suicidal.
Here comes my opinion :3 I think the thing is that the difference between a good firebug and a bad firebug is very big, and that this is causing this discussion. If a bad firebug joins a game of the harder kind he generally hoses away his fuel and uses it in the wrong situations. If we compare this with a good firebug he uses his fuel wisely and deals a lot more damage with a lot less fuel and wont even end his flamer before the wave is over.
I have a good example: Crusader (yes), When we're playing suicidal he's got no problems handling himself. He's almost always got most kills. While many firebugs that joins suicidal games and dies or have a very hard time using the ammo well. Yes unfortunately good firebugs are kinda rare. Firebugs in general are kinda rare :/
What I'm trying to say is that I believe that FB is one of the harder perks. Generally the other perks only requires to aim and shoot and things will go well. While firebug is more about local tactics/ammo preservation/location. If you play firebug as you play with most of the other perks you will likely fail quite a lot. And the fact that Firebug is one of the non-OP perks only feeds this rather meaningless discussion.
This is fact: that Firebug isn't as good as many other perks. I honestly believe that it's on the same level as support/zerk. While the other perks could use quite a nerf.
One thing though: How is it possible to use a flamethrower inside of Offices without burning it to the ground?
(Last: @Evilsod: Yes Firebug might be useless in suicidal when in your hands but if you ever play with someone who's actually dedicated to it and know his ways around I believe you will change your mind. But I believe that you won't believe this until you see it with your own eyes, which I respect.
Also it's a matter of definition, can a perk be useful on suicidal without the capability to take down larger zeds? If that's not the case then you are right. But I guess that our definitions differs from person to person which means that it won't be "official" if we say so.)
Kissies and huggies /Anemia
Edit1:[ Evilsod: "...when in your hands..." was not meant to offend, I just wrote it since you can only refer to yourself in that statement. So I beg to apologize if you take it the wrong way, but just so you know.]
I have a good example: Crusader (yes), When we're playing suicidal he's got no problems handling himself. He's almost always got most kills. While many firebugs that joins suicidal games and dies or have a very hard time using the ammo well. Yes unfortunately good firebugs are kinda rare. Firebugs in general are kinda rare :/
What I'm trying to say is that I believe that FB is one of the harder perks. Generally the other perks only requires to aim and shoot and things will go well. While firebug is more about local tactics/ammo preservation/location. If you play firebug as you play with most of the other perks you will likely fail quite a lot. And the fact that Firebug is one of the non-OP perks only feeds this rather meaningless discussion.
This is fact: that Firebug isn't as good as many other perks. I honestly believe that it's on the same level as support/zerk. While the other perks could use quite a nerf.
One thing though: How is it possible to use a flamethrower inside of Offices without burning it to the ground?
(Last: @Evilsod: Yes Firebug might be useless in suicidal when in your hands but if you ever play with someone who's actually dedicated to it and know his ways around I believe you will change your mind. But I believe that you won't believe this until you see it with your own eyes, which I respect.
Also it's a matter of definition, can a perk be useful on suicidal without the capability to take down larger zeds? If that's not the case then you are right. But I guess that our definitions differs from person to person which means that it won't be "official" if we say so.)
Kissies and huggies /Anemia
Edit1:[ Evilsod: "...when in your hands..." was not meant to offend, I just wrote it since you can only refer to yourself in that statement. So I beg to apologize if you take it the wrong way, but just so you know.]
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Hey, thanks for your guide! Earlier I didn't liked firebug, because I thought it is very weak perk. Yesterday, me and my friend tried out combination of firebug and support spec. and it was... AWESOME! I'm already Lvl 3. Now my ammo is not dissapearing so quickly, I can easily go through the wave, and if strange situation happens, I take handcannon with me, just in case.
So yeah, firebug is really powerful if you play it properly ^_^!
So yeah, firebug is really powerful if you play it properly ^_^!
Just my opinion in this post,
Firebug, and any perk in general, is only as powerful as the player using it is skilled.
A sharpshooter with the M14EBR can make the weapon a powerful tool of destruction, or a ticket to hell.
