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Do you find KF-Bedlam too difficult?
- Thread starter [TW]Swag
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Well it's one of the harder maps but defnitely not too hard.
Hospital Horrors however is a bit too hard because of its bad trader places and it actually is very open.
Hospital Horrors however is a bit too hard because of its bad trader places and it actually is very open.
The only reason I find Bedlam too hard is that it's difficult to see a damn thing in that map. D: Raising my brightness for that map causes a little more harm than good, i.e. when I raise it to the point I can actually see somewhat decent, it makes the other maps blindingly bright for my fragile little eyes. However, I do think that some of the extra crawler/stalker spawns placed in that map are a little bit too harsh. It seems to me that some spawn points that are placed in certain areas make an otherwise somewhat-survivable place a completely suicidal choice.
In every map in the game, there's at least one decent and somewhat obvious place to camp and win (even in solo), still coupled with something of a struggle even when the team is well-organised, which is great, since it's accessible to newer players as they are given time to experiment with the game while at the same time, you look at the veterans who have really close-knit teams that survive the difficult spots whilst avoiding the suicidal spots that are in every map. Bedlam (and Hospital Horrors) doesn't really seem to have any accessible camping spots as far as I can see, being someone who doesn't spend ages poring over the game for little its secrets, and all I've been able to identify in those maps are the places that will get you killed easily, namely everywhere aside from a couple that are still bloody difficult.
It's cool that the spawns are often very close to the players, but the fact that they are in places that absolutely ruin an otherwise decent plan isn't cool at all.
A clan with great knowledge of the game can win these maps, but if you look at the amount of people who have achievements on those maps as opposed to the rest of the players, it's too hard in any form of public game, no matter what idea you have. Not everyone understands the slightly-overpowered methods to find in the game, nor the Zed flow, the actual unwritten perk roles, or even their weapons!
If you ask me, Swag, the Tripwire forum isn't really the most fantastic choice for overall opinions on the game since the majority of regulars who are likely to see this thread are HOE-beaters. Isn't there something you do to get the opinions of the more casual players, like with the balance beta?
In every map in the game, there's at least one decent and somewhat obvious place to camp and win (even in solo), still coupled with something of a struggle even when the team is well-organised, which is great, since it's accessible to newer players as they are given time to experiment with the game while at the same time, you look at the veterans who have really close-knit teams that survive the difficult spots whilst avoiding the suicidal spots that are in every map. Bedlam (and Hospital Horrors) doesn't really seem to have any accessible camping spots as far as I can see, being someone who doesn't spend ages poring over the game for little its secrets, and all I've been able to identify in those maps are the places that will get you killed easily, namely everywhere aside from a couple that are still bloody difficult.
It's cool that the spawns are often very close to the players, but the fact that they are in places that absolutely ruin an otherwise decent plan isn't cool at all.
A clan with great knowledge of the game can win these maps, but if you look at the amount of people who have achievements on those maps as opposed to the rest of the players, it's too hard in any form of public game, no matter what idea you have. Not everyone understands the slightly-overpowered methods to find in the game, nor the Zed flow, the actual unwritten perk roles, or even their weapons!If you ask me, Swag, the Tripwire forum isn't really the most fantastic choice for overall opinions on the game since the majority of regulars who are likely to see this thread are HOE-beaters. Isn't there something you do to get the opinions of the more casual players, like with the balance beta?
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Yeah, Bedlam used to be the hardest map before Hospital Horrors was added, but it was never "too hard".
We need diversity in the difficulty of the maps, so dont you dare make Bedlam easier Tripwire. Same with Hospital, while its gotta be one of the hardest maps out there, I still love it just for this very reason. I like challenge, and its always fun trying to beat it.
Also I like the lighting in Bedlam the most out of all official maps. KF is supposed to be survival HORROR, but maps like Manor, West London, Mountain Pass... they are just NOT scary, AT ALL. Dont get me wrong tho, they are good maps, just the wrong atmosphere for the game imo. We need more maps like Bedlam, doesnt have to be as hard and confusing but similar lighting.
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Yeah that's true. There is 1 good place in Hospitalhorrors but that's it.
And actually it's quite boring if a map won't offer any good places to stay! If maps would have mroe then 1 good place but maybe with some differences then the game would be much more fun.
Farm is a good example for that. It offers many places to stay and they all have their "charm"
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And yet there's a crawler/stalker spawn right behind you, two long hallways in some sort of L-shape that makes you a fantastic target for husks, in the middle of both hallways, there's spawns that pour zeds out not too far from you and they make Husks difficult to focus on especially when they're Gorefasts, Sirens, Scrakes, or Fleshpounds pouring in from those points. I have survived in that location before, but it required some really close-knit teamwork. That kind of teamwork is pretty damn rare in public games, which are where the majority of KF games are played. Veterans have done it, I'm capable of doing it, newbies are most certainly not. For them, it's a complete death-trap.
The other day I was playing through Hospital Horrors, Bedlam, and Santa's Lair with a few public new-ish folk and they constantly complained about the difficulty. However, in other maps like Biolab, Farm, Westlondon, and Foundry, despite a couple of deaths, they seemed to find it pretty doable with standard teamwork. A challenge, but not an overwhelming one. They would have found it overwhelming on a higher difficulty setting, which seems to be the dev's intent, but a different map should not count as a difficulty setting, which is how it seems to play out for these examples. (I don't play Santa's Lair much, but I honestly can't seem to find a decent place. The only way I've won that map is by using Benny Hill tactics.
