MG34 needs different top cover if it uses the drum magazine. That is true and quite understandable.
DT15 and PT34 will both feed from that same top cover:
MG34 with Trommelhalter & DT15 Magazine: Northern Arizona Munitions - YouTube
DP does have quick change barrel
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MG34 needs different top cover if it uses the drum magazine. That is true and quite understandable.
DT15 and PT34 will both feed from that same top cover:
MG34 with Trommelhalter & DT15 Magazine: Northern Arizona Munitions - YouTube
Sorry but no, they will not. The guy in the video is using a post war modified D-T 15 drum with an altered release latch, cause the original D-T 15 drums will NOT fit on a MG34, period.
"Modified D-T 15 magazines are now also available in the USA, which will fit and function on the Trommelhalter and the MG34."
So again, nomatter how many surplus D-T 15 drums that were around they would not be used by the MG34 because a) They didn't fit and b) Because only a very few MG34's actually featured the necessary Trommelhalter top cover, esp. since it had been phased out even before the war started.
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Again, this is pretty silly argument. Especially so because neither of us is a proponent of Doppeltrommel.
Of course there aren't that many top covers etc. as magazine feed is a very specialised need for for specialised purposes within the army. In most cases it would be a downgrade, not upgrade. And that is the whole point.
Magazines were about in numbers: PT34 magazines were manufactured to match the number of MG34 top covers, and if needed there were tens of thousands MG15 magazines that do feed the MG34 just fine. It isn't an amazing feat to show a little bit of file to the latch to make it fit an MG34. Problem here is the fact that it is a downgrade for specialised purposes where the belt might not be practical (i.e. vehicles, aircraft, ...).
In pure infantry use belt is more versatile and makes no sense to remove the ability to use the belt. If one has to move it is possible to take just one or two segments of the belt so the gunner can carry it attached to the gun. Even better, have the belt in the drum magazine so it is easily carried.
Of course there aren't that many top covers etc. as magazine feed is a very specialised need for for specialised purposes within the army. In most cases it would be a downgrade, not upgrade. And that is the whole point.
Magazines were about in numbers: PT34 magazines were manufactured to match the number of MG34 top covers, and if needed there were tens of thousands MG15 magazines that do feed the MG34 just fine. It isn't an amazing feat to show a little bit of file to the latch to make it fit an MG34. Problem here is the fact that it is a downgrade for specialised purposes where the belt might not be practical (i.e. vehicles, aircraft, ...).
In pure infantry use belt is more versatile and makes no sense to remove the ability to use the belt. If one has to move it is possible to take just one or two segments of the belt so the gunner can carry it attached to the gun. Even better, have the belt in the drum magazine so it is easily carried.
![[TORO]Patosentado](/data/avatars/s/35/35970.jpg?1568638684){kind=avatar}
As normally the MG gunner stays alive less than a whole drum, and a lot of times is dead before even firing a shot because of "can
File the latch ? No Jippo, either a new one is needed or the latch is to be removed completely (Not recommended!). Also that's not the only problem preventing its' use with the MG34:
"Secondly, the spring pressure on the D-T 15 magazines proved too tight for the MG34 bolt spring, so reliable functioning was not achieved. This was remedied by substituting the clockwork spring mechanism with a new and much simplified coiled spring. It is possible to shoot a MG34 with a D-T 15 if the locking latch is removed and the magazine is only half-full." (Firing without a locking latch is not recommended!)
So even if there were thousands of D-T 15's lying around, they couldn't be used with the MG34, which in addition to this had to be equipped with the extremely rare Trommelhalter top cover - which on top only accepted the PT34 drums.
In short the saddle drum equipped MG34 is one of the rarest weapons we're seeing ingame atm, only superceded by the ridiculous 6x scoped SVT40 and 4x scoped G41 that never even existed, plus perhaps the silenced Nagant pistol.
There is plenty of evidence of MG15 being used with MG34's. I showed you one piece, you can find plenty more should you try:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=DT15+MG34
This is becoming ridiculous Jippo. The original D-T 15 drums will NOT fit on the MG34, nor even function properly with it, period. All you've got to prove otherwise is a couple of youtube videos showing MG34's equipped with repro D-T 15 drums modified in order to be accepted by the MG34 Trommelhalter on which the original D-T 15's wouldn't fit.