Same goes with firebug and the flamethrower. A skilled firebug can handle themselves and everything they encounter with one weapon; with fuel left over. An unskilled firebug often does poorly and either runs out of fuel or dies.
I can handle myself on either hard or suicidal with firebug and get second place, and have done before. I'm not a pro, nor am i unskilled. I just prefer not to use it because it doesn't fit my playing style.
Which is another issue. Some people like to spam a lot of ammo in a short amount of time. That's their playing style and it'll take a fair bit to change that.
Firebug, and any perk in general, is only as powerful as the player using it is skilled.
A sharpshooter with the M14EBR can make the weapon a powerful tool of destruction, or a ticket to hell.
Same goes with firebug and the flamethrower. A skilled firebug can handle themselves and everything they encounter with one weapon; with fuel left over. An unskilled firebug often does poorly and either runs out of fuel or dies.
I can handle myself on either hard or suicidal with firebug and get second place, and have done before. I'm not a pro, nor am i unskilled. I just prefer not to use it because it doesn't fit my playing style.
Which is another issue. Some people like to spam a lot of ammo in a short amount of time. That's their playing style and it'll take a fair bit to change that.
I can agree with most things on that list. The firebug is strong, I just found that out again one day when I was soloing in WestLondon in front of the police station and there were like 25 mobs or so and I just went all out, burning them all down. Fire grenades really help.
You will have to aim a bit though as the flame thrower really has some signifcant recoil.
I have to disagree on ammo, though. Even if you can conserve by just shooting bits of fire, I found myself wanting one more ammo canister every now and then, especially in 6ppl games where masses of monsters coming at you over the course of the game, in higher difficulties.
As for Demo contra Firebug, I think they are only comparable on side lines. They serve different purposes or are using different tools to get there. I believe the Demo to be the Engineer of Killing Floor. Granted, he has to be helped by Support Specialists, but his pipe bombs (no offense) can help behind welded doors or as last defense resort against FPs, luring them in. Yet, Firebugs have some additional range with their flamers on higher perk levels, I found the demo to be having even higher radii. They are group killers, while firebugs are needed to soften them up, as you said. Demos can also soften up FPs while Firebugs are quite good against scrakes (from what I've encountered). While they can both kill MANY mobs in an instant, the Firebug just does not have enough ammo in this situation, to do this all the time. Demo is slightly better in this department, I think.
€ Someone has to do this for the Commando Perk.
You will have to aim a bit though as the flame thrower really has some signifcant recoil.
I have to disagree on ammo, though. Even if you can conserve by just shooting bits of fire, I found myself wanting one more ammo canister every now and then, especially in 6ppl games where masses of monsters coming at you over the course of the game, in higher difficulties.
As for Demo contra Firebug, I think they are only comparable on side lines. They serve different purposes or are using different tools to get there. I believe the Demo to be the Engineer of Killing Floor. Granted, he has to be helped by Support Specialists, but his pipe bombs (no offense) can help behind welded doors or as last defense resort against FPs, luring them in. Yet, Firebugs have some additional range with their flamers on higher perk levels, I found the demo to be having even higher radii. They are group killers, while firebugs are needed to soften them up, as you said. Demos can also soften up FPs while Firebugs are quite good against scrakes (from what I've encountered). While they can both kill MANY mobs in an instant, the Firebug just does not have enough ammo in this situation, to do this all the time. Demo is slightly better in this department, I think.
€ Someone has to do this for the Commando Perk.
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I remember play firebug in a hard 6 man game in bedlam, i just stay on front tapping my flame thrower, and my teammate finish off any specimen that alive, it work pretty good.
If possible, never go for lone specs. The only times where you should shoot at lone specs is if a) they're fp, scrake, siren, or bloat or b) they're straight up chewing at your face.
Otherwise, don't waste ammo on little things if possible. Let a teammate kill them. Fire is meant to spread and cause DoT. Shoot at groups and clusters of enemies. The fire will spread if they're close together enough, even if you've only used 1/100 of a canister.
Yeah probably true. And I do like to steamroll a large group of mobs with fire. Burn, heretics! Yepp fire uses a small area of effect radius which is very good as well. Problem is, if everyone is busy with something else and that lone gorefast likes to chew on you or anyone else, they do take quite a few seconds to roast with DoT, and switching to a 9mm sometimes takes too long if they just came 'round the corner. I admit it happens very seldom, though.
