Downloading the next map in rotation while playing.

[tofupunk]

I don't know about in-game downloads, but when I'm downloading something via torrent, my ping goes from 180(normal) to 350 in TWB Old Glory with my 10mb connection.

Yeah, my ping gets killed if I'm downloading any kind of torrents. I'll go from a nice 50-100 ping to as much as 500ms. The same is true if I'm downloading anything off of steam, but it's usually no where as bad as downloading with uTorrent.

The latency issues you are having are caused by a combination of slow routers and bittorrent technology. Your routers probably can't handle the amount of connections your bittorrent program opens, and your pings go through the roof. Try downloading something from a FTP server instead, I guarantee you your pings are going to be unaffected. I don't know how steam downloads work but it makes sense it doesn't affect you as much *** bittorrent.

You can also try to limit the number of connections the program is allowed to open. I know it can be done i uTorrent.

The server side router probably(hopefully) has good QoS and will limit uploads to guarantee low latency. Also, map downloads can be redirected to another server(at least it was possible in RO1), so there wouldn't be any problem at all server side either.

No no no no no no no no no no.

Do not divide bandwidth like that, nevar, no. I need instantaneous reaction times from the server and from all players, divvying up resources like that is a bad idea.

I don't want people downloading porn in the background while they play Red Orchestra, and I don't want people downloading maps.

This does not make any sense at all.

EDIT: Great feature by the way, good thinking! Should be easy to implement in servers with map rotations. Although server admins with bandwidth restrictions should be able to turn it off, as it would result in some unnecessary uploads.

 

[VariousNames]

A map buffering system would be nice if it could work without causing said player's ping to go up significantly.

It wouldn't be nice if it caused a single player's ping to go up at all.

A mild convenience is not worth even a mild increase in response time. This game's mechanics are far too delicate to be tweaked in such a way...30 milliseconds can be the difference between a hit and a miss.

 

[u-s-e-r]

It wouldn't be nice if it caused a single player's ping to go up at all.

A mild convenience is not worth even a mild increase in response time. This game's mechanics are far too delicate to be tweaked in such a way...30 milliseconds can be the difference between a hit and a miss.

And it doesnt affect it at all. So theres no problem here.

 

[VariousNames]

And it doesnt affect it at all. So theres no problem here.

Pardon?

 

[Zetsumei]

Pardon?

The game engine prioritizes some forms of data over the other in case someone got a bad connection etc. This means that for every bit of data you send the game packets will have priority.

This means that you should not see any delays in the ping of yourself. And as said initially, it would always remain an option as some people for instance have a set bandwidth limit or people like you that for other reasons do not want it.

But the biggest hurdle of custom map servers is the download time, and next to that the instantaneous use of the redirect server. If the download is to be done of the duration of a map then the download speeds can be throttled for instance so the redirect server doesn't get hit with 64 top speed map request at one point and then an hour of pretty much nothing. It distributes the load more evenly.

Obviously this system won't work in the case that the next map isn't know such as the campaign mode and when using mapvoting. But it allows custom maps to flourish more easily as on a map change you won't loose as many players that do not have the map.

 

[VariousNames]

Thank you for the reply.

The game engine prioritizes some forms of data over the other in case someone got a bad connection etc. This means that for every bit of data you send the game packets will have priority.

This means that you should not see any delays in the ping of yourself.

Oh. Righto then. Excuse me

 

[Yoshiro]

The science boys out back tell me this is unpossible. For our next trick, incendiary lemons!


Long story short, it eats up not just bandwidth but CPU and Ram. We will not be adding additional load onto the game.

 

[Grumms]

The science boys out back tell me this is unpossible. For our next trick, incendiary lemons!


Long story short, it eats up not just bandwidth but CPU and Ram. We will not be adding additional load onto the game.

Incendiary lemons are confirmed.

Add this to the facts thread!


On a serious note, basically what a couple of us figured. Thanks for confirmation Yoshiro!

 

[Zetsumei]

The science boys out back tell me this is unpossible. For our next trick, incendiary lemons!

Long story short, it eats up not just bandwidth but CPU and Ram. We will not be adding additional load onto the game.

Well as was stated by most people it should always remain optional, especially as people have their ISP bandwidth limits.

But as you can join another server and downloading the files of the redirect while continue playing in UT2k4, and I've never noticed any slow downs even on my old system when UT2k4 just released. So based on my limited experience I think that for most people the additional stress would be neglectable, and for the other people they could just turn it off.

Heck unlike in the past where I used to close all programs before starting a game I think a lot of people these days actually keep programs running in the background.

I've got a router where I can prioritize traffic over certain ports, and even when clogging my pipe to the max in both upload and download I won't see any noteworthy change in ping.

 

[u-s-e-r]

Well as was stated by most people it should always remain optional, especially as people have their ISP bandwidth limits.

But as you can join another server and downloading the files of the redirect while continue playing in UT2k4, and I've never noticed any slow downs even on my old system when UT2k4 just released. So based on my limited experience I think that for most people the additional stress would be neglectable, and for the other people they could just turn it off.

Heck unlike in the past where I used to close all programs before starting a game I think a lot of people these days actually keep programs running in the background.

I've got a router where I can prioritize traffic over certain ports, and even when clogging my pipe to the max in both upload and download I won't see any noteworthy change in ping.

Yes, as Zetsumei said, since it causes more load, it should be completely optional and maybe even with a big red text "this may cause performance decrease" or something, I cant believe it is possible for a simple downloading of a file do much to performance on todays computers.

