Exiting Tanks

[Lucan946]

#1

Exiting tanks is gamey

W-hat.

No, it's not. If my tank has a tread knocked off, half of the crew is dead, or our turret's been disabled and there's no way that we're gonna be able to get back to base safe, I'm out of there. It should have a long, drawn-out exit animation, to make it easy for exiting tank crew to be shot,

 

[dogbadger]

W-hat.

No, it's not. If my tank has a tread knocked off, half of the crew is dead, or our turret's been disabled and there's no way that we're gonna be able to get back to base safe, I'm out of there......

....and back to spawn automatically,when you await a new tank- at least i assume that's the general idea...

 

[Lucan946]

....and back to spawn automatically,when you await a new tank- at least i assume that's the general idea...

And is that really gamey? Sure, in real life I would be without a tank for a while. However, just like artillery, it's a means to an end. Real battles did indeed feature copious amounts of artillery. Sure, platoon leaders would usually not find themselves calling it in, but it did feature, in the same way that replacement tanks for de-tanked crews surely existed.

Plus, if I bail out, chances are I'm dead, aren't they? If I'm not shot clambering out of my (potentially burning) wreck of a tank, then I'm now a infantryman with nothing but a pistol and a few magazines. If I do indeed manage to make it back to spawn alive after going through that, do I not deserve a chance to get back into a tank and have another go?

 

[10-78 BusterKing]

Yes, but like pretty much every feature in the game that we've mentioned that people are asking us to reconsider, they need to wait for the beta and actually play with the systems before they can give real feedback.

Fair enough.

Can't wait to play the beta.

And thanks for interacting with us. Very much appreciated.

 

[SheepDip]

Plus, if I bail out, chances are I'm dead, aren't they? If I'm not shot clambering out of my (potentially burning) wreck of a tank

So why bother presenting the option to get out? If you're dead meat that is...
Let's face it, the reason people bailing from damaged tanks in RO was so successful was because it was implemented so poorly. If they actually took the trouble to realistically implement it - think about it, you're going to die everytime, whether it's a tank you're in combat with or regular infantry.

 

[Lucan946]

they've said that passengers will not be able to exit apcs.

I lol'd.

So why bother presenting the option to get out? If you're dead meat that is...

Because there's a small chance I'm not. If I do stay in the tank, I know I am dead. However, if I bail, I might not be. This is true of many things that occur in games. I know I'm dead if I stay here, and I'm probably dead if I run around the corner, but probably is better than certainly, isn't it?

 

[Roland777]

I think people around here forget just how valuable trained tank-crews were. At the height of the war, both sides were churning out mat

 

[worluk]

I think people around here forget just how valuable trained tank-crews were. At the height of the war, both sides were churning out mat

 

[Mormegil]

I lol'd.



Because there's a small chance I'm not. If I do stay in the tank, I know I am dead. However, if I bail, I might not be. This is true of many things that occur in games. I know I'm dead if I stay here, and I'm probably dead if I run around the corner, but probably is better than certainly, isn't it?

You're still missing the point. If you are on foot, you aren't an effective tanker. So cut out the middle-man, and respawn with your new tank at base instead of huffing it back as a useless infantryman without a rifle.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the game considers you dead when your combat ineffective. If you're infantry, that means a crippling wound (say stomach shot). For a tanker that means a broken tank.

 

[dogbadger]

And is that really gamey?....

well i guess your repawning just like infantry do, which is always gamey - the difference being you have the option to respawn as a result of being ineffectual, not necessarily dead.
you could equate it to games where you're down injured and rather than wait for a medic decide to 'give up' and respawn, the difference being you cannot be patched up of course - which is more realistic anyway.

However there maybe be an option to respawn when a tank is available and do whatever you can (even if it's just observing the enemy) until then.

 

[Uffz.Juschkat]

Yes, but like pretty much every feature in the game that we've mentioned that people are asking us to reconsider, they need to wait for the beta and actually play with the systems before they can give real feedback. .

