Dying weapon firing and "dancing"

[The_Emperor]

Hey lads!

Empi is back with a suggestion for HoS.
Currently when we receive a lethal shot we just fall to the ground and we're dead. Now my idea is to make it possible to shoot during dying, like when shot and during falling to the ground your playerbody's muscles are with some tension and your desperately searching for something to hold on. So you'll likely pull the trigger. Same should especially go for the smgs, when shot you should either just pull the trigger by faling down or you should do a 360

 

[Zetsumei]

Tbh i think something like will be in already.

As there is bandaging, if you get hit in the stomach you will definitely die a painful death however you're not instantly away. So there could be a moment where you can still fire back with super heavy blur and horrible sway or whatever.

I'm all for letting people live and possibly returning fire in their last seconds of their life but it should be done realistically. So its something i personally would like and i've said that before as well, however it must be tested well to see how it ends up. As you don't want to end up with that every time you kill some in cqc that the killer will automatically die as well.

 

[Floyd]

Hey lads!

Empi is back with a suggestion for HoS.
Currently when we receive a lethal shot we just fall to the ground and we're dead. Now my idea is to make it possible to shoot during dying, like when shot and during falling to the ground your playerbody's muscles are with some tension and your desperately searching for something to hold on. So you'll likely pull the trigger. Same should especially go for the smgs, when shot you should either just pull the trigger by faling down or you should do a 360

 

[The_Emperor]

Ehm? Have you been to the frontlines? Your post sounds like you've had a whole time vacation on Eastern Front back then
Personally I'm testing things if they are working out in reality. But getting shot in a lethal way is something that can be done only twice: first and last time.
So I believe games and movies are a major point of evidence to me here. Also I can remember one of grandfather's warstories.
I doubt to believe that there's a military training for "correct falling to the ground when lethally shot".

It looks realistic to me and that's why I put it here to discuss with the others members who might have more info on dying in combat.

 

[LemoN]

Ehm? Have you been to the frontlines? Your post sounds like you've had a whole time vacation on Eastern Front back then
Personally I'm testing things if they are working out in reality. But getting shot in a lethal way is something that can be done only twice: first and last time.
So I believe games and movies are a major point of evidence to me here. Also I can remember one of grandfather's warstories.
I doubt to believe that there's a military training for "correct falling to the ground when lethally shot".

It looks realistic to me and that's why I put it here to discuss with the others members who might have more info on dying in combat.

You just have to watch actual combat fottage. When soldiers get hit there they verry seldomly even show much of an visible effect (depends on the hit). I have yet to see someone spraying a hail of bullets anywhere when being hit.

BTW: There are a few ppl (I'm not in that club, and I'm happy not to be) that have actual combat experience on these boards.

 

[REZ]

Red Orchestra: John Woo in Stalingrad

 

[Flogger23m]

You just have to watch actual combat fottage. When soldiers get hit there they verry seldomly even show much of an visible effect (depends on the hit). I have yet to see someone spraying a hail of bullets anywhere when being hit.

BTW: There are a few ppl (I'm not in that club, and I'm happy not to be) that have actual combat experience on these boards.

This.

Just because it was in CoD and a movie does not make it real.

Watch some combat footage.

And I'd imagine that when you get killed, you'd loosen your mussels, not tighten them. Probably why people slump or drop down real when they are fatally shot, and don't jump up and stand super still and tight.

 

[The_Emperor]

just cause it's in CoD doesn't make it unreal

I will ask a doctor who served in the federal German army to get more evidence.

 

[O'Shannon]

When you die you **** your pants....
Me wants brown stains on the butt when dead

 

[Reise]

When you drop you drop.

Spinning around with your finger on the trigger, or making a last ditch revenge shot during that moment is kinda silly. You're falling down because the shot incapacitated you, this includes your arms and hands, it's not something graceful or controllable.

