Disable knife/syringe/welder drops and drop all player weapons on death

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Undedd Jester

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 31, 2009
3,065
881
0
Sheffield, England
I find suggestions like this intersting for understanding the difference between the new and the old player base. Were this idea posted at a different time it would recieve a totally different reaction to what its getting now.

New KF gamer theory - The syringe, knife and welder are completely useless, why bother dropping them at all if they give no benefit to you or your team?

Old KF gamer theory - Leave it as is, if you died with the wrong weapon out, that is your penalty for dying. It forces players to make a decision between "Do I stand and fight and risk dying? Or do I try and run with my knife and risk losing my weapon? Or do I run with my weapon out?"

I'm not criticising anyone (anymore), it is just very interesting to see how at one time players were perfectly happy to be punished for their mistakes, and liked the fact that they were inhibited because it forced cooperation between members of the team.

Funny old world aint it.
 

OCAdam

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 13, 2011
288
49
0
I find suggestions like this intersting for understanding the difference between the new and the old player base. Were this idea posted at a different time it would recieve a totally different reaction to what its getting now.

New KF gamer theory - The syringe, knife and welder are completely useless, why bother dropping them at all if they give no benefit to you or your team?

Old KF gamer theory - Leave it as is, if you died with the wrong weapon out, that is your penalty for dying. It forces players to make a decision between "Do I stand and fight and risk dying? Or do I try and run with my knife and risk losing my weapon? Or do I run with my weapon out?"

I'm not criticising anyone (anymore), it is just very interesting to see how at one time players were perfectly happy to be punished for their mistakes, and liked the fact that they were inhibited because it forced cooperation between members of the team.

Funny old world aint it.

I'm not sure if my 5 pound pickup suggest goes for towards the new or old KF gamer theory here. I'll guess old though.
 

Rhenna

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 26, 2010
265
139
0
Alone in Penn's woods
I find suggestions like this intersting for understanding the difference between the new and the old player base. Were this idea posted at a different time it would recieve a totally different reaction to what its getting now.

New KF gamer theory - The syringe, knife and welder are completely useless, why bother dropping them at all if they give no benefit to you or your team?

Old KF gamer theory - Leave it as is, if you died with the wrong weapon out, that is your penalty for dying. It forces players to make a decision between "Do I stand and fight and risk dying? Or do I try and run with my knife and risk losing my weapon? Or do I run with my weapon out?"

I'm not criticising anyone (anymore), it is just very interesting to see how at one time players were perfectly happy to be punished for their mistakes, and liked the fact that they were inhibited because it forced cooperation between members of the team...

Something might need a bit of clarification between those "old/new" theory definitions. Not everyone is advocating that since dropping the syringe, welder and knife has always been "completely useless", then drop un-held weapons instead.

I, and I believe others, most certainly do disagree with the notion that a player should somehow spontaneously eject all of his or her weapons upon death. (Or, disconnection.) I simply don't think that displaying dropped syringes, welders and knives serves any purpose, other than indicating that player "X" died here, regardless of what era of Killing Floor we're discussing. Have I overlooked something?

While it might have only a miniscule impact on improving performance, and may not be worth the effort to re-code, I'm asking how would eliminating the depiction of these three dropped items negatively effect game-play, either now, or in the past? I believe what OCAdam is suggesting, is that if the game is going to the trouble, (so to speak), of displaying these items, then let their presence have some reason for being. Specifically, some small, positive impact for a player if they are recovered. It's just the kernel of an idea. If it received any traction, the rat's nest of discussing details would follow. "Should each recovered item occupy blocks of carrying capacity?", would be among the first darts to be thrown.

But, this *is* the "Ideas and Suggestions" forum, and there would be little point in having it if discussion of altering the game's mechanics, either past or present, are too often deemed blasphemous. Aside from balancing/bug-fixing, is there anyone that can state that there isn't some idea about the game they always wanted to implement? Personally, I think of this as the "What if?" forum, and haven't had, I believe, unrealistic expectations of anything within it becoming reality. Most people are just sittin' around, talking. (With that in mind, I *really would* rather have the additional 9mm ammo rather than the 2nd Beretta.)

