Does anybody actually want the progression system?
- Thread starter Scarf Ace
- Start date
Criticising somebody's tone is a disguised ad-hominem. It's a stealthy irrelevant insult.
This is the bloody internet! Hell, this is a discussion board where most people don't even show their real names. This is no dinner table. This is not a school debate. Not a political one either. This is an informal debate about a video game on the internet. Nobody's entitled to any form of politeness.
Get used to it.
Oh, and by responding with what I think are flaws in an other's argument/opinion, I AM acknowledging it, because I'm targeting specific points. I have the right to disagree and the right to point out why I do so. And as I said, nobody has the right to feel offended, especially not on the internet.
What about realistic?
What about realistic?
of consequence in realistic mode
It's still annoying, and frankly pointless in classic.
What about realistic?
What about realistic?
Ramm had to eat those very words. As a result we now we have classic mode.
By my experience (the whole stat bug situation) they are game changing. the change is very gradual though when it goes up at a normal rate. When the stats went back down to normal levels/got reset, it became very damn clear how much they affect. Not only do you get superior drum mags on the PPSh for example, but your recoil also decreases significantly. It's a totally different beast to the lvl 0 one.
For starters, the soldiers you're playing as keep dying. Unless these skill points were proven to magically transcend from man to man as one died in the field and another entered the fray, this doesn't make much sense. Again I'll point to the stat bug/reset situation, it was proven the difference IS very significant and IS an advantage.
I don't even think a 1% stats advantage is right. By principle they have no place in FPS games.
That puts a strait jacket on your playstyle. Suddenly, you're forced to do nothing but hits with the bolties. Playing in ways that could help you or your team become deincentivised through metagaming. Things like suppression (still relevant with bolties, I should add), close range hip shots that may or may not hit, etc. will not be worth doing anymore.
If you do it based on how much time, or how many overall hits/kills you have instead of some form of ratio, then it still will not prove that you have someone who is qualified, it just is yet another limit on new players. There are better ways to get the right player on the sniper through some form of "meritocracy", I guess you could call it. I frankly don't think we need one other than the simple battlefield commission system already in place.
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So what your really saying is this is not a discussion worthy of debate, there is only what YOU think and nothing else matters. It wasn't up for discussion at all you just wanted an excuse to insult anyone who likes the progression system okay, and thanks for letting us all know how the internet works in your mind. Explain then by what rational thought you think your opinion matters one bit to the rest of us while we play it without you, what exactly is the point? If you don't play on servers that have this type of gameplay and I'm sure there are a few then what difference does it make if there are some that have all of these things and those of us who want bots, leveling or even egads, an action mode where you have to empty an entire clip into someone to kill them, what does any of that have to do with you? please I'm trying to understand how it could possibly be so important to start a one sided "discussion" that you have to have the last word every time someone says they have a different viewpoint. Geez Dude get a life and don't take it personal, after all it's the internet.
You ask the question as if we have a choice. I do not see how this is possible without dishonouring existing contracts with players.
Perhaps a more illuminating question is "do you want Classic mode 100% free of the yoke of progression?"
My answer to this question would be no because I think we all know what would happen to Classic player counts if players no longer earned progression points in Classic.
Perhaps a more illuminating question is "do you want Classic mode 100% free of the yoke of progression?"
My answer to this question would be no because I think we all know what would happen to Classic player counts if players no longer earned progression points in Classic.
Where did I say or even imply that? You're putting a lot of words in my mouth.
Is it wrong for me to disagree entirely with what somebody says? Are you saying I must force myself to concede? I don't have the final say, if they can bring a relevant response then they can do that, as I have.
Very simple. I made this thread to discuss this: With the arrival of classic, which embodies much of what the majority wanted HOS to be in the first place, whether the unlock system is even worth it. I also questioned its place in realism mode, where it completely contradicts the nature of the game mode. I don't give a flying **** about Action mode, though I think it was a bad idea on TWI's behalf. (We've got other threads for that)
As I said, I don't have the last word. Everyone's allowed to respond to everyone. That's how these boards work. I get to disagree, I get to take apart other people's points, as they can mine. Don't like that? That's your problem.
If the supporters of the unlock system had ever given a proper reason as to why they think it benefits the game (they have yet to adress things like balance, beginner friendliness, blatant upgrades, etc) then we wouldn't get to this discussion about tone, because they wouldn't be resorting to such crude means of trying to win a silly internet argument.
Can't find the option post-thread starting, I forgot it when creating the thread. Can I still do it somehow?
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It's pure psychology - people who feel attacked will respond by defending themselves in various ways. You're the person responsible for creation of hostile atmosphere with the way how you respond to posts of others. If you want proper discussion you need to prevent people from thinking that you're attacking them.Scarf Ace said:
Yes, but you shouldn't be surprised that people disagree with you even if they do simply, because they don't like you(r tone) and how you treat what they post. It's normal human reaction.Scarf Ace said:
I have to agree that unlocks can make the game harder for new people. Take Battlefield 3 for example - old players have all kinds of unlocks, making the life easier for them and even harder for new players. In Red Orchestra good thing is that bullets are equally deadly, so if you can get a clear shoot you don't need to put a whole clip into someone to kill him. However, bonuses to stats and certain unlocks (like mag with 250 ammo for MG 34 or drum mag for PPSh-41) give older players the upper hand, coupled with fact that they know how to play and how to move around maps by now.
No progression system, thank you.
Weapon add ons are fine, as long as they are available to everyone without having to farm exp to obtain the ability to choose them.
Weapon add ons are fine, as long as they are available to everyone without having to farm exp to obtain the ability to choose them.
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Agree Icey_Pain^
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I like the progressive system, its mostly cosmetic really.