 

[Floyd]

Ehm? Have you been to the frontlines? Your post sounds like you've had a whole time vacation on Eastern Front back then
Personally I'm testing things if they are working out in reality. But getting shot in a lethal way is something that can be done only twice: first and last time.
So I believe games and movies are a major point of evidence to me here. Also I can remember one of grandfather's warstories.
I doubt to believe that there's a military training for "correct falling to the ground when lethally shot".

It looks realistic to me and that's why I put it here to discuss with the others members who might have more info on dying in combat.

In short, yes I have. I never saw what you describe.
War ain't all glamor and glitz. Trust me. You don't really want to see what its like to kill and maim. Or what its like to see your buddy cut down in front of you. Good luck getting a vet to go into what he's seen with you.

Spend some time at [URL="http://www.apacheclips.com"][URL="http://www.apacheclips.com"][url]www.apacheclips.com[/URL][/URL][/URL]
I'm not going to even post a direct link to some of the pics and videos. There is plenty of footage of combatants being taken down. Plenty of pics of maimed and wounded. From WWII to Vietnam to Iraq. Just scroll down and click on one of the links on the lower left. Or, click on one of the pics in the lower center. The later the war, generally the more graphic the images. Be warned. Its not a site for the faint hearted.

 

[REZ]

Rather.. for the extremely morbid, amirite?



(No, I didnt go to the site.. I know better than to seek out horrors I wont be able to forget.)

 

[Napoleon Blownapart]

personally (i have no military experience at all) if was going down.. and was still semi conscious i would want to take the *******s with me... or at least try too

so maybe... as all fades to black... and i still have my weapon i could fire as i drop (from player few) now try to aim that shot or even compensate for recoil would be impossible...

( I KNOW ITS MOVIE... but a darn good one (kinda)) but take SPR (SPOILER ALERT)
when capt. miller goes down.. he ain't dead... and he still has a mission to complete... and he is going to try and go that... it seems like any trained/motivated soldier would do the same... keep fightin till ur 6ft under

 

[SturmSS]

By the sounds of it this is one of those threads or discussions where it would seem that death being glorified.
I personally dont want to be allowed to have a last second change to unload before I die - nor have my enemy given the benefit

From the video footage of WWII that I have seen, when men are hit they generally just fall to the ground immediately. Usually this is the case because it is "mortal" and they dont have the luxury of taking revenge on their enemy due to muscle spasms due to their wound.

Like most WWII movies (atleast the older ones) it would seem that any enemy that is holding an SMG would seem to suffer from these "spasms" and completely unload his clip in a frenzy during his death. It would also seem that in the more modern movies that soldiers would go down in a very galliant and herioic manner blah blah. Not to say this didnt happen - But I wouldnt be relying on sources like movies and other games to create the latest RO. If they Tripwire devs were making the initial RO based on glamorized, romanticized and inaccurate war movies - I'm sure the game would be a lot crapper and more like *cough* one of the Call of Duty games.

One of my favourite quotes about the Red Orchestra Game was in one of its trailers. It was something to the effect of "Playing Red Orchestra is not like you're in a war movie but in the actual war" which I could not agree with more. I would like to have it kept that way.

Also you'd actually be surprised if you shot someone in the head. The brain is a complex object and depending where you hit almost anything can happen. But adding in this "final showdown" sort of thing just reminds me of the ancient Medal of Honor days (yes the first Medal of Honor) where the enemy you kill would die in this cinematic way clenching the trigger of his MP40 spraying bullets everywhere. No thanks.

However, the former of what Zet said I am looking forward to - the concept of bandaging and getting hit affecting your movement/accuracy etc.

As there is bandaging, if you get hit in the stomach you will definitely die a painful death however you're not instantly away. So there could be a moment where you can still fire back with super heavy blur and horrible sway or whatever.

I'm all for letting people live and possibly returning fire in their last seconds of their life but it should be done realistically. So its something i personally would like and i've said that before as well, however it must be tested well to see how it ends up. As you don't want to end up with that every time you kill some in cqc that the killer will automatically die as well.

