Developers may want to read this. Hell On Earth is too easy.

[tibits]

Have you seen how fast crawlers move on Suicidal+? They don't need much or anything XD they just run straight up to you at super speed and now you are either getting poked or can't run that way.

i was talking about when they are goign in for the attack. at the moment they're abit simple and goofy, they reach player then pause for a moment as if they've gone braindead then do simple attacks and lame little leap up to deal tiny damage.
crawler attack is just pathetic. just sits at your feet most of the time.

they should have some attack animations that make them hard to hit like stalker has with all her acrobatics - crawler's could be especially hard for zerkers to hit.

such as when crawler gets within 10 metres they go into charge mode and all predator-hunt-like sprinting very quickly, lowering their bodies and snaking then it attacks with agile animations and actually move during their attack to end up behind the player and have ai so that it tries to stay behind the player.

some spitting web attacks to blind or hinder players could work well when it goes in for the charge and i just read another post somewhere suggesting they cover doorways with web which i think is fantastic idea.

also them crawling onto player's backs and dealing damage could be cool and bash to get them off.

at the moment crawler is visually and gameplay wise one of the most pitiful and simplistic zeds. they could bring so much coolness to game and such great behaviour and animations but instead they're just like these goofy little braindead dorks.
and they need to have a rly good overhaul for when we get crawler queen boss

Clot grabbing is fine, ranged classes can kill every clot before it can get close to grab. Yes it is annoying that it automatically turns you but if they just made it grab without turning it would be even more threatening.

i meant maybe remove clot grabbing invulnerability from berserker. am talking about zerk.

 

[xmrmeow]

correction - Hell on earth is too easy WITH EXPLOITS

With smaller teams of experienced players it's still too difficult due to perk imbalances and other issues. I really can't wait for demo to get a buff and sharpshooter to come out. I miss my days in KF1 where my two friends and I could just play Sharpshooter + 2 other classes (besides medic) and win HOE every time in a row on custom maps or official ones. The official maps of this game have zeds coming from like 5 directions at almost every spot you could hold off and the only viable method that allows you to consistently win is having everyone stand behind a berserker with 2 medics healing them because medic's armor healing in broken and even FP's can't out damage it; which is boring as hell and so easy that I could stand there AFK and still win (and I have tried this, it works, AND it was on my friends server who has the spawn rates increased by a lot and the amount of zeds able to be on the map at one time to like 1000).

Things I think would make the game play just as fun as KF1 without breaking the game or making it be too easy:

Remove Zed teleporting on upper difficulties - They already move insanely fast, they don't need to teleport.

Make zeds only start running on HOE when they see you(I'm not sure if they don't already do this but If they don't, changing this would greatly improve the "everyone gets surrounded instantly and can only hold off in small corners" problem).

Remove slow on lower HP and slow on reloading/healing - Every time you go to heal with a syringe something hits you unless you have someone protecting you. It's dumb with the zed moving at hyper speed.

General Perk balances - Demo is too weak against what he needs to kill and hans, medic is stupidly necessary for team survival (buff syringe and nerf medic), nerf bonus knockdown chance and damage for zweihanders forward slash, nerf Hans' melee damage because it is 100% no fun when you autowin against him when a berserker just stands infront of him blocking, and autolose when they don't because his melee 2 shots you.

I think a lot of these issues are caused because the game was balanced without enough consideration on how fast zeds move on HOE and I still feel like with all these balance changes coming out, that the game is being balanced for one of the lower difficulties and not HOE. I could win every time in a row on HOE in KF1 with a 3 man team and in this game, it's just ridiculous and my 2 friends and I can only win with cheese strats that are boring and just involve standing there doing either nothing, or standing there clicking.

 

[Ninja Satsu]

Hell on earth should be near impossible to beat without perfect teamwork and individual skill.

Hell on earth should be something you sometimes beat with the perfect conditions. Not something you farm after you reach level cap.


In Gears of war 2, Beating Horde mode on insane took days, not even counting the weeks it took to get to level 50.

This is how Hell on earth should be. Not some fun little romp some people on teamspeak do in an hour.

