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Fire & Maneuver Realism Mod

As to weapon jamming, I see your point, this is just not fun at all. If I can, I can make this up to the server owner to decide whether to have it on for his server, because I know some realism units will want to have some form of weapon jamming.
I think you could make it like what happens to the guy in this video:
Mosin Nagant Speed Shooting and Remedial Action Drills - YouTube
Bolting sometimes could be very smooth and sometimes could be a bit harder. Occasionally there could be small jams like in 0:55. I don't know if you could make it. Don't know if it's possible to do that in SDK and create chances of X% of jamming and rough bolting.
 
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A bit pistol shooting on longer range, no vid of the shooter, but time between shots. He wouldn't have hit a human, but range was 352 yards...



glock long range pistol shooting (352 yards) - YouTube


Same one shooting the Kar in your vid, using a handgun at the same range, if i didn't miscount aim time is between 4 to 13 secs, and he hits...
Long Range Handgun Video - Headcracker1985 - MyVideo

At the end he mentions thats the first time he shots at that range (230 yards) and he only has about 100 rounds experience at shooting handguns on long range. Admittetly a big handgun :D.


P.S.
Most of the time when he didn't take long to aim he hit, might have something to do with muscles twitches becoming more pronounced the longer your hold the Weapon at Ironsights.
 
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2) Suppression should be only on incoming fire not on friendly fire
Is there a difference between incoming vs friendly? If the bullet is passing close to you does it matter whether from front or rear?

3) Suppression should be scaled and a slower recover scale. What I mean by this is if there is an mg firing your direction but the rounds are landing 10 metres away. They it should increase your sway and recoil a little. If you were standing looking over a wall, and the rounds whizzed by your head by a cm or two, then you should get the blur then for a short amount of time. But then slowly reduce back to just sway and recoil. So the blur and that is only at 100% suppressed but between 0 and 80% you just have sway issues.
rounds landing 10m away should not cause any suppression. I was taught that effective fire meant 1 round within 1m of the enemy every second. Anything further away or less frequent meant the enemy would still be fully functional and very dangerous.

This also means you don't need a persistent suppression mechanic. If you fix the sighting so engagement takes 4 seconds or so from sighting the target to first shot, you should get realistic results. As a camping (ahem) MG, I already have a fair idea where you are. If it takes you 4 seconds to pop up from cover, lay your sights on me, and fire then I will have put a burst through your head before you have gotten a shot off.

Flinching and sway should be enough and they only need to be applied briefly when a round passes within a meter of you.

4) Suppression should also happen from other weapons include rifles, if they miss you so you can hear the crack, then you should be suppressed momentarily.

5)Suppression should also be doubled if you are already wounded, in other words you do not want to get hit again.

6) Suppression while sprinting should not happen until you sprint is out (this is because your adrenaline has kick in and you are running to a better spot so your fear had not kicked in until your puffed.

7) Suppression should be linked to fatigue, if you are under suppression your fatigue should be higher to similar the effect of fear and stress. the body does not like running under those conditions.

8) If not in line of sight (so effectively in cover) suppression should not be as high as LOS suppression
Yes to all of these.
 
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List looks pretty good, but I have a few comments to make.

I don't think recoil needs to be adjusted too much (except for MG's). The base level in RO2 isn't bad. Just remember that the base level of recoil is much higher than most people will have in RO2 right now (due to the stats upgrades). While you claim it wont be as high as RO1 was, it better be a hell of a lot closer to RO2 than RO1. Because it was laughably over the top how the recoil was in RO1. Though as I'm very sure you're aware, it was much better in DH than RO1.

Regarding melee damage being reduced. I don't think bayonets should be changed. They should be consistent one hit killers. And while I can see how rifle butt/pistol whip damage is somewhat excessive now, if you reduce it as much as you state ("rifle butts will take several hits to kill") it will be utterly useless. The moment a melee kill takes longer than it would take to reload aim and shoot someone.... it's pointless.

As for the other changes. My advice is to make small incremental changes. Especially with things like jogging speed and the like it's very easy to get carried away and make sweeping changes. Far better to make small steps and see how it changes things. When combined, many seemingly tiny changes can make a drastic change to game play.
 
