Fire & Maneuver Realism Mod

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gentrinity

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 26, 2009
229
109
0
@Golf33

From what I've seen, you can override the base code through the map and you can also add as many squads and classes as you want map side. I haven't been able to really play with it myself but I have seen it. You would have to ask Biermann or some of the mappers if they have figured it out.

I've checked out both the code for the classes, as well as the in-map properties where you can apparently change stuff up. It's a bit more confusing than it used to be, but the code is pretty straightforward.
 

MonkeyWithAGun

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 13, 2011
31
1
0
great mod +1

However for a mod featuring so much emphasis on squad play i have a few questions/concerns:

1. As squad leader it is extremely difficult to know on the fly who is in your squad, what role they are, and whether or not they are alive.

2. As a squad member, it is difficult to find your squad leader as well being alerted to any order he has given
 

EvilKiwi436

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 26, 2011
119
98
0
Oh, and one more thing, make sure not to lower the current sprint speed! It's fine, but make it last shorter/have greater penalties.
 

float bewa

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 6, 2011
4
0
0
I'd just like to say that I really like how this thread is shaping up. I feel like the best side of the community is over here and I have high hopes for this mod. depending on how its done it might be what ACE2 was for ARMA2, ie practically every clan/server/league using some or all of its features.

getting RO2 closer to reality and historical accuracy is something everyone wants. People are just worried about gameplay being frustrating. Anyways, here are my personal suggestions:

Movement

I like what you have so far but something I haven't seen mentioned is inertia. should have to get up to speed/slow down gradually over a second or two. on a similar note spinning around as fast as you can flick your wrist is pretty arcadey. also slower movement up stairs and slopes and for the love of god collision between all players.

Weapon handling

mg recoil is good its just that the barrel should not rise into the air at all. shakes and kicks? yes. throws you off target? no. it also seems the weapons don't have MOA and bullets dont drift. adding these in with the proposed sway should take away the hyper accuracy problems. lastly the guns are just too responsive; zero inertia -> part of the impossibly fast aim.

Supression

great ideas, just that they should be narrowed down to just one or two of the effects because i dont need epileptic grayscale beer goggles jerking my aim around blinking furiously when im 20 seconds into spartanovka. Sublime is best. I'd say blackout/blink on explosion, aim snap and dof type blur past 15m when shot at is enough.

Wound effects

more effects than just death or bleeding. occupation cs is absolutely out of control in this department. that man made some seriously wild stuff (on the source engine no less), and he'd be a great addition to the community. just check out the moddb page- its godlike. <a href="http://www.moddb.com/mods/occupation-source" target="_blank">[url]http://www.moddb.com/mods/occupation-source[/URL]
 

Omar The Insurgent

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 23, 2006
255
109
0
I have one suggestion that I made prior to release of RO2. It would be really nice to have the screen move backward with weapon recoil animation, I think it would improve immersion of weapon digging into your shoulder.

As it is now, in some weapons it feels like rear end is kicking you in the eye.
 
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Colt .45 killer

Grizzled Veteran
May 19, 2006
3,997
775
113
@gentrinity.

Is this something you'r working on by yourself?

I'd be interested in helping.

Also, I liked almost all of the original ideas, but a medic system ALA ACE arma 2 and a medic to go with it should be something optional so server admins have the option to turn it on or off. That or some serious testing and debate would need to go into it, because it really would change the course of the whole game. ( would probably also slightly decrease the target market of this mod ).
 

GRIZZLY

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 18, 2011
745
337
0
New Jersey
I might know some people through my brother who were disappointed by the Ro2 release and know how to code... Hopefully I can contribute some man power even if indirectly because I REALLY REALLY want this mod to succeed. There's just no game right now that I actually enjoy playing except Ro1... and those servers are dying unfortunately.
 

gentrinity

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 26, 2009
229
109
0
@EvilKiwi436

Sprint speed is not the issue, it's the momentum, or lack thereof. I plan on trying to fix that.

@float bewa

Thanks. I won't try my hand too much at the historical stuff, but I'm definitely aiming for realistic.

As to your points;

Movement - I spoke with someone about this in the thread, but I forgot to add it. I guess I decided to stop adding features since I already have a bunch of them. There's already quite a bit of work so I haven't been quick to add new features to the list.