 

[xmrmeow]

Hell on earth should be near impossible to beat without perfect teamwork and individual skill.

Hell on earth should be something you sometimes beat with the perfect conditions. Not something you farm after you reach level cap.


In Gears of war 2, Beating Horde mode on insane took days, not even counting the weeks it took to get to level 50.

This is how Hell on earth should be. Not some fun little romp some people on teamspeak do in an hour.

It should be winable consistantly with a team (regardless of the size above like 2 people) that is very skilled at the game and shooters in general. Difficulties like what you are describing really don't belong in the base game, only mods and mutators. The game is meant to be replayable over and over and the point of HOE is to keep even skilled players on their toes, but still have it be enjoyable. This is how HOE was on KF1 and it was fun and for players that were extremely skilled at the game and knew all the right things to do and could make all the shots could win consistently and have fun doing it, which is how this game should be (which is why I'm posting so much on the forums; so this game eventually becomes that way somewhere along the early access). Making it ridiculously hard and near unbeatable is not what I, or most other people that play the game on that difficulty want being in the game.

 

[Senario]

i was talking about when they are goign in for the attack. at the moment they're abit simple and goofy, they reach player then pause for a moment as if they've gone braindead then do simple attacks and lame little leap up to deal tiny damage.
crawler attack is just pathetic. just sits at your feet most of the time.

they should have some attack animations that make them hard to hit like stalker has with all her acrobatics - crawler's could be especially hard for zerkers to hit.

such as when crawler gets within 10 metres they go into charge mode and all predator-hunt-like sprinting very quickly, lowering their bodies and snaking then it attacks with agile animations and actually move during their attack to end up behind the player and have ai so that it tries to stay behind the player.

some spitting web attacks to blind or hinder players could work well when it goes in for the charge and i just read another post somewhere suggesting they cover doorways with web which i think is fantastic idea.

also them crawling onto player's backs and dealing damage could be cool and bash to get them off.

at the moment crawler is visually and gameplay wise one of the most pitiful and simplistic zeds. they could bring so much coolness to game and such great behaviour and animations but instead they're just like these goofy little braindead dorks.
and they need to have a rly good overhaul for when we get crawler queen boss


i meant maybe remove clot grabbing invulnerability from berserker. am talking about zerk.

If you remove clot grab immunity be prepared for zerk to get killed every time a big zed appears because as devestating as it is for a ranged class to get grabbed, it'll be worse on berserker because it'll happen all the time.

Crawlers aren't some type of special zed like a husk, they are meant to be a lower tier zed and not that difficult to deal with. And honestly making them do special things doesn't make them any harder to kill. I already kill sirens before they can appear/attack. I think they do enough damage and move fast enough on higher difficulties.

Also HoE shouldn't be impossible. There is a difference between enjoyable and frustrating. KF is a game where HoE is difficult but not impossible. Personally I find suicidal a great place in terms of difficulty but if people want to play a slightly more difficult mode (but not impossible) that is fine with me. You'll always have the biggest concentration of players in the center and not at the extremes of difficulty.

 

[Gallic_Taffer]

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=112030

You fix this, you make HoE hard again. Simple as that. Blaming zerk for the ease of tincanning may seem like the most direct conclusion, but I assure you it isn't.

 

[BEEEEEES]

ITT: people who have not played berserker HoE and have no f-ing clue what they are talking about. I'm pissed off and tired of seeing this in every stupid thread that pops up saying this or that is too easy. Load up the game, start solo offline HoE on berserker. Just stand there and see how quickly you still die with the 'immeasurably overpowered' 25% damage resistance. Even if you are level zero, just add ~25% to the seconds it took you to get shredded and it's still a pretty accurate figure for how quickly you die if you aren't making every swing count. Every single video of 'omg zerker overpowered now' is footage of a zerker up front doing their job and a medic in back doing theirs. I was playing an HoE recently sitting up front with another berserker with a medic some demos and a firebug mowing stuff down. A scrake and FP got on us at the same time and the demo fired a round right on us and my screen went white so I couldn't tell when to parry. I guess both the FP and Scrake hit me at the same time because I went from ~150 hp to dead in under a second because I wasn't blocking. Berserker is not 'crazy OP'! It just isn't! If you have a great team, there won't be a lot of deaths - and that has nothing at all to do with classes!

