I definately miss the slow reload times. The current ranked up reload times are silly and too fast because of the reasons the other people mentioned.
Do you miss slow reload times?
- Thread starter hanky
- Start date
you should have made a poll on this thread. woulda offset the tool that downvoted you.
i'm all for it. miss lots of stuff. still the best game out there. gonna love watching it get better over the next few years!
I'm not just going off youtube videos, I own a few historical rifles myself. I've also interviewed and talked to many Canadian vets from WWII and Afghanistan.
You are right about reloading in the field vs reloading at the range, but not in the way that you might think. Talk to any vet about combat, and the most important thing they will tell you about being in a firefight is the need to get rounds into your weapon and going down range as quickly as possible. People are shooting at you, people are dieing.
Have you ever been in shock or had a rush of adrenaline when either you or someone else is hurt? Your dirty, tired hands, or even that bullet in your shoulder become near nonexistent. I talked to a corporal that was engaged during the Sheldt Estuary Campaign who hadn't even realized he was stitched twice by a German MG until someone looked over at him and asked if he was alright.
This might not always be the case, for sure. Some guys get hit in the foot and take a ticket home. But, like you said, there are many variables to consider.
Edit :: I'm not trying to put you down, nor was I the "tool" that downvoted you (in-fact I just upvoted you for engaging in conversation). I'm merely playing devil's advocate and interjecting MY experiences with this topic. In my experience, it is a myth created by realism games; much the same way being unable to reload an M1 Garand mid-clip is a myth created by mainstream games.
Take, for example, the "mad minute" during WWI. During training, guys were getting 15 hits on a 12" target at 300 yd within one minute using a bolt-action rifle. In combat, it was not uncommon for even moderately trained riflemen to greatly exceed this score.
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There's minute tasks I do everyday of my life and still I fumble on them when I'm multitasking/stressed/busy. I miss the old align and push reload and the jerk and yank bolting and the deep sonic boom sound of the Kar98k
hockeywarrior
FNG / Fresh Meat
The MG reload times are truly silly, especially for the MG34. Your character retrieves the round drums like their small and right in front of his face. This is made even more hilarious by the super fast 200 round belt reload -- it's even faster than the Modern Warfare games depict! (with the SAW, RPK, etc).
I think the reload is fine, but I'm only level two or something like that.
This is, imo, yet another mark against leveled weapons. As a community we do not all have the same frame of reference for a discussion about game statistics. That's another thread though
This is, imo, yet another mark against leveled weapons. As a community we do not all have the same frame of reference for a discussion about game statistics. That's another thread though
Some animations are rather good, some are hopeless and unnatural. Yet, all are too fast to consider realistic. The person who did them had NO real-life experience, obviously, and that translates intro ridiculous fantasies such as PPSH-41 drum ver. / PTRS reloading animation to name a few.
I won't really take issue with the rest of your post, but this bit really surprised me.
How exactly was the 'score' assessed in WWI? And how exactly does this square up with the relatively low casualty rates from small-arms?
More directly on topic, my experience (admittedly from exercise and the range, never been in combat) was that reloading a modern, ergonomic assault rifle using well-designed magazines stored in modern webbing pouches took a bit longer than we see in the game. I'd expect the less ergonomic weapons shown in the game would take even longer to reload.
I'd also expect that under combat conditions times would get worse not better, as a typical effects of high adrenalin include trembling hands and loss of fine motor control and coordination.
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Real reload times are quite slow.
I collect historic firearms - Mosins, SKSs, Lugers, Tokarevs, etc etc.
More importantly, I play airsoft using Soviet WWII gear (the stuff is actually very effective if used right). Reloading in the field under fire is real different from reloading at a clean comfortable range.
Now I can reload an AK47 about as quickly as RO2 guys do it... Cause I use 2 mags taped together.
If I have to swap a RPK drum mag from one of my belt pouches, here's what I have to do, in order:
1) Take the old drum out, put it down - 2s
2) Open the pouch (I use the East German pouches, Soviet ones are harder to work with) - 1s
3) Take the new drum out, ram it into the gun, swear cause drums tend to have fitting problems - 3s
4) Put the old drum into the pouch - 3s
5) Test fire the gun to make sure it feeds correctly (anyone not doing this will get A LOT of unfortunate surprises) - 1s
Now if I have to do this stuff lying down or on the move or somethin - add another 5-10 sec
... I miss the times from RO mod when you have to pick up the dead guy's weapon and each mag/clip individually
Best wishes,
Daniel
I collect historic firearms - Mosins, SKSs, Lugers, Tokarevs, etc etc.
More importantly, I play airsoft using Soviet WWII gear (the stuff is actually very effective if used right). Reloading in the field under fire is real different from reloading at a clean comfortable range.
