Fair class selection and realistic loadouts

[Golf33]

I'm interested to see if there's much support for this idea.

I'd like to see class roles be opened up by squad, as more players join the server and full up a squad, the next squad opens up. America's Army 3 did out this way and it worked very well. Just include the support slots within each squad and you're good to go.

As a suggestion, you could scale the squads on a 64 player server something like this:

Starting slots:
1 x platoon commander (SMG) + 1st squad with:
1 x squad leader (rifle or SMG)
1 x LMG
1 x AT rifle
1 x assault (SMG)
1 x elite rifleman (assault rifle, semi-auto or rifle)
6 x rifleman

When those slots are all full, open up the 2nd squad with:
1 x squad leader (rifle or SMG)
1 x LMG
1 x pioneer (rifle)
2 x assault (SMG)
7 x rifleman

When those slots are all full, open up the 3rd squad with:
1 x squad leader (rifle or SMG)
1 x LMG
1 x AT rifle
1 x elite rifleman (assault rifle, semi-auto or rifle)
4 x rifleman

In maps with tanks, I would replace a rifleman and an assaulter in second squad with tank roles for the first tank, and replace the elite rifleman and an assaulter in third squad with rules for the second tank.

By only opening slots in a squad once the squad before it is full, you should find that some people with fast load times are put into rifle slots on the first squad, instead of just taking all the specialist slots in squads 2 and 3 as is currently the case. Folk with longer load times will have a good chance at getting a specialist slot in squad 2 or 3 as these are opening up as they join.

The basic idea could be tweaked to improve the way it works once player behaviour is taken into account:

- players joining but holding off picking a class until second squad specialist slots are available: fix by automatically allocating players to an open slot within 5 or 10 seconds of selecting a team

-players joining and picking rifle to open up second squad, then switching as soon as it becomes available: only let players change slot once all players on the team have made their initial slot selection

 

[Golf33]

Bother. Too slow to post the poll. Could one of the mods please add a poll to this thread:

Topic: in Realism mode, would you like to see class slots open up as each squad is filled?
Opt 1: yes, using the class loadouts suggested
Opt 2: yes, using different class loadouts (please post details)
Opt3: no, class selection needs changes but I don't like this idea
Opt4: no, class selection is perfect already

 

[Morello]

Done.

 

[Spiderlok]

This system sounds fair enough, but it does take away the flexibility of switching classes and squads.

One such problem that arises from this is that I play this game a lot with a friend of mine.

With the current class selection system, I can easily make sure we both join the same squad (regardless of class), and battle alongside each other while not going against squad integrity.

If this is implanted, I'd like to see something that allow friends to stay together.

It's a game, so it's better to facilitate this over having the absolute realism of "you don't choose which squad you go to". If friends ended up in different squads, they would break away from their squad leaders to find their companions (not that people stick to their leaders any better now, but you get the point).

 

[luciferintears]

yes there is only one discrepancy though; why is the assault rifle even available in realism mode?

i rather someone take all the mkb42's and throw them off a cliff, along with the ridiculous unlock system; at least for realism mode.

otherwise i like this idea.

 

[NoxNoctum]

Get rid of prototype weapons completely. Most people interested in modes with more rifles don't want them at all anyways.

 

[MarioBava]

Personally I don't mind the current weapon loadout, especially now that servers have the power to limit weapons. Heck, I don't even hate the Mkb.

But I would like a more fair class selection. I currently use the shadersondemand tweak to speed up load times and usually have no trouble picking the class I want, but I feel for the people for whom --for whatever reason-- this isn't an option. The squad-filling idea is partly good but I dont like the drawback that others pointed out where it makes it harder to join the same squad as friends.

I had an idea for a class lottery where players choose 1 and 2 preferred classes while/before the map loads on a timed selection screen, then the server conducts the lottery with anyone who does not "win" either of their 1st or 2nd choices gets relegated to rifleman.

There could be some problems with the lottery idea, one that I can think of would be the same question of how it interacts with the squad selection process. If you didn't get your preferred weapon and the squad you were going to join filled up with those who did, you'd be out of luck, so ultimately you have the same problem as with the squad-filling idea. Another would be the inevitable perception by some that it's "unfair" (even though a lottery is very fair in that everyone has an equal chance) they didn't get the class they wanted and were used to being able to get because their machine is very fast.