In short: If you see a MG34 fitted with a D-T 15 drum today then the drum is a post war modified one, simple as that, cause the originals will NOT fit. There's absolutely no point in trying to deny this, esp. not when all you've got is a google search link.
I mean come on!
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You might be corteus enough to read through the material I linked, but obviously you are not. If you are not willing to learn, it is hardly my fault.
Have it any way you like.
Btw. who manufactures reproduction DT15 magazines, I beg to ask?
Have it any way you like.
Btw. who manufactures reproduction DT15 magazines, I beg to ask?
haak48 said:
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?72071-MG34-15-Drum-Loaderbmg17a1 said:
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*sigh*
Praise the anonymous posters
Well let me be courteus then:
Read what hr. Haak43 writes Jippo:
"Properly adjusted for the MG34,(my gun anyway) one should be able to load from 15 to 20 rounds into the mag"
20 rounds ? That is hardly a properly functioning drum Jippo, and it only goes to prove what has already been mentioned earlier:
"Secondly, the spring pressure on the D-T 15 magazines proved too tight for the MG34 bolt spring, so reliable functioning was not achieved. This was remedied by substituting the clockwork spring mechanism with a new and much simplified coiled spring. It is possible to shoot a MG34 with a D-T 15 if the locking latch is removed and the magazine is only half-full."
So what do you gain by trying to use a D-T 15 with a MG34 ? Well you first get the pleasure of having to remove the locking latch (not recommended btw), and then you have to re-adjust the tension of the internal spring to make sure it will even feed, and finally that means you can only load up half the magazine. Super! ...Not. Seriously, why would anyone even bother?
Ryan Schnee from the MG42.us forums:
"The DT34 drums have springs that can be adjusted. The DT15 does not. The problem with using the DT15 drums on the MG34 comes from the position of the bolt. The MG34 bolt, when in the rear position and ready to fire is only about a half centimeter or so behind the cartridge. The bolt has no momentum built up when it contacts the back of the case. The MG15 starts farther back so it has more momentum built up when it hits the back of the cartridge and starts to strip it from the magazine and can easily overcome the strong tension placed on the cartridges. The MG34 simply can not over come the magazine spring tension of the DT15. Although sometimes you find DT15 drums that have weak springs and will work on the MG34 but not always reliably.The idea behind the DT34 is to be able to adjust the spring tension so it is strong enough to feed the cartridges but not so strong that the bolt can not strip the cartridge from the magazine."
Don't be afraid to admit when you are wrong next time.
Praise the anonymous posters
Well let me be courteus then:
Read what hr. Haak43 writes Jippo:
"Properly adjusted for the MG34,(my gun anyway) one should be able to load from 15 to 20 rounds into the mag"
20 rounds ? That is hardly a properly functioning drum Jippo, and it only goes to prove what has already been mentioned earlier:
"Secondly, the spring pressure on the D-T 15 magazines proved too tight for the MG34 bolt spring, so reliable functioning was not achieved. This was remedied by substituting the clockwork spring mechanism with a new and much simplified coiled spring. It is possible to shoot a MG34 with a D-T 15 if the locking latch is removed and the magazine is only half-full."
So what do you gain by trying to use a D-T 15 with a MG34 ? Well you first get the pleasure of having to remove the locking latch (not recommended btw), and then you have to re-adjust the tension of the internal spring to make sure it will even feed, and finally that means you can only load up half the magazine. Super! ...Not. Seriously, why would anyone even bother?
Ryan Schnee from the MG42.us forums:
"The DT34 drums have springs that can be adjusted. The DT15 does not. The problem with using the DT15 drums on the MG34 comes from the position of the bolt. The MG34 bolt, when in the rear position and ready to fire is only about a half centimeter or so behind the cartridge. The bolt has no momentum built up when it contacts the back of the case. The MG15 starts farther back so it has more momentum built up when it hits the back of the cartridge and starts to strip it from the magazine and can easily overcome the strong tension placed on the cartridges. The MG34 simply can not over come the magazine spring tension of the DT15. Although sometimes you find DT15 drums that have weak springs and will work on the MG34 but not always reliably.The idea behind the DT34 is to be able to adjust the spring tension so it is strong enough to feed the cartridges but not so strong that the bolt can not strip the cartridge from the magazine."