Weapon Handling - MGs are difficult to represent but I'm certainly going to be playing with options to get the right sort recoil on the thing.

Supression - It depends, this is one of the first times a game allows us to experiment with morale effects and combat spacing. I'm definitely not going to pass this opportunity up. Just stick close to your buddies and you should be fine.

Wound Effects - Definitely needs some work, I hate shooting someone first and they just being able to calmly blow my brains out.

@Omar The Insurgent

Yeah, I definitely need to play around with the MG recoil

@Colt .45 killer

Thanks, if you have UnrealScript programming experience, we can definitely talk.

@GRIZZLY

Yeah, hopefully I can provide something good.
 

MonkeyWithAGun

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 13, 2011
31
1
0
To clarify:

1. there will be no attachments for the guns correct? Just authentic WW2 weapons, right?

2. Will your stat bonuses factor into this?
 

CuriousOrange

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 12, 2011
31
21
0
Sounds great, can't wait to try it out. But I do think the maps are the biggest reason for the change in gameplay style.
 

LeftHandPath

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 30, 2011
184
17
0
Please,take a look to the video,Resistence and Liberation gameplay:


Resistance and Liberation gameplay - YouTube

To watch mins. 0,33-1:47-2:16 and 2:52 full video,when the guy moves into ironsight and he puts into practice the "zoom",do you see the effect simulating our view?

I think it is a nice effect and more realistic,what do you think about?


Anyway can
 

GRIZZLY

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 18, 2011
745
337
0
New Jersey
Can you get rid of bandaging and make the health system like Ro1?

Shooting during slow death is ridiculous - 99% of soldiers would just fall to the ground in pain... I'm sure there were a few really dedicated people who tried to take out one last German as they bled out - but I bet it was less than 1%.

A lot of realism guys on the forum are calling for bandaging to take longer. Bandaging does NOT add realism. If you get shot in the torso you will be INCAPACITATED! "Death" in Ro2 really represents incapacitation - whether or not the soldier would actually die from the wound is irrelevant to the gameplay at hand. Even if the bandaging time were increased ... a well tended casualty is STILL A CASUALTY.

It worked well in Ro1 because they allowed a little leniency in terms of getting shot in the foot/hand. The bandaging allows people to escape from MG barrages and live (totally stupid) .... plus is really not fun having to hit control when you get shot.... Ro1 more or less DID have bandaging but you didn't need to waste time fumbling for a button (which you will obviously succeed in doing 95% of the time anyway so IMO bandaging really just adds some
unwelcome frustration)



EDIT : I just reread the original post and would like to also propose a compromise to your system. If you are going to add a medic class then you should do it like Wolfenstein ET. When a player is killed they lay on the ground in an incapacitated state. While in this state a medic can revive them OR an enemy can shoot them to finish them off. The incapacitated player can also hit space bar to 'tap out' - which can be a strategic option if no medics are nearby because players only respawn if they are fully dead. If you see a medic running towards you with 4 seconds left til respawn - you have to decide whether to bleed out and catch the repsawn, or wait for the medic and risk having to sit through another 40 second respawn clock. Not only does this add a real level of strategy to getting wounded - The assailant also has a strategic moment to consider when he incapacitates you. Should I kill him off or can I use the wounded man as bait to kill a medic? This was a real strategy implemented by the Wehrmacht against the Allies (mostly against the Americans).

I REALLY think you should reconsider the "longer bandage time". Not only will it be frustrating, time consuming, and not fun - but it really doesn't become realistic just because it's closer to the time it would take for a bandaging job in real life. Regardless of the time it takes, a soldier who took a rifle round through the femur is up and running in less than a minute when IRL he would probably get his leg amputated. The added time seems like it will just be frustrating.

I know you want a wound to be a serious affair ... but remember that in Ro1 with NO bandaging people played more conservatively because getting shot was more often lethal. If you got shot in the foot you would TAKE COVER because your avatar was so slow that resuming your journey across an open alley would be suicide unless you can sprint. The result - The player took cover until his foot was better in the next 10 seconds (and slower stamina recharge helped too)... In Ro2 the same thing would've happened only you need to hit that obnoxious *** control key.
 
