Doing better with newcomers

[Sulman]

The last few nights I have witnessed some appalling attitude on realism servers, and given the game's numbers before, during, and after the free weekend I can't help but think this is part of the problem.

People were talking as if they were ejected from the womb being able to play the game. On one session of Bridges as Allies (an absolute fun vacuum, if you have an inexperienced allied side) a gentleman was wheezing from apoplepsy - from the safety of his tank - that people were not moving forward. One regular on this forum - who shall not be named - advised that people that don't know how to use smoke grenades should uninstall the game, then kill themselves. On voice chat regulars were actually complaining about the intake of new players, as if this is somehow a terrible thing.

Everybody has to start somewhere. Screaming at newbies that they have to move teaches them nothing; they already know that. They also know that on some maps it means they get hit and have respawn constantly.

Having been through the learning process myself, it teaches you absolutely nothing to move forward on a defended position. Absolutely nothing. All you learn are the fundamental frustrations of the game, and it takes a while to understand how to overcome those, and in doing so you will be far more conservative in advancing.

New players play the same reason as everyone else: To have fun, to enjoy the game. They do not play to be admonished and shouted at by some bloke indulging some bizarre armchair Patton fantasy.

RO2 is possibly the most unforgiving game to learn that I have experienced - I do not know of any other that is so hard in the beginning. Newcomers to RO1 (which has seen a few since the Steam Linux open beta) seem to have a much easier time of it.

Be tolerant, and lead by example, and certainly do not tell people to "f**k off back to COD." Seriously, what problem are you solving?

 

[migmadmarine]

I would like to second this. We were all new once, they will learn in time.

 

[Kurskar]

I do agree with your sentiments as i've seen the same on afew occations. Although i also have to say that i've seen an influx of the type of gamers that really don't help themselves much either. Your not going to get a positive reaction from vet's when you start shouting your mouth off about unbalanced maps, crap this, crap that and general complaining.

Their is a general unwillingness to move into objectives and rather sit back and be defensive even when your supposed to attack. Perhaps the game is not clear enough that you lose if you dont take all of the objectives as the attacker.

I'm glad their has been an influx of players. Its keeping things fresh.

 

[mowskwoz]

I can't think of any MP game that I've played over the past few years that doesn't experience this in some way.

With the relatively low player base this game has, it's unfortunate that some people still choose to behave like that and possibly drive people away from the game.

For servers that don't want to play with new people, perhaps adding "No Noobs" or something like that to your server title, would deter new players from entering to begin with. It's understandable to get frustrated with new players but berating them when they're helping populate your server and trying to get into a game to have fun with you, doesn't entirely make sense.

Hopefully, the new players just learn to avoid those servers and keep playing.

 

[G_Sajer]

I would like to second this. We were all new once, they will learn in time.

Yeah, it's just human nature. The "Boss" is particularly sensitive about driving off noobs with harsh rhetoric. We go through this at least once a year. What we do is to instruct admins to really make an effort to tone down or refrain from angry dialogue in text or voice. We recognize that new players are going to be clumsy for awhile until they understand the unforgiving dynamics of the RO2 environment. Players that insist on egaging in prolonged flaming are going to get a "time out." Newbies will learn because the game is an unforgiving teacher. The best way to look at it is that the community needs interested newbies who will be patient enough to "bleed" their way to success. Others will fade away. The community benefits as a whole. Be patient.

 

[specta3]

Good post Sulman

I Will be the first to admit that some times i have let frustration get the better of me when using the mic and advised people to uninstall after being in a team that is just playing death match and not playing for the objective.New players should at least know that there are objectives to attack and defend but most just play death match.

The main problem i have is Mics so few players use them in your average server 64 players in a game and i find my self the only one with a mic so many times.Unless they are all in team speak it seems people just dont use there mics any more.Seems to be a trend in all MP games these days.Hardcore games like this people should use a mic are type.I try to help new players but some times frustration gets the better of me i am working on it )

But i agree more experienced players need to mic up and be helpful

 

[Private Who?]

