Do you want ROHOS to have DH's suppression system?

[[TW]Ramm-Jaeger]

We will have some type of suppression system, it's just not implemented yet. And it's effects will likely diminish the higher the rank of your player. The suppression effects in the original game were mainly there to help with letting you know that someone was shooting at you. It DOES work quite well when players are running in open ground, as I have watched plenty of players dive to the ground when I shoot at them. Where the original system doesn't work well is players already in cover. In those cases, they feel safe, and pop up anyway. I do like the effect that DH's suppression system has in making it harder to shoot back at MGs that are peppering your area with fire. I think something like that but more refined, smoother, and less extreme might be a good solution. And as someone that has been shot at, I just about crapped my pants when it happened to me. My brain like almost shut off for a millisecond. But I'm not a trained soldier, and the soldiers I know say that effect diminishes the more combat you see. And the elite delta SF guys I know say it can all but go away altogether eventually. Any way, that's my two cents.

 

[Dr.Atkins]

Darkest Hour's suppression is ****. However, something like Resistance and Liberation's is not. You can still return accurate fire, but your gun starts to shake a little bit and your vision gets a bit black. However, if someone rounds the corner and sprays half a magazine of a Thompson at you, you can still very easily return fire. None of this "BAM your.\,guns pointed at the sky" ****. So, this could go either way depending on how the devs decide to implement it, if they implement it.

RnL's current suppression takes a lot of control away from the player and it doesnt even work that well. Like u just explained, even a Thompson mag cant keep u from firing back which makes it like CS. So if a unskilled player shoots a skilled one, it will just draw the attention of the skilled and after that the unskilled is dead with 1 shot.
And on top of that the current RnL suppression takes the stamina away from the player which makes him a sitting duck cos he cant sprint to cover or dolphin jump to ditch.
The only good thing about the RnL suppression atm is that the heart is pouncing a lot which makes it immersive.
YouTube - RnL - Resistance & Liberation Open Beta 1.5 - Suppression Effect

 

[LemoN]

We will have some type of suppression system, it's just not implemented yet. And it's effects will likely diminish the higher the rank of your player. The suppression effects in the original game were mainly there to help with letting you know that someone was shooting at you. It DOES work quite well when players are running in open ground, as I have watched plenty of players dive to the ground when I shoot at them. Where the original system doesn't work well is players already in cover. In those cases, they feel safe, and pop up anyway. I do like the effect that DH's suppression system has in making it harder to shoot back at MGs that are peppering your area with fire. I think something like that but more refined, smoother, and less extreme might be a good solution. And as someone that has been shot at, I just about crapped my pants when it happened to me. My brain like almost shut off for a millisecond. But I'm not a trained soldier, and the soldiers I know say that effect diminishes the more combat you see. And the elite delta SF guys I know say it can all but go away altogether eventually. Any way, that's my two cents.

Very nice!

One more question.
MG's in the original RO were way too inaccurate; is this going to change as well? This was a very important part of the DH system IMO.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

We will have some type of suppression system, it's just not implemented yet. And it's effects will likely diminish the higher the rank of your player. The suppression effects in the original game were mainly there to help with letting you know that someone was shooting at you. It DOES work quite well when players are running in open ground, as I have watched plenty of players dive to the ground when I shoot at them. Where the original system doesn't work well is players already in cover. In those cases, they feel safe, and pop up anyway. I do like the effect that DH's suppression system has in making it harder to shoot back at MGs that are peppering your area with fire. I think something like that but more refined, smoother, and less extreme might be a good solution. And as someone that has been shot at, I just about crapped my pants when it happened to me. My brain like almost shut off for a millisecond. But I'm not a trained soldier, and the soldiers I know say that effect diminishes the more combat you see. And the elite delta SF guys I know say it can all but go away altogether eventually. Any way, that's my two cents.

Thanks for the information. It sounds as if something decent is in the works that should satisfy most people.

 

[REZ]

We will have some type of suppression system, it's just not implemented yet; I do like the effect that DH's suppression system has in making it harder to shoot back at MGs that are peppering your area with fire. I think something like that but more refined, smoother, and less extreme might be a good solution.

............

 

[<*>Nora The Martyr]

RnL's current suppression takes a lot of control away from the player and it doesnt even work that well. Like u just explained, even a Thompson mag cant keep u from firing back which makes it like CS. So if a unskilled player shoots a skilled one, it will just draw the attention of the skilled and after that the unskilled is dead with 1 shot.
And on top of that the current RnL suppression takes the stamina away from the player which makes him a sitting duck cos he cant sprint to cover or dolphin jump to ditch.
The only good thing about the RnL suppression atm is that the heart is pouncing a lot which makes it immersive.
YouTube - RnL - Resistance & Liberation Open Beta 1.5 - Suppression Effect

That heart-pounding is an awesome effect.