 

[Rattler]

No wonder you did it so easy - the zerk is OP as **** atm mate.

 

[ArrowVulcan]

Load up the game, start solo offline HoE on berserker. Just stand there and see how quickly you still die with the 'immeasurably overpowered' 25% damage resistance. Even if you are level zero, just add ~25% to the seconds it took you to get shredded and it's still a pretty accurate figure for how quickly you die if you aren't making every swing count.

Took me around 6 seconds to die and I didn't have any armor, block/parry or self-heal. I'm not sure what this afk strategy is supposed to prove thou.. if you aren't moving/attacking as Berserker then you deserve to die.

 

[KaZe_DaRKWIND]

This is a problem with the meta rather than the berserker. Its easier to just sit in a corner and so thats what people do unfortunately.

 

[Livskis]

Just beat a HoE game where we all hid behind the medizerk wall and at one point they tanked 2 scrakes and 2 fleshpounds at once. Can we buff the zeds to make snoozing behind the medizerk wall more challenging/entertaining? HoE is a snore. I literally sit there and click click click click without any thought or effort or skill.

Bloat vomit could leave a lingering puddle on the ground that deals damage and/or corrodes armor. Husk fireballs could ignite the ground. Zeds could knockback or do some other kind of position displacing attack. We don't need to nerf berserker or medic, just make it so I can't play the game well and text my frand or eat a sandwich or alt tab to talk to my stream at the same time on the supposed hardest difficulty in the game. Goddamn.

And if I ever even suggest that we do something a little different like not sit in a corner for the next hour, oh look they're voting to kick me off.

 

[sathenzar]

You guys think HoE is easy? the only two maps I find HoE "easy" are Biotics Lab and Evacuation Point. That is only because on Evacuation Point everyone uses that railing camp spot with 2 zerkers / 1-2 medics / rest w/e they want comp.

That doesn't mean HoE is easy, that means people are using a map exploit to beat the game. So the fix is simple...just fix the map exploit.

Biotics lab is a little harder, but still slightly easy because you can have 2 zerkers camp b-day room's doors, with 2 medics, and you are set as long as you have one other person that can help with the trash as the zerkers take down the heaver zeds.

The rest, I have no clue how you guys think that is easy. I think with a dedicated team every night playing about 50 HoE games now, Outpost taking up about 40 of those HoE games, we have beaten Outpost on Hell On Earth once. We only have one zerker most of the time, so that might change things for us if we got another one to regularly play.

 

[Escadin]

Just beat a HoE game where we all hid behind the medizerk wall and at one point they tanked 2 scrakes and 2 fleshpounds at once. Can we buff the zeds to make snoozing behind the medizerk wall more challenging/entertaining? HoE is a snore.

"I exploit the **** out of the game in order to avoid as much of the challenge as possible. The game is too easy."

:IS2::IS2:

 

[Livskis]

"I exploit the **** out of the game in order to avoid as much of the challenge as possible. The game is too easy."

:IS2::IS2:

Yes asking for more challenge means I'm trying to avoid challenge. Logic! I'm not gonna run off solo in an HoE game and get vote kicked nor do I want to find a new server after waiting 30 minutes in the lobby praying people join on me.

 

[Senario]

Just beat a HoE game where we all hid behind the medizerk wall and at one point they tanked 2 scrakes and 2 fleshpounds at once. Can we buff the zeds to make snoozing behind the medizerk wall more challenging/entertaining? HoE is a snore. I literally sit there and click click click click without any thought or effort or skill.

Bloat vomit could leave a lingering puddle on the ground that deals damage and/or corrodes armor. Husk fireballs could ignite the ground. Zeds could knockback or do some other kind of position displacing attack. We don't need to nerf berserker or medic, just make it so I can't play the game well and text my frand or eat a sandwich or alt tab to talk to my stream at the same time on the supposed hardest difficulty in the game. Goddamn.