Don't be afraid to admit when you are wrong next time.
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Never been wrong in your life before? You need to go back and watch the videos and read the links again until it sinks in.
Meanwhile, you and I are severely de-railing a thread about DP-27 barrels. Which, I believe, only came with one barrel, so to be back on track barrels were not switchable in RL as there was nothing to replace the hot barrel with.
Meanwhile, you and I are severely de-railing a thread about DP-27 barrels. Which, I believe, only came with one barrel, so to be back on track barrels were not switchable in RL as there was nothing to replace the hot barrel with.
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Jippo why is it I need to watch a video with a guy shooting a modified D-T 15 magazine without the locking latch and a new spring system ? (These are available for purchase today btw) What is it supposed to prove exactly ?
Truth is that all of this started when you claimed that there were a lot of D-T 15 magazines lying around back in the war, and that they could've easily been used with the MG34's, and as such was probably in wide spread use. I then informed you of why that wasn't the case, because:
a) The D-T 15 does not fit on the MG34 (unless you remove the locking latch)
b) The D-T 15 does not function properly even if you manage to make it fit because of a different spring system
c) There were hardly any MG34's around with the Trommelhalter top cover in the first place, and the only pictures available of it are from pre-war maneuvers.
Why you then continued to insist that the D-T 15 would work with the MG34 I have no clue as to.
I will leave this last comment from a good friend who actually owns several MG34's amongst other MG's, and gets to shoot them a couple of times a year (It was one of his guns that I tried twice before):
"No you're right, the original DT15 drums will not function reliably with the MG34, the spring tension is simply too tight and you can't adjust it like on the PT34. And yes, you would have to remove the locking latch from the DT15 first to even get it to fit on the MG34."
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Why the D-T 15 will not function properly with the MG34, whilst the PT34 will:
On the PT34 it is possible to easily adjust the tension of the coil spring:
On the D-T 15 it is not (PT34 left, D-T 15 right):
On the PT34 it is possible to easily adjust the tension of the coil spring:
On the D-T 15 it is not (PT34 left, D-T 15 right):
Not good enough, the system will still only allow the magazine to function half full.
You still truly believe that German machine gunners would use D-T 15 magazines?
In the end the saddle drum for the MG34 is about one of the rarest things added to the game, ranking right along side the silenced Nagant pistol, MP40/II and 6x scoped SVT, not to mention the 4x scoped G41. It simply shouldn't have been added.
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Why on earth would you think it would only work half-full?!? You have seen how they work in the video. If seeing with your own eyes is not enough what can I say.
1/4 turn adjustments can be done which is fine enough for the purpose.
Filing 5mm of steel from the bottom of the release lever will allow the drum to fit in MG34 top cover. It will work even without the latch, though, as seen on the video.
Give it a rest will you. The whole discussion is ridiculous, totally irrelevant and absolutely off-topic. I will not comment further on the matter.
Thank you.
You have seen how they work in the video. If seeing with your own eyes is not enough what can I say.1/4 turn adjustments can be done which is fine enough for the purpose.
Filing 5mm of steel from the bottom of the release lever will allow the drum to fit in MG34 top cover. It will work even without the latch, though, as seen on the video.
Give it a rest will you. The whole discussion is ridiculous, totally irrelevant and absolutely off-topic. I will not comment further on the matter.
Thank you.
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I saw a D-T 15 being loaded with the mechnical loader, I did not see with how many rounds. Where's the thing I am missing if you would be so kind to direct me?
Nope, finer adjustments than that are necessary, something anyone who owns the system will tell you.
"It is interesting to note that I loaded a DT34 and had adjusted it to work flawlessly on one MG34 but then when it was used on another MG34 it would not strip the cartridges until the magazine was about 2/3 empty. I even used the same recoil spring. When the bolt and barrel from the first gun were moved from the first gun to the second it worked again.
The drums have to be adjusted for each individual MG. Probably a strong reason why the system was dropped by the infantry. The problem is easier to overcome in an armored unit when the drums generally stay with the same MG while in a particular vehicle."
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