Fewer SMGs please!

[piller]

Kaukasus has a nice set of classes. 1 Leader who may have either a rifle or an SMG, 1 SMG, and 1 MG. The rest are rifleman.

It works perfectly. I don't see how lowing the SMG by 1 or two people completely changes "the balance". If its done equally on each side whats the big deal? I personally feel its a more enjoyable experience with less full auto weapons.

 

[Solo4114]

Well, then redo some of the maps as "Rifle Version" or something and lower the numbers. The great thing about this game is that if you don't like it, you can change it!

 

[Nebfer]

(edit: ergh I wasn't ready!!)

Humm where to begin?

RO is at most a company level game.

Both German and soviet Organizations changed over the war (more than once infact).

1941
German Rifle squad (foot)
Squad -10 men
7x K-98 rifles
1x MP-40
1x MG-34 MG
2x Side arms (the germans used a lot of diffrent types of pistoles durring the war)

platoon (49 men)
4x Squads
1x MP-40
4x K-98 rifles
3x side arms
1x 50mm mortar

Late 1943
Squad -9 men
6x K-98 rifles (with one or two semis if avalible)
2x MP-40s
1x MG-42 (or other type)
2x Side arms
1x Granade launcher

Platoon
3x squads
1x MP-40
4x K-98 rifles
2x side arms

Im not going get to much in depth on moterised units but needless to say thy had 2x MG-34/42s. armord squads where 10 and 8 men (1942 & 1944) and truck units where 12 and 10, both only had 1 SMG per squad.

Then theres Volks Grenadiers a platoon had 2 squads of 9 men armed with MP-40s or STG-44s (no MGs) and 1 squad armed with 2x MG-42s and 3x Rifle granadeds and the rest automatics.

Note Waffen SS units had the same equipment and organization (though early in the war thy had to make do with what ever thy could find.)
------------------------------------------------------------------
Soviet

1941 Squad -11 men
2x SMGs
8x Rifles
1x LMG

Platoon -39 men
3x Squads
1x SMG
3x Rifles
2x Side arms
1x 50mm Mortar

1942 squad (early) -9 men
1x SMG
1x LMG (only in half the squads)
7 or 8 Rifles

1942 squad (late) -9 men
1x SMG
1 or 2x LMGs
6 or 7 rifles

1942 platoon -40 men
4x Squads (2 or 6 LMGs depending on the time period.)
1x SMG
3x Rifles

1943 squad -11 men
1 or 2x SMGs
1x LMG
8 or 9 Rifles

Platoon -35 men
3x squads
1x SMG
1x rifle

around this time a large number of SMG units started showing up
thy varyed in orginazation but generaly had 3 squads of 8 or 9 men all armed with SMGs with a lone platoon commander with a SMG.

units formd from rifle units often held onto their LMGs though. (by mid 1944 most companys had atlest 1 platoon of SMGs and 2 of rifles. As well as a dedicated SMG company up at regiment level.)

sorce for all this comes from here
http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/index.htm

 

[murderous_eagle]

I'm still waiting for an early war map to include soviet assault troop doctrine.


That is: PPDs are more valuable than you and everything you love, have a pistol.

 

[Oldih]

around this time a large number of SMG units started showing up
thy varyed in orginazation but generaly had 3 squads of 8 or 9 men all armed with SMGs with a lone platoon commander with a SMG.

units formd from rifle units often held onto their LMGs though. (by mid 1944 most companys had atlest 1 platoon of SMGs and 2 of rifles. As well as a dedicated SMG company up at regiment level.)

sorce for all this comes from here
http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/index.htm

Somehow this source of yours sounds quite silly when it comes to comparing other sources or such. Or even the fact german squad system was quite funny and own kind of improvisation master.

It was not impossible to have a squad that had over 20 guys with a rifle. It was not impossible to have a squad with five guys that two had riflemen and LMG section. And the list goes on.

And the german squad system was entirely diffrent by structure and orgnisation: German infantry training stressed independent thinking for all of its soldiers, and thus effective and opportunistic action was within the capability of any german group no matter how small or who was left in charge.

Sure by end of '44 and beginning of '45 this might not have been the case, but generally speaking german squad was rather independent from it's squadleader.


Only real problem with this crap is that you can't simulate a squad ingame without dedicated people. Even if I want to have 5-man rifle element, 3-man LMG team and NCO who leads the squad we still can't portray "true" tactics ingame or organisation. So generally speaking organisation ideas are quite dull, to be honest. Problem is, that there's too much variable crap. Standardisity might do the trick, but then we have forced idea that "All X had Y".