Finding Roles: What do we need?

[Salad Snake]

With those things already covered, and to make the pistolperk not purely a damage-class, i was thinking of something around the likes of naming the perk "Agent" or something more "intelligent" like that, instead of "Gunslinger". The perk could focus on pistols and something about intel, but i don't know what. Could also have these damage-amplifying markers spoken about earlier (that could also just be tossed onto burning enemies though, boosted by the Firebug perk... )

But so far i don't have much original progress what this pistol-based perk can bring which is purely new (well, i do have new ideas in terms of utilizing ZED-time, but that's only a new combat-style, not a new role)

Fresh thinking from timur, nice one mate.

The only role I found to be lacking would be along the lines of an Intel class.

This classes perk could be a means of telling what direction the ZEDs are coming from and keeping the team from being jumped. Off hand I could think of a couple of different ways to achieve this. Either a scalable minimap (lvl dependent) of a small area around you or a sort of 'heat/motion' vision (please don't hurt me to badly, these are just off the top of my head).

Although a good team would (or at least should) keep all avenues covered it might be good for when when team gets split or scattered, or for more interesting maps.

I posted that in the gunslinger thread but instead of having "magic vision" or "Brier Vision", hving a new tool (either slot 4 or 5) that does exactly that.

Dual wielding should be given to a class as a self defence weapon, not as their main weapon for damage.

This seems to be pointing toward a Scout class. Not like the TF2 Scout, who is more of a Marauder/mobile combatant (like the Zerker is in this game), but an actual light-weaponry, info-managing recon class (like the one in, say, Battlefield series). Pistols or SMG's would fit such a class (pistols in this case since SMG's seem to be Medic's territory), and as for abilities a sort of zed-sonar could be used to indicate visually or audibly the location of Zeds, or perhaps even where they are going to spawn from (since zed location isn't really that important when they're coming toward you anyway).

 

[Gartley]

This seems to be pointing toward a Scout class. Not like the TF2 Scout, who is more of a Marauder/mobile combatant (like the Zerker is in this game), but an actual light-weaponry, info-managing recon class (like the one in, say, Battlefield series). Pistols or SMG's would fit such a class (pistols in this case since SMG's seem to be Medic's territory), and as for abilities a sort of zed-sonar could be used to indicate visually or audibly the location of Zeds, or perhaps even where they are going to spawn from (since zed location isn't really that important when they're coming toward you anyway).

That at least was my thinking, I've not played enough Battlefield games to follow that reference but I get the gist of it.

I don't think audio is needed so much, as every ZED makes noise. For me at least it's redundant as playing with headphones I know where the ZED is coming from before I see it. But a visual aid runs the risk of cluttering things up. Not to mention when everything is going nuts on the front line you can't hear what's there. So being forewarned there is a FP approaching my flank could be a bonus.

I don't think using SMGs would step on Medic's toes. I think I'd prefer the term Scout over Gunslinger or Agent. Showing where they are going to spawn is a little immersion breaking I think. As far as we, the player, are concerned they are streaming in from around the local area. Rather than popping into existence round the corner. I think seeing where they are would help the team that is running and gunning, as it could prevent a nasty surprise running around a corner into FP/Siren/Scrake.

I think this would bring a new way of playing into the game that could freshen things up. We already have every means of dishing out various flavours of damage, let's try and reinforce the co-op element a little more.

(Sorry if this is sounding a little scatterbrained. I've been up a bit to long.)

 

[the 1st wasted]

So then he could be an Intel class of sorts. sent from command to help the troops with real time intel. Command is watching from sat's or survaliance craft, and then relaying that info to the Agent/scout/or what ever he would be called, and he in turn tells us what is comming and from which direction. something like that?

Would be a great thing to have on some of the larger maps.

 

[CandleJack]

I think we need something to see through the "smog" found on larger maps like Farm. Since a good many people would be shooting specimens if it wasn't for that, a believe having someone that can see through it and alert the team to incoming (but as of yet invisible) threats and devise a strategy to deal with it accordingly.

Alternatively something with X-ray vision or thermal imaging scopes (not weapon mounted) would be helpful yet not OP since you can't really do anything about it.

This could be tacked on to the "agent" perk, since it would be a great info-gathering tool.

My only problems is that it still could be OP, the same way the M14 was: unexpected or unintended usage; and that it could be impossible.

And rather than being lazy, voting me down and not not contributing, i ask you.

Help me to work this out, see if it is or isn't a workable idea. Enough good arguments for or against is required.

 

[the 1st wasted]

Hmmm. if he is limited to weak perk weapons, then I would say, fast movment, and good Kevlar like the medic, allowing him to be off on his own like a scout. Someone before mentioned something about a tag dart of sorts. This could be the alt fire for him, much like the MP7 dart. With it he could tag zeds such as fp's, the dart could be a strobe light, or something that would allow the team to be aware of the tagged Zeds where abouts, it could also relay what it is, how far away it is, and it's current health, and perhaps, the number of other zeds with it.

Example: FP 100% + 12, 110 meters NE (or an arrow pionting, a sonar type warning/map overlay).