I started to notice my heart-beat matching the sound!

 

[Darrosquall]

We will have some type of suppression system, it's just not implemented yet. And it's effects will likely diminish the higher the rank of your player. The suppression effects in the original game were mainly there to help with letting you know that someone was shooting at you. It DOES work quite well when players are running in open ground, as I have watched plenty of players dive to the ground when I shoot at them. Where the original system doesn't work well is players already in cover. In those cases, they feel safe, and pop up anyway. I do like the effect that DH's suppression system has in making it harder to shoot back at MGs that are peppering your area with fire. I think something like that but more refined, smoother, and less extreme might be a good solution. And as someone that has been shot at, I just about crapped my pants when it happened to me. My brain like almost shut off for a millisecond. But I'm not a trained soldier, and the soldiers I know say that effect diminishes the more combat you see. And the elite delta SF guys I know say it can all but go away altogether eventually. Any way, that's my two cents.

Sounds good, thanks!

 

[Dwin]

For example you could significantly up the weapon settle time when the player is being suppressed, so if he manages to get his weapon in a stable and supported position, he can still take a shot. Since the weapon would have a long settle time, that would also mean said enemy would have a longer time to throw lead at the player and his cover, possibly penetrating it and killing him. A system like this would strongly encourage a player to stay in cover and concealment, rather than just grabbing his rifle and jiggling it around like DH does.

Quoted for emphasis. Excellent suggestion by Bobdog.

We will have some type of suppression system, it's just not implemented yet. And it's effects will likely diminish the higher the rank of your player...

Wouldn't this give players with a higher rank an unfair advantage over those with a lower rank? Losing a firefight due to a game mechanic that is out of the players control (e.g., dying simply because the other player had less suppression effects than you) is frustrating and is in the same vein as DH's flinching taking control away from your ability to aim.

 

[SheepDip]

Thanks Ramm, nice to know. Can't wait to see what you come up with.

 

[Xendance]

Quoted for emphasis. Excellent suggestion by Bobdog.



Wouldn't this give players with a higher rank an unfair advantage over those with a lower rank? Losing a firefight due to a game mechanic that is out of the players control (e.g., dying simply because the other player had less suppression effects than you) is frustrating and is in the same vein as DH's flinching taking control away from your ability to aim.

Game mechanic, which is influenced/decided by players' past combat performance. So it's not that gamey, you could think that it's there to represent the battle hardened soldiers (which the hero thing is basically) that don't flinch when an air bomb explodes near them.:IS2:

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

Game mechanic, which is influenced/decided by players' past combat performance. So it's not that gamey, you could think that it's there to represent the battle hardened soldiers (which the hero thing is basically) that don't flinch when an air bomb explodes near them.:IS2:

no matter how you cut it, it's still gamey. it's an artificial mechanic that affects the avatar and takes control away from the player.

the players' past combat performance should influence the player, not his avatars' past performance influencing his avatar. if i'm (me not my avatar) "battle hardened" from playing hours and hours of the game, then I the player should determine whether or not i will flinch when a bomb drops near me.

in short, the ranking system should never end up applying effects on the player (via the player's avatar) that can alter the balance of gameplay.

 

[<*>Nora The Martyr]

Ok SiN next time you play RO invite me over, so I can unload a clip over your head when your being shot at....taking pop-shots at mgs.

That way we can realistically simulate crapping pants together.

 

[Bobdog]

the players' past combat performance should influence the player, not his avatars' past performance influencing his avatar. if i'm (me not my avatar) "battle hardened" from playing hours and hours of the game, then I the player should determine whether or not i will flinch when a bomb drops near me.

It isn't tracking your avatar's performance; it is tracking YOUR performance. If you (not your avatar) are "battled hardened" from playing hours and hours of the game, you will have earned a similarly battle hardened avatar who doesn't flinch.

 

[Reise]

Ok SiN next time you play RO invite me over, so I can unload a clip over your head when your being shot at....taking pop-shots at mgs.

That way we can realistically simulate crapping pants together.

Humor aside, the main difference in war I'd assume, is that 99% of the time people aren't aware they're being shot at. Other than hearing the same cracks and bangs they've been hearing since they got in the thick of it anyway.

Heavy suppression effects that essentially disable people when bullets go their way is just too much. It's enough that we get effects when grenades go off and all that, I don't need to feel like my avatar just took some hard drugs.

I might change my mind if there was a variational system. Having the effects become more severe the closer a round comes to someone. Hiding under cover should seriously lessen the effects, though. You might crap yourself but you aren't immediately going blind and shaking like a tree in the wind.

