Fallen Fighters: Just move the capzones

[Squad Leader]

I agree with the OP on this one. The park is just one big kill zone. This and previous maps mentioned are tank maps so maybe that has something to do with it. There is so much arty and sniper fire the only logical approach is camping the sewers and hugging the fringes of the map.

I love playing commander on this map.

 

[Drot]

Fallen Fighters is the best map, biggest problem is that there are players who camper in their spawn and teamkilling those who try to cap zone. The map is not for beginners.

 

[palanoid]

i quite enjoy crawling from one side of the park to the other though,the feeling of crawling under a hail of bullets could be one of the best moments in this game.

 

[roman123]

so i was playing fallen fighters earlier today and as usual the ai hullgunners and marksmen where the only people actually getting kills while everyone else was either hiding somewhere or running into the capzone only to have their head popped. I got to thinking about why that map is so little fun and i've come to decide it's because the capzones force you to take an area of pretty much no strategic value.

Every other capzone (well, most of them) on every other map is a strong point of some kind, realistically without the capping mechanics you would try to take those areas anyway. For example on pavlov's house all the capzones are buildings that hold some strategic value (possible exception being january square) and controlling them not only moves your spawns closer but provides a stronger position to fight from.

In fallen fighters, however, the park is of no real use. If the game didn't force you to take the park no one in their right mind would try to secure an area with mostly only waist high cover watched over by 3 story firing positions and tanks. The park should be something you simply pass through, not something to capture.

Basically what i want to suggest is this. Remove the capzones in the park and make the 2 remaining capzones a bit bigger (they should contain each hq plus overlap with the nearest buildings and the park wall). The way the buildings are laid out attacking the bases directly or from the flanks are both valid, so most of the map will still be used but now you don't have to lay prone in a fountain for 2 hours to take one capzone.

There are probably a few other things you could do, like add more cover to the park. But i think this would be very easy to do and have a pretty drastic effect on gameplay.

+1

 

[nuNce]

Wait what???

I am unable to comprehend the logic of this post, or must I conclude that it has none?

As someone mentioned in the post above this, it's not a beginners map, it's a sweaty and dirty map, where you have to fight for every inch of territory you can. Honestly, campers are not a big deal for me on it, if I hear someone shooting from the windows I usually look for a small gap somewhere in the park and check the building for campers. Usually getting them is pretty easy. Also, with a good commander you can easily get into those buildings by rushing sides and clear for all that camping scum there is. Getting 10-15 kills it's not unusual that way, once you're inside you can really make a big mess of the opposite team.
The fact is that people don't like challenges anymore, they just want to respawn as fast as they can and run for the frontline again, which is really a CoD logic. In FF the big difference is that you pay for actually losing a life, by the fact that you're going to need some time to get in place again, but that's the kind of game I'm looking for!

 

[roman123]

1.
Anyone noticed that the half of your team is just camping at the
buildings at the sides?
The half russian team is sitting in the building at, when i remember
correctly, G4 and shoots the map middle from this higher position.
... when you start to move, you are instantly
cannon fodder.
.

this are the problems on this map, another thing is:
no clear frontlines, the opponents come from all directions.

 

[Verluste]

The FallenFighters in the old RO1 was far better. I dont know why, but you didnt get insta-sniped when you ran abit in the open to get to cover.

Also, the armorcombat in RO1 is far better than that of RO2. I mean COME ON bots racking up tens of kills with the MG? No such thing in RO1.
The machinegun bot in the tanks, on comined arms maps, is just ridiculous. They still make headshots through smokescreens. And without a smokescreen, no matter how well hidden you are, you get shot by them.

The bad, not-well thought out implementation of the tanks in the combined arms maps are a major letdown for alot of people.

Who else here finds the old FallenFighters better?

 

[Gaan]

I've not played FF on Relaxed Realism, so obviously I'm unaware how well it plays under that ruleset - I imagine the kill-cam for one makes for a vicious snipe-counter-snip-counter-snipe cycle.

That said, when not having to deal with the messiness of 'combined arms' FF has produced some of the best micro-engagements I've found in RO2, often at/around tunnel entrances. Whilst the capzones seem odd from a strategic standpoint, they don't actually force you to cross the park directly unless you're trying to push out enemy forces (with the commensurate extra risk from snipers/MGs/lazy bolters covering their teammates). A lot of fighting seems (quite sensibly) to occur up the flanks of the park outside the walls, where lines of fire are significantly shorter.

