Dive to iron sights..
- Thread starter Tetch
- Start date
WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THEY'RE PANDERING?!
They didn't cite it as a feature! The guys who are against it are publicizing it the most!
How can you honestly say the Devs are trying to get 'gaymers' (nice characterization by the way) to buy RO when, apparently, they don't speak on the subject of dolphin diving at all!
For the love of god, them not immediately saying they're going to fix a "bug" (which they haven't so far for most of the bugs they've fixed, some much more game-breaking than what we're all complaining about now) does not constitute an immediate and reactionary "RO IS PANDERING TO GAYMERS!!!!!" response.
You people are masters of the slippery slope fallacy.
They didn't cite it as a feature! The guys who are against it are publicizing it the most!
How can you honestly say the Devs are trying to get 'gaymers' (nice characterization by the way) to buy RO when, apparently, they don't speak on the subject of dolphin diving at all!
For the love of god, them not immediately saying they're going to fix a "bug" (which they haven't so far for most of the bugs they've fixed, some much more game-breaking than what we're all complaining about now) does not constitute an immediate and reactionary "RO IS PANDERING TO GAYMERS!!!!!" response.
You people are masters of the slippery slope fallacy.
For the terminally hard of thinking....
RO was never designed or intended for 'Gaymers', Dolphin diving is pure 'Gaymer' and RO is heading more and more into that territory!
If you don't know what i mean by 'Gaymer' see bunnyhopping, stopsound, pistol rolling or, in other words, kiddy bull****!
There is enough of this in almost every other FPS, we do NOT need it in RO!
RO is severely short on players and if the only way the Devs can think of getting more is to pander to spotty little oiks then i for one don't want to be around when the numbers swell!
And yes, this is quite a change, but of course now i have seen the writing on the wall
P.S I should probably calm down too but this has really wound me up!
well you should first have some respect for players of other games. I am not sure what is your frustration about games that are not oriented on so-called-realism. I can imagine that some CS players could think that you are an idiot who knows pretty little about it...
What is funny about all of this, is that people are pissed that the devs take the time to post 2 or 3 posts of stfu, and 'im typing this but wont tell you any real info' typ[e thread. When all they had to say was 'yeah its on the to-do list'. No deadline announced but still problem solved, community appeased, arguments over. However less arguments means less forum posts, less forum posts mean less forum activity, little or no forum activity means dead forums and dead game so now you know why not many forums lock and delete b*tch/flame threads (not just this forum btw).
The explanation for this is pretty obvious.
Yoshiro has been overthrown by EA. EA is pulling his strings, whispering in his ear "Shhhhh.....Shhhhh......" As soon as Yoshiro makes a run for it, Ubisoft just b1tchslaps him back into place.
Either that or they just don't want to comment yet. I think my explanation is better though.
Yoshiro has been overthrown by EA. EA is pulling his strings, whispering in his ear "Shhhhh.....Shhhhh......" As soon as Yoshiro makes a run for it, Ubisoft just b1tchslaps him back into place.
Either that or they just don't want to comment yet. I think my explanation is better though.
I bet I can crouch and be in IS in the same or even less time it takes you to fall to the ground and be in IS
You already have IS as you go around a corner, its called leaning.
Why spray? 'cause you stay on your feet and can keep moving as opposed to being static on the floor <---- much easier to hit.
If I see him just before he see's me I'm still gonna hip-spray him if he's close enough... there is no point in diving to prone, especially in this example... you're not making much sense. Instant kill? Cmon, it does not provide you with CANNOT FAIL accuracy... unless you are at point blank range, in which case, why dive in the first place?
There arent any situations in which you have to use it... dont feed me that. People are under the impression that its the be all/end all move but thats where it ends... they think its a move that offers advantages because they play against guys who arent prepared for it.