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@Witzig

As to the first video, I am skeptical about the 350 meters. It looks more like 250 meters. The second one, it just shows what I'm talking about. It still takes him twice as long as it took us and with half of our accuracy. I have no problem people getting that good, but complete noobs who have never played RO2 should fight like real life recruits in WW2 who had little training; they shouldn't be accurate at anything out of 100 meters. The sway as I wish to implement wont be uncontrollable jerks, rather smooth motions that the player has to get under control. The reason I know it's going to work out is because the first two Brothers in Arms had some exaggerated sway and recoil that made it almost impossible to hit anything farther than 30 meters, when starting out. But there were some guys on that game that got so good, that I felt like they were shooting lasers at me. If they could do it with such wild, uncontrollable sway, people will be able to do it in F&M with a much gentler sway.

@Proud_God - Nezzer

Good to see people want weapon jamming and actually find it fun. I will definitely make the frequency low, but not too low where it'll happen at the most inopportune time and people will be like "where the hell did this come from!". I will target around 5% of SMG clips, meaning that for every 20 clips you load and fire, one will jam at some point. Around 3.5% for semis and maybe 2% for bolts. I'll think about the MGs since they have such a huge difference in ammo capacity.

@Golf33

Excellent points, I guess I won't be editing the friendly fire suppression. Currently as it is, the suppression range in RO2 is about 4 meters. I may decrease it just a tad bit to about 2-3 meters, but I also don't wish to decrease it too much, if just for the fun factor. Now, I will look into possibly having two separate suppressoin ranges, one for aim-snapping and the other for morale effects. Aim-snapping is a side effect of getting shot and seeing the shot near you, however, morale is much more about the fact that you're getting shot at and that you fear the enemy, so it may be 5-6 meters, but people with low morale will think it's close enough and get scared.

@LordKhaine

I thought it was over the top in DH, especially with the Thompson. That thing was impossible to control while standing and required a lot of practice. My plan is to have a nice little in between, and not all weapons need it. The PPSH41 is fine as it is I think. Any burst over 3 shots and the recoil just becomes unwieldy.

@smith1215

I was in it and I didn't like that sway. It didn't simulate real life sway in my opinion and the main problem (I modded the weapons when we moved to CoD5 so I would know) is that there wasn't any way to rest your weapon, so if you were standing, you would always have that sway. I think RO2 will produce much more realistic sway that is somewhat similar to RRM in CoD2, but keeps looks and feels more natural.

@Omar The Insurgent

You don't need a mutator to do that. As a matter of fact, you don't need to do that with any mod for that matter, not even Rising Storm or In Country. The thing is, the download sizes will be so extreme for those mods, that it's better to just have people download it and install separately. I doubt my mod will get anywhere larger than 5 megabytes.
 
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Not to say that you're wrong but i paid some attention to which distances most fights happen and usually its sub 100m. And if i do not "aim" e.g. take my time to align the target i do miss some shots (esp. if people are in cover).

And i do end up on the Top End of the Scoreboard in most cases (pub plays). I dunno how my actual k/d ratio or Accuracy is like, since my stats are bugged to the moon and back.


Have you considered the possibilty that you're already the minority with very good skills ? And that's the reason you don't have problems hitting stuff.
 
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Not to say that you're wrong but i paid some attention to which distances most fights happen and usually its sub 100m. And if i do not "aim" e.g. take my time to align the target i do miss some shots (esp. if people are in cover).

And i do end up on the Top End of the Scoreboard in most cases (pub plays). I dunno how my actual k/d ratio or Accuracy is like, since my stats are bugged to the moon and back.


Have you considered the possibilty that you're already the minority with very good skills ? And that's the reason you don't have problems hitting stuff.

It's definitely something I have considered. I am also usually in the top in the scores and kills. So I know what I'm doing. However, these tests were in a controlled environment and the accuracy was throught he roof. Basically, accuracy right now does not even mimic firing in a range, by yourself. It's even more accurate than that. So if I can make firing equally accurate as the videos I'm seeing, then the stresses of combat (suppression effects and general jitters) will come into play and take care of the rest for us. Im not looking for unrealistic weapons, Im looking for realistic, and they currently are too accurate.
 