The amount of darts, and the effectivness of said darts could improve as he levels up.
He could also have the ability to know when larger zeds are going to spawn, and where. This could also be level based.

 

[Aze]

Seems like the intel-based Agent isn't that unwanted after all?

 

[the 1st wasted]

Seems like the intel-based Agent isn't that unwanted after all?

I think it's a great idea. Something other than a kill / heal role.

 

[Gartley]

I think it's a great idea. Something other than a kill / heal role.

Bingo.

 

[Zoridium JackL]

something like the motion tracker from alien perhaps?

 

[Wannas]

I think the only spot that is unfilled in the team is a run-n'-gun perk. Gunslinger does fill this role well (though even 'Agent' doesn't quite fit with the KF style to my eyes). It just needs weapons that won't seem out of place.

But on the other hand perhaps this is just reinforcing the 5 Zerker/1 Medic gameplay style. I thought it might be splitting strategy into two distinct styles but that could be a bad thing, too...

 

[Gartley]

something like the motion tracker from alien perhaps?

I was thinking something like that. But would it be an item you had to hold out in front of you ala marine's MT, or a HUD element. I think it would be better as a hud element, as taking firepower away from the front line might not be a good idea.

I think the only spot that is unfilled in the team is a run-n'-gun perk. Gunslinger does fill this role well (though even 'Agent' doesn't quite fit with the KF style to my eyes). It just needs weapons that won't seem out of place.

But on the other hand perhaps this is just reinforcing the 5 Zerker/1 Medic gameplay style. I thought it might be splitting strategy into two distinct styles but that could be a bad thing, too...

Every class can currently run and gun, medic and zerkers a better at it due to speed. But a commando and a support can run in circles nailing everything. It's only really the FB and Sharpy that have a dissadvantage on the move.

I'm still in favor of an intel class rather than another damage outputter atm. (Partly becuase the whole duel wielding makes me cringe.)

 

[Lucidius134]

I'm still in favor of an intel class rather than another damage outputter atm. (Partly becuase the whole duel wielding makes me cringe.)

Me too. I also think it should be a tool that you pull out like the welder with maybe an off handed pistol (probably the 9mm).

If it was a hud element, you'de have operatives being like HURHUR I SEE GROUP THROUGH WALLS *uses LAW*.

It could work like the Ghost from Neotokyo.

As for a heat detector, larger mobs should produce more heat, meaning more visible. It should be easy to distinguish between large group of small things with a medium zed or 2 large zeds.

Having it as a tool instead of a hud piece would also avoid patty raping. if it was a hud piece, not only would it be 'magical' and immersion breaking, he'de be able to estimate where patty was and M32 him without any visuals.

 

[nutterbutter]

The only perks I think that are still available are

1) Slow firing, heavy damage AoE (something other than LAW)
2) Pure support that affects groups of specimens without killing them
3) Pure support that buffs or augments players. I know that "buffs" evokes some sort of mystical spells but I don't mean it that way.

 

[C_Gibby]

The only perks I think that are still available are

1) Slow firing, heavy damage AoE (something other than LAW)
2) Pure support that affects groups of specimens without killing them
3) Pure support that buffs or augments players. I know that "buffs" evokes some sort of mystical spells but I don't mean it that way.

They sound like alternate versions of support, firebug and medic. I think the pistol perk could have something that applies buffs to others or affects zeds in some way now that I think about it.

 

[Astifire]

The only perks I think that are still available are

1) Slow firing, heavy damage AoE (something other than LAW)
2) Pure support that affects groups of specimens without killing them
3) Pure support that buffs or augments players. I know that "buffs" evokes some sort of mystical spells but I don't mean it that way.

So... What about a 'Chemist' perk?

Performance increasing drugs for teammates, poisons for zombies which do various things, such as a tranquilizer for a fleshpound to force it out of rage, but virtually useless for every other critter save maybe scrakes, and adrenaline for teammates to make them run faster at the cost of screen shaking.

They could even support the role of slow firing damage dealer by (very slowly and carefully) preparing a nitroglycerine bomb to lob, of which they can only cary one per round.

Iunno, just something that popped into my head.

 

[Lucidius134]

Gives me an idea.

 

[Lubaz]

Gives me an idea.

Tell me....

 

[Lucidius134]

Tell me....

whoops, forgot to link.

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=719622&postcount=59

 

[Benjamin]

In my opinion the perks are already very thinly spread, overlapping each other due to lack of unique features. Many ideas suggested here would fit well in existing perks, and would give them a better defined role. For example someone above suggested a chemist perk, and some of the suggested features of it would fit the medic and make it much more interesting to play.

 

[Astifire]

Honestly if I was going to create a chemist perk though, I'd make it so they're incredibly veristile to play, but very specific during a round. IE a chemical sprayer weapon you can only load with one effect per wave, or having to swap out the healing hypodermic for a single, freely reusable hypo that recharges like the medic needle, which is *not* avaialble to other perks to prevent self medication.

Plus, a good level 6 medic is survivable enough without being able to de-rage fleshpounds chasing him/her down.