If we're to discuss "Old and New KF gamer theory" eras, let's all recall in the "old" era, if you had the presence of mind to die with your weapon in-hand, you had at least some opportunity to recover it, even if it might be several waves later. So, that abandoned M32 or AA-12 lying, say, on the roof of KF-Hospital of Horrors, would be patiently awaiting your return, regardless of how long it might take. Now, if you check-out someplace that can't be reached in 60 seconds from the spawn location, or, time aside, from a tactical standpoint it would be foolish to even try, you can kiss your precious good-bye. (Which, incidentally, I'm fine with.) I'd offer that this "new" era dynamic is potentially more punishing than in years past.
 

Malhaven

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 11, 2010
219
0
0
35
IL, USA
If you're holding your welder, you should drop your welder.

If you're holding your syringe, you should drop your syringe.

HOWEVER, if you're amidst a quickselfheal when you die then you should drop the weapon you were using before the selfheal, because that is particularly annoying.

If you actually pull out your syringe to heal someone else and die, though, you should drop your syringe.

And, dropping all of your weapons? lolno

Best post in the thread.

I find suggestions like this intersting for understanding the difference between the new and the old player base. Were this idea posted at a different time it would recieve a totally different reaction to what its getting now.

New KF gamer theory - The syringe, knife and welder are completely useless, why bother dropping them at all if they give no benefit to you or your team?

Old KF gamer theory - Leave it as is, if you died with the wrong weapon out, that is your penalty for dying. It forces players to make a decision between "Do I stand and fight and risk dying? Or do I try and run with my knife and risk losing my weapon? Or do I run with my weapon out?"

I'm not criticising anyone (anymore), it is just very interesting to see how at one time players were perfectly happy to be punished for their mistakes, and liked the fact that they were inhibited because it forced cooperation between members of the team.

Funny old world aint it.

Second best post in the thread.
 
Last edited:

Thugdil

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 10, 2009
77
0
0
Germany
I, and I believe others, most certainly do disagree with the notion that a player should somehow spontaneously eject all of his or her weapons upon death. (Or, disconnection.)

I just thought off the odd chance that your client crashes again (which it does on a regular basis since the Hillbilly update, maybe even before that but I kind of took a KF vacation^^)... Now if that happens I might be more willing to agree to a random/alldrop option because you had no influence on this... then again it's an online game so it's everyones own risk... Just adding to the debate not sure if I would even support this idea sobered up and cured of my sleepiness tomorrow^^
 

PatPeter

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 12, 2009
90
27
0
I find suggestions like this intersting for understanding the difference between the new and the old player base. Were this idea posted at a different time it would recieve a totally different reaction to what its getting now.

New KF gamer theory - The syringe, knife and welder are completely useless, why bother dropping them at all if they give no benefit to you or your team?

Old KF gamer theory - Leave it as is, if you died with the wrong weapon out, that is your penalty for dying. It forces players to make a decision between "Do I stand and fight and risk dying? Or do I try and run with my knife and risk losing my weapon? Or do I run with my weapon out?"

I'm not criticising anyone (anymore), it is just very interesting to see how at one time players were perfectly happy to be punished for their mistakes, and liked the fact that they were inhibited because it forced cooperation between members of the team.

Funny old world aint it.

I've played Killing Floor since it first came out and haven't missed a single holiday event (though I did miss that one achievement... :mad:).

I realize that I should have made these two suggestions separate, especially as a programmer I should have known to keep a single idea in its own thread.

Let me put it this way:

  • Dropping the knife, syringe, and welder is no different than
  • Dropping nothing at all.
I would rather have the game drop nothing at all than litter the map with useless items. If you want them to be tombstones for a noob's death, then you can suggest that tombstones from Terraria are added.