About the realism comment... I enjoy realistic weapons, ballistics, environments etc. but I dont run around pretending to be a real soldier. Some people in this community might do that... thats how they have fun with the game (to the point where something like the subject at hand ruins the game for you, thats your problem). I'm cool with that. The way that I have fun is through the challenge of the game. Playing against higher skilled opponents than I. Being on the team that has the odds stacked against them. I enjoy winning. I like being able to spur teamwork between a bunch of strangers, and through that meeting new people (if even in a non-personal seperated by hundreds of miles sort of way).
I apparently approach the game differently, and minor things like this dont cause me to carry on in every damn thread regardless of topic. When retail came out I was very disappointed in how much the bayo had changed from the mod. I felt the bayo was worthless, and needed to be returned to its former glory. I made a few posts stating my dislike of the new bayo system and left it at that. What I did in the meantime was to practice the hell out of using the bayo... now 9 times out of 10, unless the enemy has an SMG, I can get to within bayo range of you at will by dodging your shots, and then stab you. I suggest you practice being prepared for your diving buddies... practice so much to the point that they learn this move is actually something that will get them killed more often than not, and I'm sure you will see it fade away...
Take your perceived lemons and make lemonade.
I reckon you've never actually tried to use this yourself with an SMG. If you did you would realise its uses. Why should I dive to iron sight if the guy i'm going to kill hasn't quite noticed me yet? Becase I get a more more accurate weapon with no recoil. Why should I take a shot at someone and reveal my position when theres a good chance my shots will miss because of gun inaccuracy? Yes I could crouch and spray, but there are times when a full dive to iron sight is more useful. Bah I can't be arsed with this really (it seems stupid having to explain it) but here we go with the situations were it is most useful:
Beyond hipshot range - At this range with a smg I know my shots will miss more often than not when I hip burst at someone - so I should get iron sights up. Makes sense right? Now I could get iron sights up and crouch and have twice the recoil and twice the inaccuracy (as an example its not exact) OR in the same time its takes to do this I could dive and iron sight and have half the recoil and twice the accuracy. Now if I don't kill this guy I will die - theres no need to think about the next kill now so forget the time it takes to get up because it doesn't matter if I would have died if I didn't iron sight. Now hopefully you can see its an easy choice.
Going around corners - Now you mention I can lean while crouched - yup OR I could have iron sight up the instant my model is visible to the enemy while having vertually no recoil and great accuracy - again easy choice to make - first take a peek by leaning and then do the dive so that when you appear round the corner you land instantly with iron sights up.
Sprinting towards a capzone without fear of dying - just sprint and look in corners and either stop and hip shoot when you see someone and have to burst with less accuracy (but you can weeve side to side) or dive to iron sight and be a small target with great accuracy and recoil. If you surprise someone then its best to iron sight dive because you have great lateral movement (sprint speed) and great accuracy as you land.
Can't cover every eventuality - but it is immensely useful in the right situation and the game designers didn't intend people to do it - I should be penalised for running about like an idiot. I should have to control the recoil the way the designers intended it to be. I should have to be tactical about the way I play - not have this crap to fall back on when I make a mistake or when I don't feel like playing within the rules the designers made.
Hmm I don't agree with that - this forum is probably a great tool for selling the game - people researching RO will probably end up having a look on the forums to see what its like. Having threads like this that make the game look like everything they want to get away from with other games will only hurt their sales figures IMO. A quick update telling us whats happening (litterally one line - "we can't fix it yet we have other stuff to do", "its top of the list and will be done as soon as we can", "its not really something we want to work on yet, maybe 3-4 patches down the line", "we can't fix this because it would take too long") Anything would shut everyone up - we would still post here but not necessarily in a thread that makes RO look bad. Its too late now I think, but it would be a good idea in the future with other similar situations.
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Ok lets squash this right now:
Ironsighting while diving has been removed for the next patch.
So "Why didn't the devs just say something earlier"? Because we just figured out what we wanted to do within the dev team. And no, this thread had nothing to do with our decision, (the decision was made well before this thread even started).
