Elitism in the community is killing the population

[DirtySpartan]

it was one of the balance changes made to compensate for zeds not becoming just more and more tanky when you up the difficulty.

Everything is tankier than it was in KF1 and all zeds except stalkers and crawlers also do less damage. Scrakes and fleshpounds do almost no damage and only kill you by trapping you in corners or in groups of teleported zeds. I think KF2's balance and mechanics are whack.

 

[oldmidget]

Everything is tankier than it was in KF1 and all zeds except stalkers and crawlers also do less damage. Scrakes and fleshpounds do almost no damage and only kill you by trapping you in corners or in groups of teleported zeds. I think KF2's balance and mechanics are whack.

i honestly havent looked at the numbers in kf1 in a while, can you refresh my memory because i remember especially trash requiring more shots to take out on the harder difficulties.

 

[2Clicks]

Well, scrakes were a bit too easy to kill with flinch/stun chaining but yeah kill combos too. I mostly meant that as a player you could have a sizeable impact on the game. One of my most fun games of kf1 was on transit HoE where we had a afk person and I had to hold a hallway by myself, switching between rapidly headshotting everything and doing kill combos on big zeds ending the match with 1100+ kills, which definitely wasn't easy. I could manage it because I didn't make a single mistake. That simply won't happen in KF2, no matter how good you are or how long you play.

Then it seems that what you want by "methodical" gameplay is slowed down zeds. And maybe less in-your-face spawning. (Lower spawn rates too prolly) Is that right? So you have the time to kill them piecemeal.

If that is true then those changes are minor in implementation but huge in terms of concept/design. It comes back to what plays want from KF2. I prefer the current frantic nature of combat. Personally I think its methodical but on 'Speed.' With great players who choose the right mix of perks and really understand the mechanics, maps, and spawns and have played together so know how each other plays then you can take down waves on HoE without any trouble. And from a co-oping pov thats perfect. But only if you are lucky enough to play in a group/clan. Otherwise if you play with randoms or solo, gameplay is more hurried in nature. Less precise and therefore a lot less methodical.

Maybe the game will get tweaked down the line but Id wager it would be more likely that mods will appear to slow down zeds, lower spawn rates and make their spawns alot more interspersed. Personally I prefer the more frantic nature of KF2. I dont really want to play KF1.2. But thats just me. Though if the community as a whole gets TW to move in that direction I have no issues.

Not sure what this has to do with elitism but there you go....

 

[DirtySpartan]

i honestly havent looked at the numbers in kf1 in a while, can you refresh my memory because i remember especially trash requiring more shots to take out on the harder difficulties.

If you're talking headshots then crawlers, stalkers, clots, gorefasts and bloats could all be decapped with two 9mm headshots. Gorefasts in kf2 require 4 9mm headshots. Bloats 6+ afaik. Special version zeds are bullet sponges. SC and FP are damageless bullet sponges. Hans is a instakill melee combo bulletsponge. Patty is an impossible to chase down when healing bullet sponge. This went in a way different direction than I thought when they mentioned they weren't just going to make everything into a bullet sponge to increase 'difficulty'.

Then it seems that what you want by "methodical" gameplay is slowed down zeds. And maybe less in-your-face spawning. (Lower spawn rates too prolly) Is that right? So you have the time to kill them piecemeal.

...

Yeah I don't know how we got here either. This thread is just flamebait but nobody bit so now we're discussing random things I guess. I myself would much prefer KF1.2 and I'll definitely be looking into mods like that. Though you've got one thing wrong, I'd much prefer way more zeds on screen and an increased spawnrate to compensate for the zeds' slower speed. Basically I want continuous pressure where one mistake will cost you the game. This also includes zeds actually doing damage and you having a real chance of dying to one zed instead of chip damage from many zeds. KF2 is way too forgiving in some regards and it tries to speed up and bullet sponge everything too much to compensate.

 

[Skalli]

Since we were talking about the playerbase and I really don't want to open a new thread (I already tried that in KF1 years ago), here is what I think.

I am a HoE player and my Steam list consists mostly of Kf players for years now.
A new game mode would be fun, I guess. But what would keep me and a few others coming back, would rather be some end-game progression. Even if it's only visual for now. I am talking about some sort of prestige levels.

I didn't even touch the last gamemode in KF1 and quit doing all achievements years ago, simply because leveling was not possible anymore.

I would rather see a system implemented where you can get from 25 to 50 with NO further stats increase and an additional "hardcore" option for servers in Hell on Earth. I would rather not see a whole new difficulty because there are too few players already. I would implement friendly fire as a "must have" for that "Hardcore HoE" where only in this mode every prestige level up to 50 decreases your friendly damage you take by 0.5 percent. That would be a challenge, atleast for me.

Edit: Additional info. Every HC HoE server has friendly fire damage of 25%, so at prestige 50 you would take 12.5% damage.


Skalli

 

[ZombieNinja]

Truthfully speaking...OP has a point about elitism in the community. I never remember it being this bad in KF1, people were much more chilled out and more patient with newbies from experience rather than spamming "get gud" like condescending arseholes.