As for spawn-building camping, in my experience the russian team does seem to be somewhat more predisposed to this, possibly due to more intuitive access to the upper floors. But really all that should be up there are MGs and marksmen. If tanks worked properly in Combined Arms maps, this would be a self-correcting problem thanks to HE shelling, but since a tanker racks up more kills by breaking lines with his AI hull MG, and will almost invariably concentrate on taking out opposing tanks spawn camping tends to be solved by a Peppy or Mkb wielding lone-gunman squeezing through the narrow gap between the lines of fire or the instagib zone.

As for the capping infantry, I invariably see the side that uses tunnels to move win if only one does - and those who use craters. As a boltie your job is to get your backside into a crater until the zone is capped. It gets you points, helps you win and stops you getting your head shot off quite so easily. Does all this better than sitting a story up drawing attention to your friendly MG location to boot.

tl:dr - tanks more of a problem than cap zones, plus boltie 'Imasniper' tendencies

 

[Icey_Pain]

In FF the big difference is that you pay for actually losing a life, by the fact that you're going to need some time to get in place again, but that's the kind of game I'm looking for!

This sounds more like countdown to be honest, Firefight encourages spawning on other teammembers a lot. Which means that there's no need to get in place.

 

[triple25mm]

I think adding more capzones in the buildings beside the HQs would make the map a lot more fun. That way, you could choose how you want to get there. Making the HQ capzones large enough to encompass other buildings will disuade people from entering and clearing out the HQs. Maybe, adding 2 or 3 capzones to the HQ buildings would make them more fun to clear?

 

[clambo]

I'd like to see more a lot more fog / smoke / snow - so it closes up the engagement distances
and gives me more of a chance to hunt tanks as engineer / AT rifle.

 

[Westernesse]

I'd like to see more a lot more fog / smoke / snow - so it closes up the engagement distances
and gives me more of a chance to hunt tanks as engineer / AT rifle.

I'd like to see something that closes up the engagement distances. Right now its a great map if your MG/Commander/Mark/Tanker and not very much fun for a lot of the other classes. I can play MGer and sit up against a pillar in my sides building and get 50+ kills in a match while only dying 0-1 times. I snipe the enemy MGer/Marksman and hide by a pillar so if I'm taking fire they need to have good bullet penetration to kill me from their building. I can then hit anyone not covering in the park, but usually I'm hitting people coming out of their building/ getting into the park. So that's 50+ kills with an avg kill distance of 175m-225m. It's really boring. The map is kinda fun as commander since you get arty, but also get to get down there and take points.

 

[Krobar]

Is it just me or when having graphics set lower there's a lower draw distance making it easier for people who have higher graphics to see the other side and pick me off in my spawn building when I can't even see them.

 

[TOPMO3]

I still don't understand why people complain about this map. This is probably my most favorite map to play on. I love the pace of this battle. It's an eerie quiet blend, broken up by intense action. Perfect!

I have played with a friend on mumble, and she was complaining that she didn't "get" this map, and I feel this is true for most people. The trick to playing this map is finding and using cover always. As soviets, just think of it as you should not be up higher than crouched at ANY time if you're out in the street or park. Run from crater to crater, and as soon as you hit the street move up to the little barrier that separates the park from the street. If you are crouched, you CANNOT get sniped from the AXIS spawn, same goes for Axis. From there, you can cap C, B, or D. You do NOT need to be in the park to cap these zones. Both sides can cap each central point from their side of the street.

As mentioned earlier, use smoke if you're SL and TL. Other than that, use tunnels, and creep up to the points you want to take. I also recommend sneaking into the park in either prone or crouched, and creep up towards enemy positions from THEIR side of the park. So as allies, spawn in the south of the park, move to the axis side of the park, and creep up to C and D. Often times Axis will run right into the park and not expect you there. As axis do the opposite, move into D, and crawl along the wall towards the south.

Great map, wouldn't change a thing, except of course that damn Protected Area once your point gets capped. Garbage!

 

[AmazingMilto]

I find the problem with Fallen Fighters is how unbalanced it is, the Russian building at their spawn is superior to the Germans.

Its closer to the objectives and has a much wider view. This generally means even a decent German team will struggle. Although its good for me, because I enjoy becoming the "Pistol Hero" and sneaking into the building and putting bullets into each Russian one-by-one and watching them faceplant the windowframe.