Maybe it would just be better to have a timed role/squad selection screen before the new map loads, making it less about who has the faster machine but who picks the role first. And make squad selection the default view so that people who want to join a squad are not put at a disadvantage. And divorce weapon selection from role selection so that doesn't artificially slow you down, either.

 

[LionbI4]

YES YES YES!

Americas Army has best weapon selection mechanism ever.
I don't mind having current weapon loadout, and I think this is map-specific settings.
But wait, I thought this is already implemented?
If you have more players - more squads with different roles you can choose.

Main features:
1. Ability to swap weapons with someone without suicide
2. Class reset each x rounds. Force players to choose their weapons/squads again.

If 2 is not possible, then it should be possible to force player to swap weapons with you (if he has less points collected)

Already discussed here: http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=12816

 

[Spiderlok]

The squad-filling idea is partly good but I dont like the drawback that others pointed out where it makes it harder to join the same squad as friends.

If me and my friend have different loading times, we would be assigned to different squads since my squad would have been filled up before he comes in.

Still, I'd like this idea implanted and this is a minor thing I'd like to see addressed.

If 2 is not possible, then it should be possible to force player to swap weapons with you (if he has less points collected)

I'm in doubt with this. If I were a skilled asshole, I would be like, 'here, take this gun with 1 round left and let me have your rifle instead, it's not like you'd be spending those bullets very well anyway, k thanks, bye.'

Besides, some players might constantly switch weapons with nearby players just for situational purposes and annoy the heck out of everyone.

 

[hellcat420]

no thanks, im not a fan of forcing people to use weapons they dont like.

 

[Golf33]

no thanks, im not a fan of forcing people to use weapons they dont like.

The idea here would only be applied to realistic-mode servers, relaxed mode should stay as it is. However people who are playing on realism servers might generally want more historically authentic team loadouts - this is just a way of achieving that authenticity.

 

[Nezzer]

no thanks, im not a fan of forcing people to use weapons they dont like.

Then COD or BF is your game, because this is a war game, and in WW2 most soldiers didn't get to choose their weapons.

 

[redbeard]

then cod or bf is your game, because this is a war game, and in ww2 most soldiers didn't get to choose their weapons.

THIS IS A WAR GAME!!

 

[Agent()()9]

At first I liked this idea, then thought "What if a group of my friends and me wanted to join a server and squad-up?" Setting class limits like this would seriously hinder our ability to all join the same squad.

I think the idea is good, but only as a non-default server option.

 

[Bluehawk]

THIS IS A WAR GAME!!

They've really streamlined the HHL's design.

 

[Cyper]

How can someone POSSIBLY be agianst increased realism?

Jeez, these people should have their votes and posts reviewed before it's possible to publish it.

 

[fruitbat]

Jeez, these people should have their votes and posts reviewed before it's possible to publish it.

...be careful what you wish for - they might also censor needlessly repetitive posts banging on and on and on about personal preferences

 

[Proud_God]

Done.

"Done", as in 'Done, I have voted' or "Done", as in 'we will implement this'?

 

[Schmidt Fritz]

I'm thinking this from the please-remove-the-reaction-minigame from RO2.

From the dawn of things there has been this click-rapidly-button -method for selecting your team and class. Even if you are master in clicking and reflex selecting, the outcome is pretty much random on average. Remove this.

And if you did a really good job clicking those buttons, the server autobalance will eventually ruin it for you.

Just let players select their team first. If there's an unbalance, randomly suffle players a bit. If a player gets suffled to opposite team, don't suffle him more in server autobalance/next map start.

Let players select their class first. If some class has too many players, randomly suffle to rifle class. Or, make a system where player has preference of classes.

Current system comes down to the rig and loading times you use; currently brand new gear gets the sniper and older spare part rigs gets the rifleman. We have seen this already.

Anyways, in my opinion, anything is better than rage-clicking-fest spiced up with reaction-point-and-click olympics.

If you would really want to put effort in this and introduce some novel stuff, why not implement some kind of logic in random suffling involving steam friends and/or regiment tags?

 

[Golf33]

How can someone POSSIBLY be agianst increased realism?

Jeez, these people should have their votes and posts reviewed before it's possible to publish it.

Now, now, if I didn't want to see opposing points of view I wouldn't have posted a poll! I'm not going to get in a huff when people answer honestly and I don't think you need to do so on my behalf (although I do appreciate the expression of support).

For the issue of friends wanting to squad together, a simple swap-request system should work ok. There are always likely to be people who will be happy to swap their bolt-action rifle for an auto in a different squad if asked nicely!