Here's a few examples:
- Guy saying Suicidal = level 20 or above only, a few idiots say "it's not that hard" etc: http://steamcommunity.com/app/232090...8031948083654/
- Someone saying Patriarch is OP on normal and a couple of stupid "get gud" posts: https://steamcommunity.com/app/23209...9439676844773/
- Plus I've seen enough "get gud" posts to have an aneurysm on there -_-

KF1's gameplay was more methodical and the player could pull off some pretty impressive feats but in KF2 you'll quickly find yourself shooting off randomly, running away and then running into teleported zeds. Fun stuff

Literally the most accurate thing I've read today. It's hard to be consistent on solo HoE in KF2 thanks to zeds just suddenly spawning at the end of an alleyway/right behind you. Not impossible though. Stylish kills are easier in KF2 as fall damage is much more forgiving, physics are hilariously OTT and them bunching up makes for some nice multikills with grenades/shotguns but in terms of functional talent...you're right. Solo carrying a losing MP game seems to be a lost art in KF2, I guess Tripwire paid more attention to the loud vocal minority who got sick of long kiting to clutch the game. Hence the teleporting zeds and in-map spawns designed to throw you off.

As much as I like KF2, it feels more like a AAA game with Michael Bay influences instead of the gritty functional B-Movie shooter we all love and adore. The characters' voicelines in KF1 cracked me up, the trader was loveable even when she gave you hell for running late to her shop. Can't stand the trader in KF2 at all, frequently a jerk for no reason not even a backstory as to why she's so snide towards you unless you wreck a Scrake/FP or your team perform well on multiplayer. I honestly feel like doing a Doomguy on the pod next time she tells me "not to bleed on anything" LOL. >.<

 

[Cinderblocks]

"Git gud" is some macro the Steam forum kids have. It's either a troll or vapid posturing. To be an elitist you have to first be elite, and I'd be curious how many posters there have more hours playing than perk training.

I will say that KF2 is making me a bit of an elitist because the game is so fast that it's hard to suffer incompetent teammates. The only solution is to play as a excellent-at-everything perk like zerk or SWAT, but I don't want to play those all the time. I try a few servers every day and find a decent group about once a week.

 

[2Clicks]

1. Truthfully speaking...OP has a point about elitism in the community. I never remember it being this bad in KF1, people were much more chilled out and more patient with newbies from experience rather than spamming "get gud" like condescending arseholes.

2. Here's a few examples:
- Guy saying Suicidal = level 20 or above only, a few idiots say "it's not that hard" etc: http://steamcommunity.com/app/232090...8031948083654/
- Someone saying Patriarch is OP on normal and a couple of stupid "get gud" posts: https://steamcommunity.com/app/23209...9439676844773/
- Plus I've seen enough "get gud" posts to have an aneurysm on there -_-


3. Literally the most accurate thing I've read today. It's hard to be consistent on solo HoE in KF2 thanks to zeds just suddenly spawning at the end of an alleyway/right behind you. Not impossible though. Stylish kills are easier in KF2

4. you're right. Solo carrying a losing MP game seems to be a lost art in KF2,

5. I guess Tripwire paid more attention to the loud vocal minority who got sick of long kiting to clutch the game. Hence the teleporting zeds and in-map spawns designed to throw you off.

1. Not entirely my experience. It was more a mix thing things. I got KF1 2yrs after its original release. There were fair amount of ppl that kicked players on sui or hoe but that was mainly because they were just to low level. When no keep a slot free for a friend. Though when the mutator to autokick made its way to servers that happened without player interference. As for helping newbs for me that was a whole new period of enjoyment when I had mastered all the perks and HoE maps. I really enjoyed helping new players learn the ropes or complete maps on HoE. Thats not so possible now with the current lack of survivability for most perks.

2. I wouldnt say that a small percentage of posters makes for an elitism community. Not by a long shot. Even though I see a fair number of posts on the steam boards, my experience playing through the levels (lvling new perks or helping friends who just got the game) and on sui/HoE other times is that most of the community isnt elitist. The few times Ive had ppl call out why a low level is playing on diff. x, y, z I tell them theyre with me and almost all the time thats not a problem.

3. Its a fair enough point. One which I think keeps alot of my friends list from KF1 playing this game. I have over 100+ ppl from KF1 and very rarely do any of the play KF2 at all. Its a different game. If thats what the devs want then thats fine. Personally I dont want to be playing KF1.2 (as Ive already said.) However since KF2 *IS* a "different" game then I would suggest that part of the community attracted to this KF2 are from the sorts of games, that more of these plyer types can be prevalently found. And so its fair to say that these types wont be as forgiving as players from the old KF1 community. Afterall it was a more laid back game.

4. Tragically so. But why would you want to play a coop game that can be soloed by the lone ranger perks. It makes it boring for everyone else. At least I can remember alot of times being frustrated bc the player playing medic didnt heal fast enough or well enough to keep the team alive in the first place. So They ended up soloing large tracts of the game! That for me was another form of elitism prevalent in KF1. It was more annoying that being kicked for being too low a level. At least for me

5. I doubt it. The issue with teleporting zeds is that the implementation isnt quite right. It is too in your face. But consider that this design was probably in response to players hogging the spawn points indefinitely throughout a game on certain KF1 maps so that they would kill the majority of zeds without much danger to them while the rest of the group stood in the meta-camp spot and basically twiddled their thumbs until wave 7+. Right there was the biggest form of elitism for me in KF1. The firebug who camped down the hall and welled entrances that the zeds couldnt knock down in time and happily spawn camped three or more spots that meant they got 90+% of the kills no problem. And if the group decided to disperse or go to another location and that guy died it would their fault they were dead! ^^

No the teleporting zeds is a good idea but the execution needs some work. Not an easy thing considering teams can be dispersed across a map and trying to get zeds to respawn without being too near or TOO FAR from players must be a hair-pulling (out) exercise.

Ofc... the above is just my 2cents

 

[J1ha7]

Well not elitism .. i got bored

 

[oldmidget]

Elitism is getting worse for every game, not just kf2. in that regard i dont think its especially worse off than other games.

just gota tune it out