Yepp fire uses a small area of effect radius which is very good as well. Problem is, if everyone is busy with something else and that lone gorefast likes to chew on you or anyone else, they do take quite a few seconds to roast with DoT, and switching to a 9mm sometimes takes too long if they just came 'round the corner. I admit it happens very seldom, though.
Whats not to get? Sure Firebug can handle itself on all difficulties if the conditions are right, that is, enough space so they can burn to death or small enough numbers so you won't run out of ammo by spraying them to death, but that doesn't change the fact Firebug has major restrictions on how useful it'll be, restrictions which don't apply or are offset elsewhere by all other perks.
i sort of agree with evilsod, but i understand everyone else's view. some people have different play styles thus leaving them to dislike firebug, and play it the wrong way. the only reason why i cannot stand being in a server with a firebug is because the vast majority of the people who play the class dont play correctly, thus hurting the team and completely destroying everyones view of everything.
M14 is over powered however on noobs's hand can still get them killed. Many of them just spam body shots on suicidual which dont work well. They end up chop by group of gorefasts + crawlers or puke by some bloat before they have a single shot in the head.
There's a time when I see a 6lv ss with xbow and missed the firest shot on a fleshpound, and miss the second when he is raging, and the third shot when it is up at his face. He died instanly.
I think in right hands a firebug can be powerful, but on the same skill level, firebug cannot do better than other perks. Commando can see stalkers and health and one headshot due with many of the zeds. Full auto SCAR can even clear a way from big group of zeds other than scrake and fleshpounds. Which is just like demo/firebug/support in most cases. However demo produce smoke, and firebug produce fire which both block teammates' sight.
If one really need to walk trough a big group of zeds, support can aa12 untill they all dead, commando can empty an SCAR clip and then empty an ak clip and demo can give up. As there will not be more than 24 (or 27? I dont remember) zeds at the same time, and they also wont be coming form the same direction. So commando and support can also do what firebug can do. May be if there are really 30+ zeds on the same hallway firebug can do better. But for the system at this moment, commando and support can do the same while have much more use on other suituations.
There's a time when I see a 6lv ss with xbow and missed the firest shot on a fleshpound, and miss the second when he is raging, and the third shot when it is up at his face. He died instanly.
I think in right hands a firebug can be powerful, but on the same skill level, firebug cannot do better than other perks. Commando can see stalkers and health and one headshot due with many of the zeds. Full auto SCAR can even clear a way from big group of zeds other than scrake and fleshpounds. Which is just like demo/firebug/support in most cases. However demo produce smoke, and firebug produce fire which both block teammates' sight.
If one really need to walk trough a big group of zeds, support can aa12 untill they all dead, commando can empty an SCAR clip and then empty an ak clip and demo can give up. As there will not be more than 24 (or 27? I dont remember) zeds at the same time, and they also wont be coming form the same direction. So commando and support can also do what firebug can do. May be if there are really 30+ zeds on the same hallway firebug can do better. But for the system at this moment, commando and support can do the same while have much more use on other suituations.
I love being a firebug, but I usually avoid playing it because it's a bit too easy and monotone.
I don't like playing it the way people are suggesting here. I don't waste time weakening enemies except for scrakes and FP. I kill everything else right away. As long as I can run over 2 or 3 ammo boxes, I have enough juice to last the whole wave.
I don't like playing it the way people are suggesting here. I don't waste time weakening enemies except for scrakes and FP. I kill everything else right away. As long as I can run over 2 or 3 ammo boxes, I have enough juice to last the whole wave.
That doesn't even come *close* to working on Suicidal. More enemies and fewer ammo boxes = you're out of ammo with half the wave left.
Hang on, half this thread has been spent saying the firebug can't *possibly* run out of ammo if played effectively, and then this guy comes along saying he needs 2-3 ammo boxes on (i can only assume) Hard, to not run out and you jump to his defence? Well i'm sorry if you wanted to jump on the bandwagon but that was just pathetic.