 

[VariousNames]

We will have some type of suppression system, it's just not implemented yet. And it's effects will likely diminish the higher the rank of your player. The suppression effects in the original game were mainly there to help with letting you know that someone was shooting at you. It DOES work quite well when players are running in open ground, as I have watched plenty of players dive to the ground when I shoot at them. Where the original system doesn't work well is players already in cover. In those cases, they feel safe, and pop up anyway. I do like the effect that DH's suppression system has in making it harder to shoot back at MGs that are peppering your area with fire. I think something like that but more refined, smoother, and less extreme might be a good solution. And as someone that has been shot at, I just about crapped my pants when it happened to me. My brain like almost shut off for a millisecond. But I'm not a trained soldier, and the soldiers I know say that effect diminishes the more combat you see. And the elite delta SF guys I know say it can all but go away altogether eventually. Any way, that's my two cents.

If the suppression effects are reduced in efficacy based on your rank, then you've just lost a sale.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

It isn't tracking your avatar's performance; it is tracking YOUR performance. If you (not your avatar) are "battled hardened" from playing hours and hours of the game, you will have earned a similarly battle hardened avatar who doesn't flinch.

well sure, from that way of looking at it, yes it's tracking my performance.....but actual "tracking" isn't exactly what i'm getting at. i'm ok with performance tracking, as in having my "rep" or "experience" displayed through asthetic features like what's already been confirmed (such as medals, clothing, the looks of weapons or face etc...). that's because those things are not affecting gameplay.

from a gameplay perspective, i (me pyshically) can control whether or not I will "flinch" when say, an arty round lands close or an mg's bullets wiz by. my gameplay experience will dictate the effects "suppression" type game mechanics/features will have on my physical actions. and by "flinch" i mean my physical ability/inability to control the way my fingers interact with my mouse/keyboard which control the movements/actions of my avatar. realistic game mechanics, such as the ones i quoted from REZ, nimsky and zets in an earlier post, can affect me the player and then in turn affect my actions in game that i display through my avatar. that's much different than having unrealistic game mechanics influencing my avatar, which in turn affect me the actual player.

the way it currently looks to be set (similar to KF's perk progression system) is that the game will (to a degree) exibit control over the avatar based on the players previous performance....which imo is not necissary and detrimental to gameplay. if you want the avatar to be affected, you should first focus on affecting the player as HE controls HIS avatar, not the game.

btw, the "crapping your pants" comment is a gross exaggeration of what i'm describing. it's most likely impossible that any game will actually foce a player to do something as drastic as jumping out of his chair, screaming, crying or like martyr said "crap their pants". however realistic game mechanics can affect the player's control of his fingers in pressing buttons or moving his mouse. they can affect the player's judgement and cause him to make poor decisions. they can affect the players visuals and limit his effectiveness at seeing enemies or landmarks etc.... in the end you achieve the desired result in getting players to act the way you want them too, like finding cover when being suppressed.

 

[Stormer]

If the suppression effects are reduced in efficacy based on your rank, then you've just lost a sale.

yeah, this is just heading to cod levels of arcade... what next?
less recoil with higher rank? more health?

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Maybe the suppression effects and the decreased affect it has on the player as he advances will be subtle, barely noticeable, at least I hope so.

I know as a player, I don't want it to disappear altogether just because I've played the game a large number of hours. That is one of the things I like about DH's system is that I have been playing for more than four years and I can still feel the suppression.

At the same time, we can't assume there is going to be some superhuman difference between a green soldier and a veteren where the new player is shaking like a leaf and the veteren doesn't even blink. I gather the difference will be noticeable, but subtle at the same time (I hope ). I think some of you think there may be some really drastic variation and as of yet, we have no reason to believe that.

 

[[TW]Ramm-Jaeger]

You guys are really going to discourage devs posting in these feedback threads if EVERY time we post some info on the game you jump to conclusions and always assume that the way we've implemented any new system is "Omg WTF it's arcade COD" worst case scenario

First off it IS realistic to have players characters increase their abilities over time. It happened to real soldiers, it's going to happen with ours. That doesn't mean it will be implemented in a way that is crazy unrealistic COD level - with vast changes to capabilities and lame perks like guys able to magically crap grenades when they die. The effects of any capability changes will be really subtle, and probably be a max difference of say 10% between lowest rank and highest rank.

We'll likely have server setting to disable some of this stuff for things like competitive play. And we'll have servers set up with min/max rank so players of similar skill levels can play together. But really, the gameplay effects of rank are pretty subtle, and once you experience it you'll likely think it's no big deal.

Regarding the questions on MGs, yes they are more accurate, but also have more/different recoil based on our experiences now firing the real mgs. So firing in bursts will be really important.

 

[LemoN]

Regarding the questions on MGs, yes they are more accurate, but also have more/different recoil based on our experiences now firing the real mgs. So firing in bursts will be really important.

Nice.

Just one question concerning the recoil of MG's.
A MG with a bipod is going to mostly recoil backwards, not upwards. Will this be portrayed that way or will we have upwards recoiling MG's?