Yeah good post. The best thing you can do as a player to grow the base is help people learn, and have a good attitude doing it. It can get a bit tiresome if you have a persistent team killer or someone blatantly using the SL position in a highly unskilled manner, but generally the best thing to do with those cases is let it slide and handle itself. Look for those who need the help and want to learn....and give it.

 

[War monger]

I for one have never had this problem with the vets, they've all been nothing but encouraging and helpful, which is why I really like the RO2 community.

 

[Sulman]

The constant remarks about COD wind me up as well. RO2 is not so far removed from that game (especially not the early ones); in fact it has far more in common with it than its predecessor, and for players to be elitist about it is obtuse to the point of hilarity.

 

[CocaineInMyBrain]

Forget about noobies, even decently experienced players like me (who's played 300+ hrs of Ostfront in addition to 300 or so hrs of RO2) get the same treatment sometimes.

I remember one particular incident, it was early on in RO2's life, right after the first patch came through. I was on the [ clan that was around during the early stages of RO2, and had one of most consistently populated 64 player servers until they tried to lower it to 40 -50 players, hint: starts with a 7] Realism server, playing Grain Elevator on the German side. As usual Germans were getting creamed, and when I joined it was about half way through the round, and I managed to get a recently opened Marksman slot.

I heard over the voice comms that there were a couple of particularly sneaky MGs hiding on the upper floors of the elevator, and I proceeded to get into position to take them out. No sooner had I found a spot then a teamate sprayed me down with an MP40. This player (who was a regular of these forums, and a well known member of one of the bigger clans of the OstFront-era) then started to voice his displeasure at me over the text chat, stating that I was noob because get this - I was using the semi-auto sniper instead of the bolt action. Through the rest of the round he continued his rants about how TWI sold out and that RO2 was worse than MW and that casuals were ruining his game (apparently by using weapons he doesn't think are skillful enough ?) Apparently he was well known enough (or maybe knew the admins personally) that he was never banned or kicked despite TKing and team-wounding me and several other players he deemed "casuals" for the rest of the round. In fact for much of the round I was teamkilled on spawn by him. Keep in mind that at least 3 clan members (assuming they have admin powers) were on and did not even acknowledge what this person was doing.

I ended up sending screenshots and a report to his clan and evidently nothing was done, as I continued to see him on various server until the patch that introduced Classic (ironically enough).

Even up to today, every time I go on the 40-1 Classic server I see at least one or 2 familiar forums faces going on longwinded rants about how bad RO2 Realism/TWI is and how stupid the player base and TWI are for not dropping everything and supporting Classic.

This left a bitter taste in my mouth about people who glamorize and make it a point to identify themselves as "hardcore dedicated RO1 vets" as elitist and extremely entitled pricks, and judging by some of the posts said people make here , I was not too far off the mark. And this is coming from someone who's had experience and some knowlegde about the mindset behind the average RO1 player to know that not every (or even the majority) of RO1 vets were like that and in fact most were helpful if anything. Now imagine someone completely new to the RO series or new to FPS in general and going head first into uncharted territotry, I doubt they'd stick along as far as I did after such incidents and behavior.

 

[Cyper]

The remarks about CoD is no coincidence. It's a selfevident fact that RO2 is closer to CoD than previous RO games. I think it is obvious that everyone know that RO2 isn't like CoD. What people are playing at is how RO2 is dumbed down specifically if we're talking about Realism/Action Mode. But that may be off-topic anyway.

I have seen new players being treated bad aswell. Some of them have deservd it. But I think majority does not. Treating new players bad is not good because RO is already enough hard to get into even in these child modes. Also, insulting someone is often not very good. And why?

Still, I understand that some ROVETS and other treat players bad, since theey were treated bad themselves.

There is a quite simple rule to follow that can help many people:

Only players with wishes of arcade is to be treated bad.

 

[The Beast (nl)]

It`s fine to have newbies but they have to listen sometimes.
It isn`t fine if the russians are camping in the map bridges....
I have it played now several times with newbies and all were lost.

But it isn`t important to win if the newbies have seen what they have done wrong.

 

[watson122]

i am agree with you.....

 

[Ducky]

--SNIP--
Only players with wishes of arcade is to be treated bad.

No, they still should be treated with respect. They aren't TK-ing or doing any other misbehavior.