This was not a "bug" but rather an unintended feature. We didn't add it to the game to "appease arcade kiddies" as some rather short-sighted forum members might suggest. We just never limited it. See what you have to understand, is that generally when the devs playtest we have a tendency to play tactically. So sometimes, we don't even realize that you can do silly things, because most of us don't even try to do silly unrealistic things as we play. Often, its not until the community really digs in that things like this are brought to light. And it took 4 or 5 months with tens of thousands of players for the RO community to even find this (as devious as some of them can be
).
Once we found it was possible, there was a lot of internal discussion about whether we wanted to remove it or not. Some of the devs (I won't shame them by naming names) had apparantly (and secretly) adopted this tactic along the line and liked using it. Others thought it really broke the realistic feel. After we voted, it came out somewhere around 10-1 to take it out. So that is what we are doing.
While multi-page rant threads on this forum might lead you to believe otherwise, just because a lot of poeple say they don't like a feature doesn't mean "everybody" doesn't like it. We have to be very careful of the changes we make. We've changed things before that "everybody" on the forums said should be changed, only to find out the majority of RO players liked things the way they were before. See, for every 1 person that posts they don't like something, there could be a 1000 players that DO like it, but never post. Because poeple generally don't drop by the forums to say "hey TW, just thought I would let you know I really love this feature". Rather, poeple post far more often about what they don't like.
And just for future reference, well thought out suggestions will get the devs attention a lot faster then "Demanding" we change things. Demands and overly negative rants will generally just be ignored. Respect the devs, and the devs will respect you and listen to what you have to say.
Ironsighting while diving has been removed for the next patch.
So "Why didn't the devs just say something earlier"? Because we just figured out what we wanted to do within the dev team. And no, this thread had nothing to do with our decision, (the decision was made well before this thread even started).
This was not a "bug" but rather an unintended feature. We didn't add it to the game to "appease arcade kiddies" as some rather short-sighted forum members might suggest. We just never limited it. See what you have to understand, is that generally when the devs playtest we have a tendency to play tactically. So sometimes, we don't even realize that you can do silly things, because most of us don't even try to do silly unrealistic things as we play. Often, its not until the community really digs in that things like this are brought to light. And it took 4 or 5 months with tens of thousands of players for the RO community to even find this (as devious as some of them can be
). Once we found it was possible, there was a lot of internal discussion about whether we wanted to remove it or not. Some of the devs (I won't shame them by naming names) had apparantly (and secretly) adopted this tactic along the line and liked using it. Others thought it really broke the realistic feel. After we voted, it came out somewhere around 10-1 to take it out. So that is what we are doing.
While multi-page rant threads on this forum might lead you to believe otherwise, just because a lot of poeple say they don't like a feature doesn't mean "everybody" doesn't like it. We have to be very careful of the changes we make. We've changed things before that "everybody" on the forums said should be changed, only to find out the majority of RO players liked things the way they were before. See, for every 1 person that posts they don't like something, there could be a 1000 players that DO like it, but never post. Because poeple generally don't drop by the forums to say "hey TW, just thought I would let you know I really love this feature". Rather, poeple post far more often about what they don't like.
And just for future reference, well thought out suggestions will get the devs attention a lot faster then "Demanding" we change things. Demands and overly negative rants will generally just be ignored. Respect the devs, and the devs will respect you and listen to what you have to say.
I hope it's not like Battlefield 2. There's a full 2 seconds after lying down when you can't move, you can't get up, you can't go aim, you can't fire. You completely lose control, you can't do ANYTHING.
Its nothing like BF2, you just can't raise your ironsights while diving like you could before.
While you do make a point, people dive to prone when they know they are screwed/caught with their pants down. They don't do it in every situation, most of the time there is a better choice then diving.
If they were to keep running to cover in situations where you find people diving (say they are out in the open or caught by surprise at a medium or close range setting), they'd be shot. If they were to stop and pull up their iron sights, they would be shot. Shooting from the hip in a situation where one would dive to iron sights would probably get you killed as well.