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Any chance of adding ADS with the LMG's? I don't want it easy enough that it'd end up being the primary stance people would use, so maybe add reasonably strong sway and/or recoil since they're so heavy, but I hate coming under fire from a distance, not being in a place where I can deploy it and having no way to return fire except to hip shoot blindly into the distance. And then die..... Or the only places you can deploy, like window ledges are instant sniper death, so you'd rather place yourself farther back in the room. The two stances now, deployed and hip shooting are great for distance and CQB, we need something for @50 - 75m.
 
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Any chance of adding ADS with the LMG's? I don't want it easy enough that it'd end up being the primary stance people would use, so maybe add reasonably strong sway and/or recoil since they're so heavy, but I hate coming under fire from a distance, not being in a place where I can deploy it and having no way to return fire except to hip shoot blindly into the distance. And then die..... Or the only places you can deploy, like window ledges are instant sniper death, so you'd rather place yourself farther back in the room. The two stances now, deployed and hip shooting are great for distance and CQB, we need something for @50 - 75m.

Definitely an option I will look into it.
 
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I found a variable MaxBulletWhizStrength among other things. I think this is doable and a good suggestion, updating the feature list.

As to whether I can do all these things, I don't see why not. There is so much code available as non-native, I would be surprised if I were limited at all. I'm also a game programmer by trade, so I know a thing or two about programming. :)

That variable may be not related to sound but instead the strength with which the near miss skews your aim.

i.e. when being fired at by an MG, and returning fire at that same MG, your aim will walk away with every bullet that whizzes by you.
 
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Any chance of adding ADS with the LMG's? I don't want it easy enough that it'd end up being the primary stance people would use, so maybe add reasonably strong sway and/or recoil since they're so heavy, but I hate coming under fire from a distance, not being in a place where I can deploy it and having no way to return fire except to hip shoot blindly into the distance. And then die..... Or the only places you can deploy, like window ledges are instant sniper death, so you'd rather place yourself farther back in the room. The two stances now, deployed and hip shooting are great for distance and CQB, we need something for @50 - 75m.
I'm completely against ADS with LMGs. The LMGs are already Rambo enough as they can clear a room better than an SMG. I like how it is in ROOST, where you carry the MG just like you carry the AT rifle, but you can enable hip fire by pressing the ADS button, making you walk really slow. MGs are weapons for medium-long distances. IRL they were not a good weapon for CQC.
 
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I think you could make it like what happens to the guy in this video:
Mosin Nagant Speed Shooting and Remedial Action Drills - YouTube
Bolting sometimes could be very smooth and sometimes could be a bit harder. Occasionally there could be small jams like in 0:55. I don't know if you could make it. Don't know if it's possible to do that in SDK and create chances of X% of jamming and rough bolting.

Yes, you could easily script random jamming. Just write a randomize function which returns 'jammed' a certain percentage of the time, maybe 20% of the time you have a delay as you try to eject the brass a second time. You could also have it completely stuck and have to unload and clear on rare occasions.

The jammed animations would be important, but fairly simple. You'd just have to rock back and forth between the two keyframes between locked and eject, which are existing assets already done by TW, then make sure the animations are at the correct frames once the jam is clear so it shows the new round being chambered.

/edit looks like most problems are with chambering a new round, but same idea.
 
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IRL they were not a good weapon for CQC.

Agreed, but neither are bolts and we all find ourselves in panic situations where we don't have the correct weapon but still try to get a few shots off to kill the other guy or at least suppress him. Add more recoil when they are not mounted to keep people from using them as a smg/rifle hybrid. I just find it very frustrating and unrealistic that you can't aim them at all except when they are deployed, it always feels like I've got my arms strapped to my sides.
 
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Agreed, but neither are bolts and we all find ourselves in panic situations where we don't have the correct weapon but still try to get a few shots off to kill the other guy or at least suppress him. Add more recoil when they are not mounted to keep people from using them as a smg/rifle hybrid. I just find it very frustrating and unrealistic that you can't aim them at all except when they are deployed, it always feels like I've got my arms strapped to my sides.
But if you enable ADS on MGs people will start using them like SMGs and going Rambo instead of staying back. An LMG is a support weapon, and it should stay as far from the enemies as possible. Hip fireing is more than enough for the MGs, and hip fire should one be possible if the player is not moving.
 
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