 

[kathmandu]

Yeah, it's just human nature. The "Boss" is particularly sensitive about driving off noobs with harsh rhetoric. We go through this at least once a year. What we do is to instruct admins to really make an effort to tone down or refrain from angry dialogue in text or voice. We recognize that new players are going to be clumsy for awhile until they understand the unforgiving dynamics of the RO2 environment. Players that insist on egaging in prolonged flaming are going to get a "time out." Newbies will learn because the game is an unforgiving teacher. The best way to look at it is that the community needs interested newbies who will be patient enough to "bleed" their way to success. Others will fade away. The community benefits as a whole. Be patient.

The voice of the wisdom!

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

In most cases with the free weekend and soon afterwards I have seen vets being very helpful and at least a few new players asking what they should be doing. Overall I would say that it was as good or better than past times.

That is not to say there weren't problems. A couple of times I was blatently TK'd several times over from around 10 meters or less from players pausing to see me then either shooting me or bayoneting me. This was on well known servers that will not be named (owners or admins weren't on at the time I'm guessing, but plenty of clan members were). More common were the probably accidental TK's I suffered from without appology.

Still, its good to see new players to bring up the numbers.

 

[fruitbat]

In one recent round I got frustrated with the lack of progress on Fallen Fighters playing Axis, so I nabbed the TL role - I'm not one of life's born leaders, although I have a reasonable grasp of the mechanics of the role.

I decided to get a little pro-active so pushed forward, gave orders and advised about arty and recon over VOIP (I always use VOIP to ask for arty marks, and recommend checking the map and warn of areas arty is going to fall in, but on well populated servers feel that too much "officer ranting" can easily become negative)and pushed forward myself through the usual pattern of gaining and loosing C and D.

What was interesting was that it was players with low honour levels who were prepared to follow me into the fray in the middle of FF - often equipped with bolts (and I was heartened to get a couple of comments that these players really enjoyed being encouraged and given the support they needed to succeed capping, and as a by-product getting more kills due to their proximity to the enemy).

Conversely, on the couple of occasions I had to use the radio in Univermag and thought I'd take a look see who the rows of blue dots at the windows on my map were.... a straw pole showed 15 of 19 were players with 80> honour.

Its a fact that nubs will make mistakes and even enter into "unacceptable" behaviour, but it's up to the experienced players to encourage them and show them the lead.

Screaming at them 'cos they don't play the game the way you want them to (and I do understand the frustration) will just end up with the game as a whole loosing potentially good players. When I first became a parent, a sage relative advised me to "encourage and compliment good behaviour and ignore the bad" - it works in FPS too!

 

[rolikiraly]

It seems there are 'players' who really take computer games too seriously (see Cocaine's story).
Actually for myself the hardest part is probably learning the maps. In a completely new map i will probably try to follow someone.
BTW when i first tried the game in multiplayer my first 3 deaths was from teammembers (and my first kill was with kar98, 147m, the enemy running to the side and only seeing his head ) so it's really not only the noobs that can 'spoil' the game for others

 

[omniconsumer]

To make up for the jerks I redouble my efforts at being helpful, kind while my patience seems to know no bounds.

** Oh by the way dudes, some of you guys need to please make use of paragraphs. I really want to read what you guys write, but don't want to beat my head against a wall of text.

 

[Cyper]

No, they still should be treated with respect. They aren't TK-ing or doing any other misbehavior.

No, not in my opinion.

The way I see it, people who want more arcade into the game are griefers. Like people who destroy my blocks in Minecraft. Difference is, in RO2 these people may potentially destroy the whole franchise. I despise these people. The latest game they ruined was Hitman... I have been a fan of Hitman for over a decade now. And now these fools have killed the game because they want people to play by their rules despite the fact that they have hundreds of others games to choose from.

In general I have no problem with new people. Not at all. Even if someone teamkill me I don't really care if they make an excuse. Its nothing more than good for the game itself because the community grow. I think people should put way more effort into helping new players and protect them when and if others pick at them,

But diluters... these people are worse than teamkillers, cheaters and hackers brought together. These people should be treated bad to make sure they never return.