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fireship4

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
79
2
0
What about allowing the choice of enemy weapons on maps where it is appropriate? For example PPSH for the Germans in Stalingrad in some cases? I'm not sure but they might have used it.
 

gentrinity

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 26, 2009
229
109
0
@LeftHandPath

I saw the effects, they look pretty good. What exactly do you want me to see here?

@GRIZZLY

Yes, the idea was to have the player incapacitated mostly, laying on the ground waiting to get bandaged up. A shot to the torso will most likely not be bandage-able by the player himself. The reason you're not seeing the system work is because you still think self-bandaging will be a key player, and it wont be. If I can work the system out correctly, the majority of hits will incapacitate in some way or another. I would like you to drop your weapon, only be allowed to prone, or just lie on the ground waiting for a medic/squadmate. Bandaging yourself would become rare and only on those occasions where it's a wound to a limb and it's not severe. Like you said, it would allow for some interesting tactics that can emerge. For instance, some units can decide to tell their guys not to kill medics, meaning that the medic class will actually have some level of survivability. Who knows.

Either way, the main thing I want to do with my system is make this game less lethal, which should make firefights last even longer. Should be some fun stuff. Remember, casualty rates include wounded men as well, KIAs are usually less than 50% of the casualty rates.

@fireship4

That can be accomplished map side.
 
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GRIZZLY

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 18, 2011
745
337
0
New Jersey
@LeftHandPath

I saw the effects, they look pretty good. What exactly do you want me to see here?

@GRIZZLY

Yes, the idea was to have the player incapacitated mostly, laying on the ground waiting to get bandaged up. A shot to the torso will most likely not be bandage-able by the player himself. The reason you're not seeing the system work is because you still think self-bandaging will be a key player, and it wont be. If I can work the system out correctly, the majority of hits will incapacitate in some way or another. I would like you to drop your weapon, only be allowed to prone, or just lie on the ground waiting for a medic/squadmate. Bandaging yourself would become rare and only on those occasions where it's a wound to a limb and it's not severe. Like you said, it would allow for some interesting tactics that can emerge. For instance, some units can decide to tell their guys not to kill medics, meaning that the medic class will actually have some level of survivability. Who knows.

Either way, the main thing I want to do with my system is make this game less lethal, which should make firefights last even longer. Should be some fun stuff. Remember, casualty rates include wounded men as well, KIAs are usually less than 50% of the casualty rates.

@fireship4

That can be accomplished map side.

Sounds good to me!! You sound like you have a firm vision of the way you want the combat to play out, and I like the way it is going!

Just out of curiosity - Have you started anything? I don't know about coding or modding so do you need to wait for the SDK?
 

gentrinity

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 26, 2009
229
109
0
Sounds good to me!! You sound like you have a firm vision of the way you want the combat to play out, and I like the way it is going!

Just out of curiosity - Have you started anything? I don't know about coding or modding so do you need to wait for the SDK?

Thanks. I really think I can design gameplay mechanics that will really impact the gameplay in a realistic, yet fun manner. But I'm more than willing to hear ideas out. The thing is, just by laying out a feature list, it's really hard to say what will work and what won't. So for a lot of suggestions, I need to just stick to what I think can work from a programming stand point, and if it doesn't, then fix it. I am definitely not stubborn about that.

I'm currently working on an iPhone game so I haven't had much time. Once I finish the game, I'll be pretty much free for months. I have studied some of the code but I'm somewhat new to UnrealScript, however since I'm a game programmer, I'm following along fairly easily. Right now I'm just identifying which code files have the functionality that handles the things I want to mod.
 

GRIZZLY

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 18, 2011
745
337
0
New Jersey
Are you killing some of the.... less desirable additions of Ro2? (Recon planes, etc.)

Also - I hope this will be largely resolved on custom maps but are you gonna change the spawns at all? the distances in ro1 were much better... Also spawn on SL is pretty awful
 

LeftHandPath

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 30, 2011
184
17
0
@LeftHandPath

I saw the effects, they look pretty good. What exactly do you want me to see here?

Spoiler!

Yeah,thanks.

Well,if possible add or maybe you think add some effect like this into your mod? Or simply not in your plans?