Yeah, the darkness on Bedlam is pretty damn great, but with the slightly more confusing labyrinth design of the map, it turns out to mix pretty badly. Farm and the night version of westlondon are both dark, but their design makes it so that it's not a complete... bedlam.
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There are, perhaps, better places to get a more focused set of feedback from people who actually understand the nuances of Killing Floor; however, I wanted to get some talk about it going someplace very open... even trolls present valid views from time to time.
My feeling is simply this: I concede the map is very challenging. It's overall design philosophy is to push the player(s) around. There are many designed hold out locations but the lesser of them are also designed to force the player(s) to either be exceedingly/outstandingly good or get flushed out. That said, I also want the map to be playable and enjoyable not abusive.
My feeling is simply this: I concede the map is very challenging. It's overall design philosophy is to push the player(s) around. There are many designed hold out locations but the lesser of them are also designed to force the player(s) to either be exceedingly/outstandingly good or get flushed out. That said, I also want the map to be playable and enjoyable not abusive.
I can understand that, maps like Foundry and Icebreaker seem to be beaten best when the team rushes around as a group delivering some fast-paced action and it really is very damn enjoyable. The trouble is, every single player seems to have a "dig in and hold out" mindset for every map, and that's very hard to get out of.
Having a bunch of maps where players would generally "dig in" and then having a bunch of maps where players would typically find themselves rushing around as you described is essentially like having two totally different gamemodes, because the game is often looked at completely differently by those in the know when they are shown the differences between those two sets of maps.
I personally think that the presentation of KF steers people to always go for the "dig in" methods because on the outside, KF looks like a defense game in almost every aspect that gets shown and most people will think "we have to hold out in this spot, because moving around the map is a suicidal option because this game is all about defense" which is true in some maps, but in other maps, it proves to be the opposite. But some people just don't know that. I've won Bedlam, Foundry and Icebreaker by rushing-around gameplay, because as someone who understands the game as not always being a defense game, I knew that standing in one place would get me killed.
you want to keep the map enjoyable? dont ruin the lighting.
KF-Bedlam is the most an Official map I like because it has KF feelings...
the game is made for that! not to become some kids game with peaceful environment, I have been playing KF since 2005 with horror and i dont want it to change just because of kids wants to play it but too scared of dark at night :/
and bedlam is a fine map, nothing wrong with it since it released so i say vote NO!
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This is right definition ; the guys playing on my clan server ( and me ) found it hard But truly enjoyable and a fair challenge to play . I wish there will be more official maps like this , not saying that the others aren
Actually that won't work on HOE. It's either stay on a place and survive or get overrun and die. I do understand the nuances of Killing Floor, have all HOE Achievements but Hospital Horrors and was playing the mod since 2005, however running arround in a map in order to survive only works till suicidal.
Actually it's fun changing the location during waves however on HOE this will most likely end fataly.
But i wouldn't change anything on Bedlam, as it's fun to play imo.
To improve the gameplay of KF it would need something that will force you to change your location. Otherwise players will always try to survive and that works on a good place.
Bedlam also has an ideal place to camp and that's the "balcony". I totaly see your concerns, however Bedlam is a very cool map and adds a lot of action to Killing Floor, if you'r playing on hard or Suicidal.
It will allow you fight through Hallways and find places to "rest".
BUT:
On HOE some Crawlers kill you in seconds and that's why a room with Crawler spawns in it just will make you mad and get you killed once you don't pay attention or have to kill a FP and so on. This then will get frustrating and you'll search a good place, which you then will always use on HOE.
In a nutshell: The slightes mistake and your whole squad is gone! On HOE "get flushed out", means getting killed most of the time. And that will then just make it frustrating if you need the best players to stand the slightest chance on the wrong place.
On HOE servers I only see players camp on one spot, however that's always the same in KF.
To conclude:
You can make the map easier and thus make it less attractive for games till Suicidal or make it easier and less frustrating on HOE.
I won't change anything on it, as it just is fun to play in my opinion.
The map has an awesome atmosphere but sadly some places never really get used.
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Its not too difficult at all, on any given difficulty
There's nothing really wrong with the map either, the lighting really gives it the KF feel, instead of a super bright Walmart-like building
There's nothing really wrong with the map either, the lighting really gives it the KF feel, instead of a super bright Walmart-like building
Bedlam is my favorite official map. Very challenging but not impossibly hard. I wish there were more maps like it instead of Mountainpass and whatnot.
I play morte casually than the other people who have answered in the thread, doing the game on hard, not suicidal or HOE (incidentially, I've got Bedlam on pre-HOE Suicidal, but that was due to a good team).
I think Bedlam works very well, because it forces the players to work together. On some maps, like West London, Farm and Mountainpass, you can have a random rambo along and still do fine. Icebreaker, HH, Suburbia and Bedlam, you live and die together. So while Bedlam is in the hard group, it is not in a class of it's own hard. The only difference is that it might be harder to find your way in, but that basically boils down to playing enough to know your way in the map.
I think Bedlam works very well, because it forces the players to work together. On some maps, like West London, Farm and Mountainpass, you can have a random rambo along and still do fine. Icebreaker, HH, Suburbia and Bedlam, you live and die together. So while Bedlam is in the hard group, it is not in a class of it's own hard. The only difference is that it might be harder to find your way in, but that basically boils down to playing enough to know your way in the map.