 

[VariousNames]

Yes, as Zetsumei said, since it causes more load, it should be completely optional and maybe even with a big red text "this may cause performance decrease" or something, I cant believe it is possible for a simple downloading of a file do much to performance on todays computers.

You said it would carry no performance cost.

In fact, both you and Zetsumei said it would carry no increase in ping. Is that still true?

 

[u-s-e-r]

You said it would carry no performance cost.

In fact, both you and Zetsumei said it would carry no increase in ping. Is that still true?

It wont carry any increase to ping. Yoshiro didnt even say that it would, simply that since it causes load to CPU and RAM too, they wont add it because they dont want to add more load to the game.

With QoS, it wont cause any increase in ping, unless on a bad internet connection, why the whole thing is optional. Also for the load it causes, its just downloading a single file, it will cause only issues on bad computers (I believe this is actually pretty trivial, if the load of the download causes trouble, then the whole game probably isnt playable on that rig without heavy tweaking anyway), again, why the optionality of the whole thing.

 

[Zetsumei]

You said it would carry no performance cost.

In fact, both you and Zetsumei said it would carry no increase in ping. Is that still true?

As said before I never noticed any performance cost whatsoever on my single core 1.4ghz thinderbird with 512mb sdram with a 40gb harddisc. When I was playing ut2004 instagib competitively. And at that time I was highly competitive, and still had very good reflexes and was quite peculiar about ping and performance.

I never noticed any issue when downloading a map while switching server. For what that is worth.

Things regarding multitasking have really changed over the last years, with quad core processors and stuff. That personally make me highly doubt that anyone without a very full hard-disc would notice any difference at all when downloading a file. As my pos computer back in 2004 didn't have any issues I doubt that now 7 years later the average computer will suddenly get issues.

As I have a so called gaming router that allows you to prioritize certain ports, and even when near fully maximizing my download and upload I don't see any change in ping outside of the realm of fluctuations in ping I normally see. This makes me indeed fully believe that using different priorities with packet handling means that users see no effect.

Especially as a speed of 100KB/s would be more than enough for downloading custom maps while playing. With the game probably taking up about 10KB/s

But anyway this discussion is not worth discussing any more since TWI won't add it anyway .

 

[Grobut]

Another solution would be to pre-download before you join.

Basically, in the server browser, you could have a button called "pre-load mods", if people press it, they start downloading any maps and mods in the servers rotation they don't currently have. Then you could set it to download, go make a cup of coffee, and come back and play when it's done.


It might not be as simple as all that though, i'm just thinking out load here, but it might be doable.

 

[kainhall]

what abotu the option to downlaod all the maps that the server has in its config file or wahtever, then joi nteh game. it woudl say

15 maps
2342347238948923 mags
50 mins to downlaod on your selected connection speed of : 750kbps

you select uyour connection speed (mines 6mega BITS (750kbps)...its the fastest i cna get in montana....unlessi go satillite and im NOT doign that!) and it does teh simpel calculation....

its been around sence...ever....first game i can thing of is cod1 from 2003...it told me that it was X time to downlaod Y map of Z size. and gave a nice little progress bar.

teh only thing is that you would downlaod all teh maps before you joined.

thsi wount not increase ping...your not playing
and not increase cpu/ram usige .... still doing one one thing at oen time!

 

[Stephen]

Awesome idea. Agreed.

It sometimes takes me ages to download maps on DH servers, and I can never remember if I've downloaded them previously and then it often turns out I haven't and I miss the opportunity to grab my favourite tank because I have to spend the first couple of minutes getting a new map.

 

[kainhall]

exactly....and mabey you cna pick like..

DL all
DL new 2
DL current (same as system now)
DL next "insert number (X) here" out of "Y" maps.

click next 2....connecting to 1337 LEET PWNAGE OF THE ALL MIGHTY STUART TANK!!!

(new screen)

downlaoding current map and next 2 in play list...
currently dling "1337 map of coolness"
files remaning-2
time till its all done - 5 minutes 3 seconds


what would ahppen if ehy voted on maps....uh, mabey DL the 2 top played maps. or jsut disable thwos options and only ALL and Join (join would downlaod current then let you paly)....as thats about all you could do there!


mabey a system like WORLD IN CONFLICT...where most of the user maps are released and uplaoded to a TWI server and everyone DL's the maps they want from the TWI server. (server as in file transfer server only..not a gmae server with maps and fighting and stuff). and palyers get a update saying NEW MAP whe na new map is uplaoded! and server admins can pick what maps tehy want...and alsu use maps that are not on the TWI server!

 

[Otto Fuhrmann]

Is it just me that has to re-read what ever Kainhall says just to understand what he is on about?

But he does have a point.

 

[VariousNames]

Is it just me that has to re-read what ever Kainhall says just to understand what he is on about?

But he does have a point.

Judging from the pattern and type of mispellings it's probably intentional.

I do think hosting these maps on a dedicated download server would be a huge help. If TWI could host whitelisted or popular custom maps that would obviously be wonderful. Whether they're posted on fileshare websites or even on a P2P network, anything to get them distributed outside of actual game servers so people can pre-download would be boss.

Server admins or clans, posting an updated server maplist would be a big help as well.

The most painful part about downloading maps in Ost is doing it from the game server itself, which is going to take forever because it's not a dedicated download server.

 

[Zetsumei]

TWI cannot host maps without first letting the mappers sign a paper that writes the map off to TWI, while clearing TWI of any possible copyright issues if they would happen to occur.

Too much of a tricky business in that sense.