Now I can reload an AK47 about as quickly as RO2 guys do it... Cause I use 2 mags taped together.
If I have to swap a RPK drum mag from one of my belt pouches, here's what I have to do, in order:
1) Take the old drum out, put it down - 2s
2) Open the pouch (I use the East German pouches, Soviet ones are harder to work with) - 1s
3) Take the new drum out, ram it into the gun, swear cause drums tend to have fitting problems - 3s
4) Put the old drum into the pouch - 3s
5) Test fire the gun to make sure it feeds correctly (anyone not doing this will get A LOT of unfortunate surprises) - 1s
Now if I have to do this stuff lying down or on the move or somethin - add another 5-10 sec
... I miss the times from RO mod when you have to pick up the dead guy's weapon and each mag/clip individually
Best wishes,
Daniel
Okay, the a/m posts are about the weapons. When i am talking
about a loader in the tanks, in my opinion it`s much to qiuck reloading.
When you compare it with ROost there is much different in time.
about a loader in the tanks, in my opinion it`s much to qiuck reloading.
When you compare it with ROost there is much different in time.
Haha, thats exactely what i wanted to write right noch. Lying behind a try with BB
I think its a tactical issue, too.
If reloading times go more realistic, you have to think twice, if you change your magazine oder wait untul youre in good cover.
I think in this way you do something against this spraying guys, too.
*klick*
If reloading times go more realistic, you have to think twice, if you change your magazine oder wait untul youre in good cover.
I think in this way you do something against this spraying guys, too.
*klick*
Well, I do miss it. But maybe ro2 is just to fast paced for the old reload style in RO1. Everything felt slower in Ro1 vs RO2. So guess TWI figured if they needed to speed up everything in order for it to work.
Just a guess, no clue what there thoughts were. Just wondering if they put the reload times back to RO1 if it would work game play wise.
Just a guess, no clue what there thoughts were. Just wondering if they put the reload times back to RO1 if it would work game play wise.
I dont miss slow reloading times at all.
I hate it when its a stressful situation and the soldier starts whistling and puts the bullet in.
When you reloaded the gun hundreds of times you can do it really quick, you leave your pouch open so you can get the bullets easily I dont think anybody would seriously open and close the pouch everytime
I hate it when its a stressful situation and the soldier starts whistling and puts the bullet in.
When you reloaded the gun hundreds of times you can do it really quick, you leave your pouch open so you can get the bullets easily I dont think anybody would seriously open and close the pouch everytime
Yeah and then find out your ammo is no longer there after a couple minutes crawling/sprinting/jumping. Trust me, anything not secured by a snap WILL get lost. That said, I usually use just one snap out of two, holds stuff fine but easier to open.
Aanyway, I'll agree with you that under stress stuff tends to work better. I sometimes fiddle when trying to put mags in off the field, but in a shootout I just ram them in without thinking.
HOWEVER, that does not cancel laws of physics and common sense. You'll need time to take the mag out, to reload, AND to put the old mag away. Currently RO2 only models the time needed for actual reload, and even that is quite fast.
There are tricks, of course; e.g. with a Kalashnikov you can knock the old mag out by hitting the mag catch with the new mag, then ram the new mag in - that takes about as much time as RO2 reload. But most WWII guns are more complicated to reload, and you need to discard the old mag to make fast reloads - putting it away doubles your time.
Best wishes,
Daniel.
But why would you faf with putting away the mag when under fire? Or stripper clips either, for that matter. Drop it to the ground and pick it up when you live, or get new ones. That empty mag now does you no good until after the battle, so why worry about it?
These aren't collectors or hobbiests losing money with every round they shoot. these are professional soldiers supplied by entire countries worth of industry. Ammo is cheap, soldiers lives aren't.
Sure there would be times when low supplies or distance from supply would demand you make every round and mag count, but my understanding is Stalingrad wasn't one of those times (in matters of ammunition and small arms, that is). That's part of the reason it became such a bloody meatgrinder of a hellhole, there wasn't a lack of small arms man shootiness.
I'm going to be the first to call "placebo effect" on the (dry) MG34 reload--it is exactly 6 seconds in both Ostfront and Red Orchestra 2. That's right--I did some comparisons yesterday and today:
The k98 (level 10) takes 4.28 seconds in RO2 and 6 seconds (too slow, honestly, given the ease of using Mauser stripper clips) in Ostfront.
The Walther P38 takes 4 seconds (dry) in Ostfront and 3.5 in RO2.
The SVT40 takes 5.5 seconds (dry) in Ostfront and 4.25 seconds in RO2.