As for dropping all weapons, think about it. Why do your weapons magically disappear when you die? If a certain zed took your weapons are carried them off, fine, that makes sense, but this issue has bothered me since I first bought the game.
 

nutterbutter

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 8, 2010
2,017
1,281
0
As for dropping all weapons, think about it. Why do your weapons magically disappear when you die? If a certain zed took your weapons are carried them off, fine, that makes sense, but this issue has bothered me since I first bought the game.

Think about this. Why do you magically live again after you die in a game?

I think dropping the one thing the player happens to be holding at the time is correct. That makes a player actually think about what he's doing. If a player is going to die, start shedding weapons.
 

ArcheKruz

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 2, 2013
484
1
0
I say leave it as it is. It's just something that newbies will have to learn when it comes to dying, because you will die eventually, be it through a botched FP speedkill, or a Scrake charging the team when nobody's prepared for it. Just like you should learn how to survive, you should also learn how to die.

If it's really a problem, then someone write a revised guide for beginners on how to die and bounce back into the game the next wave, because changing the game to make it easier is not the way to go. If you want to make those changes, then I highly recommend restricting it as an option that is only available in beginner mode.
 

HoopleDoople

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 28, 2012
172
0
0
I say leave it as it is. It's just something that newbies will have to learn when it comes to dying, because you will die eventually, be it through a botched FP speedkill, or a Scrake charging the team when nobody's prepared for it. Just like you should learn how to survive, you should also learn how to die.

If it's really a problem, then someone write a revised guide for beginners on how to die and bounce back into the game the next wave, because changing the game to make it easier is not the way to go. If you want to make those changes, then I highly recommend restricting it as an option that is only available in beginner mode.

Let me try my hand at a beginner's guide to dying:

Step 1) Equip best weapon
Step 2) Die
Step 3) Rage quit
Step 4) Profit - the team now has one less newbie to put up with and a free weapon to sell

XD
 

DMN666

Active member
Jun 14, 2012
2,570
12
38
Brooklyn, NY
If a player is going to die, start shedding weapons.
"Save my babies"
Throw all your weapons, dosh and die with your handgun out so someone can either pick these up and keep/give back or run your *** to your horde.

Let me try my hand at a beginner's guide to dying:
No you dumb n00bz it goes like this.
1)Something
2)SomethingAgain
3)SomethingElse
4)???
5)Profit

You forgot "???" :p
 

poosh

Grizzled Veteran
Jan 6, 2011
3,404
327
83
If you're holding your welder, you should drop your welder.

If you're holding your syringe, you should drop your syringe.

HOWEVER, if you're amidst a quickselfheal when you die then you should drop the weapon you were using before the selfheal, because that is particularly annoying.

If you actually pull out your syringe to heal someone else and die, though, you should drop your syringe.

And, dropping all of your weapons? lolno

So if you're healing teammate and die you'll get punished by loosing all your inventory, but if you're noob-running away to self-heal instead of fighting like a man you should drop your tier 3 weapon?!! F*** NO!

My opinion - leave as it is now. Any code changes = potential bugs. Dropped syringe, knife or welder will be remove at the start of the next wave anyway. But before it players can know how their teammate died - was he fighting, running away or self-healing?

If you're near to death, you can manually drop your guns. It is a good practice to drop your AA12 or SCAR, when they become empty.
 

DMN666

Active member
Jun 14, 2012
2,570
12
38
Brooklyn, NY
Can we just solve the problem by dropping either 1 of the 3 default weapons well result in pickup 10-50 dosh instead?
How about Dual wield Knife/syringe/welder, i can guarantee it wont be OP.
 

OCAdam

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 13, 2011
288
49
0
Why not if you run over a knife, syringe, or welder, it just gives you like 5 pounds instead?

Can we just solve the problem by dropping either 1 of the 3 default weapons well result in pickup 10-50 dosh instead?
How about Dual wield Knife/syringe/welder, i can guarantee it wont be OP.

Well that makes two of us. Though the amount I listed was just there to throw the idea out.