~~~ Most Everyone wants realism so,
IRL Veteran Soldiers like the ones in the 6th Army could load/aim
sprint/fight better than the stat/bonus system in this game shows
(maxed out)with deadlier conquences.
I have read extensively on the subject.
IRL Soldiers also progress/got better if they didn't they were dead very soon. Longer survival = was to Mastered there weapon/Teamwork.
~~~~~
I respect the arguement/debate from both sides for n against progressive/stats.
But than again this is just a game.
The PC Soldier can say I spent hrs with my PC/game I have mastered my
weapons(mouse/keyboard) I don't like/need the games artificial progressive system. Ok fine your opinion.
Lets not forget the casual gamer/ppl that like stats/progressive weapon
unlocks. Its a hot potato to keep all happy from TWI point.
Points of view Gentlemen. No one is right but than again no one is wrong!
So you see there are choices, which is a good thing imo.
Classic for the nay sayers, no progression/unlocks.
Realism for ppl like me,
Action for the ppl that just want to have fun.
This is a business after all for TWI.
Getting sales is the bottom line. This should be on everyone mind
if you enjoy the game to keep it populated with new recruits.
Ongoing Sales means longevity with new content.
Just my 2 cents worth....
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Here is an idea. If you hate it just play Classic mode where its disabled. That was the whole reason they disabled in that mode so that RO1 lovers that don't want unlocks don't need to bother with it.
The ONLY thing I think needs to be changed about the unlock system is for Pistols to have similar level up requirements to Bolt Actions. Right now the grind to upgrade your pistol is unreasonable.
As for the whole unlock system itself. It's meant to keep people playing the game. How many people do you think would have played Killing Floor for so long if you couldn't level up your class? Probably not as many. I think the system in RO2 isn't as successful at keeping people playing because most of the unlocks suck an many class's get nothing. Only Assault players really get much out of it. That an German MG players.
The ONLY thing I think needs to be changed about the unlock system is for Pistols to have similar level up requirements to Bolt Actions. Right now the grind to upgrade your pistol is unreasonable.
As for the whole unlock system itself. It's meant to keep people playing the game. How many people do you think would have played Killing Floor for so long if you couldn't level up your class? Probably not as many. I think the system in RO2 isn't as successful at keeping people playing because most of the unlocks suck an many class's get nothing. Only Assault players really get much out of it. That an German MG players.
I don't know why you wouldn't want it in. It's not hurting you, you don't need to care about it, it doesn't do anything major. I honestly just think people should ignore it. Unranked servers are always there, so play on those.
Sorry for being harsh but if you guys don't want progression to be in Classic, go play a Unranked classic server, for everyone who doesn't want progression.
I'm pretty sure it's here to stay, especially since you DO have options to either ignore it or play unranked.
Sorry for being harsh but if you guys don't want progression to be in Classic, go play a Unranked classic server, for everyone who doesn't want progression.
I'm pretty sure it's here to stay, especially since you DO have options to either ignore it or play unranked.
as a side note, has anyone found a realism with classic loadout server yet? i would really like to try it, but i guess only the loadouts will be the same for all, not the stats progression. or is that a server option as well?
@ Scarf Ace; by the poll numbers so far it would appear that you are in the minority.(and that may change) Just because you can accuse people of blind stupidity doesn't mean they will agree with you based upon how well you can insult their position, it's not debatable. I paid extra for the Digital Deluxe version, pre-ordered in fact so I could play early. Then complaining entitled tards on the forums got their knickers into a wad about unlocks and such and with all that my extra 10 bucks to play an unlocked beta became irrelevant, kind of pissed me off actually. And Steam is still selling that version which if you don't know about the Forum discussion you might pay extra for something that is being altered or removed. So here you come with your "fair debate and counter arguments" as to why you think things should be removed and think you need a reason why others think it should stay well, I don't have to give a reason. If it pisses you off so be it, that's good enough for me. I don't find your reason to be good enough for the devs to consider it and I think if it is a server side choice then that is good enough to satisfy anyone. Don't like it play somewhere else. If I play on a server and I don't like the map, the game mode or the noobs I go to a different server, I like Bots, I like the realism mode, I like having fun, it is after all a game, it's not real and transfers no real skill to the player IRL but when people start complaining that it sucks, that it's not realistic because they didn't have that gun or that clip or that hat, blah, blah I want to put them on a real range with real guns and see how well they hit the target when real grenades are being lobbed at them because they will fill their pants with real sh!t,
Happy Memorial Day!
Happy Memorial Day!
I would say it's still a tie. Don't forget that the first 3 options are in the OP's favor and the last one in the opposite favor. Currently only 32 did vote. Way too early to make any conclusions. Today we reached a player count of 5000. Those 32 votes is not even 1% of today's player count peak.
I personally can't stand it in any game other than an MMORPG type game. Counter-Strike lasted for yeeeeears with no annoying grind system. Played DoD:S for years as well and loved it.
I understand the grind system has its playerbase who like it and it keeps them busy and 'somehow' interested in the game, but for people like me, it drags me down. It's all a matter of opinion, thus my opinion is it's disgusting in FPS games. But, not much I can do about it. I still enjoy RO2 but this type of game could really do without the grind and maybe keep a few realistic and helpful weapon upgrades like bayos and sniper scopes for an actual sniper rifle.
I understand the grind system has its playerbase who like it and it keeps them busy and 'somehow' interested in the game, but for people like me, it drags me down. It's all a matter of opinion, thus my opinion is it's disgusting in FPS games. But, not much I can do about it. I still enjoy RO2 but this type of game could really do without the grind and maybe keep a few realistic and helpful weapon upgrades like bayos and sniper scopes for an actual sniper rifle.