And if I ever even suggest that we do something a little different like not sit in a corner for the next hour, oh look they're voting to kick me off.

Again, your problem is that camping for you is not a strategy or even an option to how the game should be played.

Tripwire wants you to kite but doesn't want to make it the only option as camping is something some people do like. Making the game only for kiting would be terrible because unlike Left 4 dead the goal is not a place you go to (meaning you'll have to move eventually if you want to finish the map). The goal is to kill zeds and camping is one way to do that.

 

[Livskis]

I'm not saying camping should be removed. It should just be more challenging because what we have now is a snoozefest. Sit behind zerker for an hour, click click click click click click. Oh we won? Didn't notice I was zoning out from the mind numbing gameplay.

Plus I have never joined a server where people were like:

"Hey guys let's kite them around."
"OK good plan."

It's more like:

"Hey guys let's not sit in a corner for an hour."
" THAT'S NOT HOW YOU PLAY KF2 NOOB **** **** ***"
Vote kicked.

 

[Senario]

I'm not saying camping should be removed. It should just be more challenging because what we have now is a snoozefest. Sit behind zerker for an hour, click click click click click click. Oh we won? Didn't notice I was zoning out from the mind numbing gameplay.

Plus I have never joined a server where people were like:

"Hey guys let's kite them around."
"OK good plan."

It's more like:

"Hey guys let's not sit in a corner for an hour."
" THAT'S NOT HOW YOU PLAY KF2 NOOB **** **** ***"
Vote kicked.

Sounds like you want them to kite but they are camping and you don't want to camp and make a very vocal opinion of it.

Berserker isn't the problem here as it is pretty much a scapegoat for other bigger problems like there being no real incentive to move around the map. Adding hard counters to camping doesn't work in a game like this as it would just be annoying and completely shuts out a viable strategy some people do like. Ever think it is the medic spamming darts 24/7 behind the zerker and the AI problems this patch has that is making it like that? Or did you just go straight to "oh it must be berserker because that is who I see in the front".

If they fixed the AI exploits and the current Medic armor bug it likely won't be like this at all. Even more so if they fix medic armor healing in general. There is no problem with good teamwork, it just sounds like you want to nerf beserker because people aren't playing the game in a way you want them to play the game.

 

[Livskis]

I don't think you understand me lol. I never said I wanted berserker to be nerfed. In fact I said the opposite. I specifically stated I don't want anything to be nerfed and rather I'd like for HoE gameplay to be actually difficult and entertaining because what it is right now is sitting behind the medizerk wall and mindlessly firing your weapon until Hans. I even suggested some ways to make camping HoE more challenging without nerfing any class because who wants nerfs honestly? And again, my suggestions don't make camping obsolete, just more challenging because, again, what it is right now is a joke and a snore.

 

[jlgill333]

I don't think you understand me lol. I never said I wanted berserker to be nerfed. In fact I said the opposite. I specifically stated I don't want anything to be nerfed and rather I'd like for HoE gameplay to be actually difficult and entertaining because what it is right now is sitting behind the medizerk wall and mindlessly firing your weapon until Hans. I even suggested some ways to make camping HoE more challenging without nerfing any class because who wants nerfs honestly? And again, my suggestions don't make camping obsolete, just more challenging because, again, what it is right now is a joke and a snore.

I agree with you. In Killing Floor 1 you could weld doors and camp and there were particular places on the maps where players could hold their position, without having to move much. In Killing Floor 2, Zed's can break through your lines and you're forced to move and adapt to the situation. This is how the game should be.

If you're standing in a corner, it's predictable and easy. In the later rounds Zed's may break through, but for the most part it's pretty comfortable. You could go away and come back and it wouldn't matter very much. It's probably not necessary to buff or nerf perks (although Demolitions does need a buff).

They need to fix these map exploits. HOE should reward skilled players and excellent team coordination. If people want the play this way, they can, but they shouldn't be allowed to sit back the entire match without being challenged. They need to deal with this soon, before more perks are released. It's ruining the game and it's not fair to the more skilled players who have no choice but to play this way.