The PPSh takes 5 seconds in Ostfront and 4.25 seconds in RO2 (level 0 stick mag, because for some reason my stats are temporarily reset today).
So there are some differences, but the MG certainly hasn't been touched in that regard. Test your claims before you make them. Always.
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Now I've been complaining a lot about RO2 lately, so I'm going to defend it on this occasion.
Firstly, the "disappearing mag" phenomenon was part of Ostfront too--you immediately pulled out your new PPSh drum or MP40 mag upon reloading, without having to carefully put away your partially empty magazine. It's also been part of every single FPS since the dawn of time--Unless the dev team wants to make a separate, slower reloading animation from a partially empty magazine than from a completely empty magazine (discarded on the ground), I find the current system at least acceptable. They have a small team, and separate animations for stressful conditions, partially empty magazines, etc... are really beyond their manpower levels.
Next, the Tripwire devs have extensive experience with the WWII weapons they put in the game. They're still the same crew that worked on Ostfront. Alan Wilson owns most of the semiautomatic weapons personally, and many of the devs have at least gotten the chance to live-fire the automatics.
For the record, RO2 has some of the best reload animations of any FPS. They don't take easy shortcuts--they show you every detail. You can see the magazine of the DP-28 rotate as you fire it.:IS2: You can do a brass check. :IS2: There are unique reload animations for weapons when you are in cover versus out of cover. :IS2:They even tackled the reload animation for the Model 1895 Nagant--possibly the WWII weapon with the worst-concieved reloading procedure out of the entire Russian or German arsenal.:IS2: What "rediculous fantasies" are you going on about?
Finally, animations are very, very difficult to make--some might say the hardest part of developing any video game. There are few shortcuts here--you literally have to work out and model every motion of the entire process, making sure the mag lines up with the weapon, etc...
Given that, I'd venture to say that their animations look natural enough that I see them as plausible, if not realistic. They're eons ahead of the competition, which still uses the system where your unemptied mags re-congeale into a massive ammunition pool from which full magazines magically emerge... Even the vaunted (deservedly so) king of realism ArmA II has an M4A3 reload animation of just 3.5 seconds.
Besides, they have bigger issues to focus on right now...
The k98 (level 10) takes 4.28 seconds in RO2 and 6 seconds (too slow, honestly, given the ease of using Mauser stripper clips) in Ostfront.
The Walther P38 takes 4 seconds (dry) in Ostfront and 3.5 in RO2.
The SVT40 takes 5.5 seconds (dry) in Ostfront and 4.25 seconds in RO2.
The PPSh takes 5 seconds in Ostfront and 4.25 seconds in RO2 (level 0 stick mag, because for some reason my stats are temporarily reset today).
So there are some differences, but the MG certainly hasn't been touched in that regard. Test your claims before you make them. Always.
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Now I've been complaining a lot about RO2 lately, so I'm going to defend it on this occasion.
Firstly, the "disappearing mag" phenomenon was part of Ostfront too--you immediately pulled out your new PPSh drum or MP40 mag upon reloading, without having to carefully put away your partially empty magazine. It's also been part of every single FPS since the dawn of time--Unless the dev team wants to make a separate, slower reloading animation from a partially empty magazine than from a completely empty magazine (discarded on the ground), I find the current system at least acceptable. They have a small team, and separate animations for stressful conditions, partially empty magazines, etc... are really beyond their manpower levels.
Next, the Tripwire devs have extensive experience with the WWII weapons they put in the game. They're still the same crew that worked on Ostfront. Alan Wilson owns most of the semiautomatic weapons personally, and many of the devs have at least gotten the chance to live-fire the automatics.
For the record, RO2 has some of the best reload animations of any FPS. They don't take easy shortcuts--they show you every detail. You can see the magazine of the DP-28 rotate as you fire it.:IS2: You can do a brass check. :IS2: There are unique reload animations for weapons when you are in cover versus out of cover. :IS2:They even tackled the reload animation for the Model 1895 Nagant--possibly the WWII weapon with the worst-concieved reloading procedure out of the entire Russian or German arsenal.:IS2: What "rediculous fantasies" are you going on about?
Finally, animations are very, very difficult to make--some might say the hardest part of developing any video game. There are few shortcuts here--you literally have to work out and model every motion of the entire process, making sure the mag lines up with the weapon, etc...
Given that, I'd venture to say that their animations look natural enough that I see them as plausible, if not realistic. They're eons ahead of the competition, which still uses the system where your unemptied mags re-congeale into a massive ammunition pool from which full magazines magically emerge... Even the vaunted (deservedly so) king of realism ArmA II has an M4A3 reload animation of just 3.5 seconds.
Besides, they have bigger issues to focus on right now...