And I agree with the former. If it is to be implemented to be done in a realistic fashion. But I would prefer it not to be in at all if it cant be done.

and agreed:

This is a function of no formal military training, no combat experience and watching too many movies.

 

[Lucan946]

Um, no. If you get hit, you go down, and fast. No spraying the whole magazine bull****. Maybe once in a while there would be a slight pull of the trigger, but 360 degrees? What is this, HALO?

I'm curious if you've ever even seen footage of someone getting shot. They usually just fall straight down. RO does a pretty good job, save for the fact that the bodies in RO lack momentum (I.E if you're sprinting your body doesn't carry on, it just spawns where you died and falls to the ground. I'd imagine this will be remedied in RO:HoS.

 

[The_Emperor]

To get things right a bit at least from what I was thinking about.
First of all I was never thinking of a Call of Duty Second Chance thingy. Secondly I never meant that the whole magazine is sprayed around. I was merely thinking of a short burst during your fall down. The burst or single shot fired won't be controllable at all. It's just fired and will hit someone/something the gun is pointed at this time. I was just wondering whether this will happen totally randomly or if it requires the player pressing the left mouse shortly before the lethal shot hits the player. That's it.

 

[Zetsumei]

What I mean is some times death is not instant, what can be seen on real world videos at least. Is that in occasions people get hit and due to adrenaline go on for a little while and don't immediately fall down. If you search you can probably find complains from soldiers about a lack of stopping power with all sorts of weaponry as well.

I hope in that sense that a well tested and realistic form of stopping power gets implemented into the game. So different calibres can mean different things. Atleast wikipedia for what its worth says some interesting things: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stopping_power

Having a fatal wound won't always make you instantly stop, and sometimes a non fatal wound could make you instantly drop down. Again its something that would need to be looked into with care and tested with care (we all don't want cod4's last stand or martyrdom).

But I think that adding stopping power in the equation will elevate the game in terms of realism. And could increase the depth of the game without making it more difficult to understand.

 

[Flogger23m]

Having a fatal wound won't always make you instantly stop, and sometimes a non fatal wound could make you instantly drop down.

Problem is that it is hard to do in a game, at least a fast faced game like RO.

If you're shot, but bleeding out for 5 minutes and only able to crawl, why bother? In terms of gameplay, the player should just "die" quicker and not have control.

There are some things that a game can never really model very realistically, and this is one of them IMO.

If you are hit in a fatal area, I think you should just die.


About the non-fatal round dropping you, that would be interesting to see. But it would probably be hard to do. Never seen it in an MP game, or really any game.

The closest I have seen was in GRAW 1/2 PC with the AI.

 

[Zetsumei]

Problem is that it is hard to do in a game, at least a fast faced game like RO.

The thing is I think it somewhat is in RO currently, just in a different form. By the damage of bullets. Pistols / Smg rounds often take you like 3 shots to kill someone, while a rifle downs in one shot.

And basically with something like a separate stopping power thing it could be that 1 bullet is enough to kill (especially when you don't bandage).
But to effectively stop someone right at the moment you need to shoot the same amount of bullets as currently in RO.

I don't mean letting someone live for 5 minutes while he's dying on the floor,I mean letting someone live till he drops to the floor which is probably often a matter of seconds or less after getting hit.

Have you ever had a serious injury happen to you, like a cut to the bone, you often actually don't realize any pain till like a few seconds after it happened (as you destroyed the actual nerves). I guess something similar can happen to bullet shots. Depending on what kind of a mess the bullet makes on your inside.

Now again it would need to be looked into, in what way it would be realistic. But I definitely think that it would matter enough to make it worth to implement. An example of a non fatal hit dropping you could be a big but smack from a rifle.

 

[Reise]

If a shot is nonfatal in RO you're still "alive."

Saying the last ditch shot effect should be in the game in that situation is pointless.