Yes, for gaming I understand the concept of going down in the tank since bailing out (depending on the level) MIGHT get you some kills as a tank crew man with pistol or sub-machine gun. Very true Ramm, so release the game to us lol I guess I'll have to look into beta testing. Too bad TWI couldn't release the game this past August seeing that, that was essentially the opening fighting in the city itself back in '42.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

my opinion: players should be able to exit their tanks in combined arms maps but not the tanks only map. leaving your tank should be fully animated so that it's not a simple way to avoid getting killed in an "about to be destroyed" tank. it's completely idiotic to claim that tankers would never exit their vehicles in real life. for gameplay's sake i can see how it'd be a problem on tanking only maps, but in CA maps? if the guy is in a burning tank and can save himself by exiting, the only logical response is that they should have that ability.

the issue is that in ROOST, it was unrealistic. so in ROHOS one would think, well just MAKE it realistic this time, especially since everything else about the tanks has been made to be so realistic. would it not be contradictory to claim "these are the most realistic tanks ever in an fps" but completely stop people from doing something that would be realistic like opening the hatch and climbing out?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

two exploitable issues involved with bailing:

Capping: players bailing out just to hide in the capzone.
solution: if a tanker leaves his tank how about the tanker, now foot soldier, would only have 1/2 of the capping power as a normal infantryman? that would eliminate this issue

Reinforcements: death of the tank doesn't count towards %, just the deaths of the crew....."killing" a "dead" tank didn't affect reinforcements and it should
solution: if crewman decide to leave the tank and save their lives, make the actual tank worth something towards reinforcements. say a tank is worth 2 points for a kill + 1 point for each crew killed (their actual 'lives'). that way killing a "dead" tank will get points and subtract reinforcements regardless of crew bailing or not.

 

[Redit]

Skip to 3:00. Not WW2 but the same thing applies, run away from your tank and you die. (Waltz with Bashir, animated film about the experiences of IDF soldiers in the 1982 Lebanon war.)

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LSNBal1_tE

 

[dunaman]

Of course its 3 lol

 

[213]

Skip to 3:00. Not WW2 but the same thing applies, run away from your tank and you die. (Waltz with Bashir, animated film about the experiences of IDF soldiers in the 1982 Lebanon war.)

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LSNBal1_tEhttp://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LSNBal1_tE

bailing from your tank is not a guaranteed death sentence. the point isn't whether you die or not, but whether it makes sense for your character to be running around in the map even though you have outlived your usefulness. it's not the equivalent of dying necessarily, it could be the equivalent of running back to friendly lines...except it would be redundant to allow this, or allow the tanker an opportunity to go suicide grenade an enemy platoon(which is what happens 90 percent of the time when you allow this). instead you are transported into the role of another tanker back at base.

 

[Flanker15]

Considerer it purely from a gameplay perspective:
What's better for your team?
-You scuttle your tank and have a new tank after you respawn.
-You jump out of your tank and play as a useless infantry man then die and wait to respawn with a new tank, denying your team a tank for a longer period of time while contributing nothing in return.

 

[reyalpOR]

#3

With an addition

 

[Flanker15]

#3

With an addition

That's the alternative/addittion that I was thinking of, scuttle makes bots that run back to the spawn while you wait to respawn. But the work to animate it doesn't really outway the return, so it'd be a side project later on.
Abstracting the retreating crew would be good enough at release.

 

[Attilaken]

I would prefer 3, but I understand TWI's logic.

What I do hope besides that, is that when a tankcommander decides to scuttle the tank, the tank itself doesn't disappear instantly from the battlefield. As we all know walking behind a tank for cover was a known tactic for infantry and I personally use it a lot in RO:OST and Darkest Hour. Also when a tank has been destroyed, that bunch of metal still can be a perfect position to take cover for infantry or even can become a good 'point-to-point' sprinting spot to allow infantry to run towards the next capzone.

I understand at some point destroyed tanks need to be removed from the map to keep system performance up, but I hope it can be done with a certain delay.

 

[Mormegil]

my opinion: players should be able to exit their tanks in combined arms maps but not the tanks only map. leaving your tank should be fully animated so that it's not a simple way to avoid getting killed in an "about to be destroyed" tank. it's completely idiotic to claim that tankers would never exit their vehicles in real life.

I don't think anybody's arguing it wouldn't happen in real life.

The point is, when you leave your tank, you aren't an effective tanker. You are combat ineffective as your chosen role. It is equivalent to being a critically injured/crippled (but living) infantryman.

Neither of these scenarios need to be modeled.