Deployable Assets

[Ghost_thing]

I have an idea which would encourage players to use support. A deployable barrier (e.g. sandbag purchased from trader) which would increase a door weld health above 100%.
A deployable machinegun (player operated)would also be interesting (purchased from trader) so a more powerful than average weapon can be deployed at a chokepoint.

 

[Dead :(]

Sandbags: I haven't had any problems with doors really and I haven't heard other people gripe about them either. Doesn't seem necessary to me.

Deployable weapon: This idea has some potential. I don't think everyone in the group should be able to pick one of these up, everyone having a 50 cal machine or something similar would just make the game to easy. Perhaps the gun could be so heavy that only support can carry it, limiting the number of machine guns a group could buy. But it is not really a support weapon- I think it would be better suited for a commando. So the commando would have to carry the support weapon while he holds the big gun for the commando. Which could work but it would be kinda strange. Did you have any ideas about how you could add something like this while still keeping things balanced?

 

[masteriamamind]

I have an idea which would encourage players to use support. A deployable barrier (e.g. sandbag purchased from trader) which would increase a door weld health above 100%.
A deployable machinegun (player operated)would also be interesting (purchased from trader) so a more powerful than average weapon can be deployed at a chokepoint.

Good suggestions, yet redundant. The point of KF is to have great team work. I support can hold down a door all by themselves. If it gets hairy, you open the door AA12 the freaks to hell then re-weld. More powerful machine gun? The commando is a walking weeny wacker. No need to make them stationary. Need more power? Ask a Firebug to help you mop up. Trust me nothing outside of a FP is getting past that dou! Plus demo's already have pipe bombs to deploy. Once again these are great suggestions but really don't add to the current team dynamic. If everyone is doing there jobs and paying attention choke points become impenetrable. I feel that KF makes YOU the best piece of deployable equipment. Changing between waves as the team needs change.

 

[Sammers]

I have an idea which would encourage players to use support.

I'm encouraged to use support already, by the fact that they can gibletise EVERYTHING with their epic SHOTGUN POWAAAAAAAAH

 

[timur]

A turret has been made, actually, by the modding community. But is it just me, or is the accuracy so bad on that thing that I feel like my usual guns could do so much better?

 

[Dead :(]

I assume we are probably talking about a 50 cal machine gun here.
So taking the damage from the 50 cal pistol, it would deal 95-115 damage average 105 per hit. The other commando weapons have a fire rate of about 0.1 sooo dps wise 1050 dps before you add in perks and subtract reload time. That is 200 more than the SCAR, and it is second only the M32 which deals 1061. Reload time subtracts quite a bit of dps. Of course I don't know jack about guns so someone else could adjust these numbers to match a real life weapon- but the point is that it could be a feasible weapon.

So what could be the disadvantages to using this gun? Well obviously it is going to cost a ton, over 4k I'm guessing. It is going to weigh quite a bit as well, so you won't be able to use a backup weapon. You won't be able to move with it and fire. Another disadvantage could be that the gun itself has health, and if broken it would be unusable for the remainder of the wave. So the gun could have a number of disadvantages to balance out its huge firepower.

A deployable machine gun could work but its not gonna be everyone's cup of tea. Obviously it is going to play different than the other commando weapons. But it could work and be fun to play.

 

[CandleJack]

I'd say a 12.7 x 99mm NATO firing mounted machine gun (the Browning M2HB comes to mind) would indeed be difficult to balance. You'd need really, really, high damage to make it realistic in the least; almost as much as the Xbow. This would have to be able to overheat, as in the .50BMG machine gun on the chopper in the Vehicle Mod. Though i'd like to say have a modified welding/healing meter to fill the temperature-counting meter.

I'd like to suggest these numbers in relation to balance: 600 rounds of 12.7 x 99mm NATO (.50BMG), with 50 rounds at a time. You must remain mounted to fire, and it takes about 2-3 seconds to mount/dismount the turret. In relation to the Xbow, it has 9/10 of the Xbow's damage; and costs 4000 unperked and 2500-3000 perked. 3000 for Support and 2500 for Commando. The fire rate wouldn't be faster than an AK47's, so FPs and Scrakes still post a threat to players, but not much of one if you know what you're doing; just like with everything else in KF.

This was the contribution of your resident gun nut

 

[Dead :(]

I'd say a 12.7 x 99mm NATO firing mounted machine gun (the Browning M2HB comes to mind) would indeed be difficult to balance. You'd need really, really, high damage to make it realistic in the least; almost as much as the Xbow. This would have to be able to overheat, as in the .50BMG machine gun on the chopper in the Vehicle Mod. Though i'd like to say have a modified welding/healing meter to fill the temperature-counting meter.

I'd like to suggest these numbers in relation to balance: 600 rounds of 12.7 x 99mm NATO (.50BMG), with 50 rounds at a time. You must remain mounted to fire, and it takes about 2-3 seconds to mount/dismount the turret. In relation to the Xbow, it has 9/10 of the Xbow's damage; and costs 4000 unperked and 2500-3000 perked. 3000 for Support and 2500 for Commando. The fire rate wouldn't be faster than an AK47's, so FPs and Scrakes still post a threat to players, but not much of one if you know what you're doing; just like with everything else in KF.

This was the contribution of your resident gun nut

Thanks for the info CandleJack. So a realistic version of the M2HB would have a fire rate of about 0.086 (700 rounds per minute), dealing 270 damage a shot and doing 3139 damage a second (unperked). That is waaay more damage than anything else. If it had a clip of 50 rounds, it would burn through it in just 4.3 seconds and deal 13,500 damage, enough to kill a two-player patriarch on suicidal difficulty. So the damage is going to be very tough to balance, and it probably shouldn't receive any perk damage bonuses.

Weight-wise it is going to be a problem having such a gun in the game too. The empty weight of the M2 according to gunwiki is 38kgs alone and 58kgs empty with a tripod - more than double what a level 6 support can carry. Supposedly the lightweight version of the gun still weighs 27kgs and with the tripod that would be 47kgs. So there would have to be an exception to the weight rule for this gun or something, and your movement speed would have to be very slow. You would be forced to set up relatively close to the shopkeeper you bought it from. It would be very hard to fill up the gun again if you had to carry the gun on you to fill it up like everything else- so the use of the weapon would be limited to a wave or two.

A 50 cal deployable machine gun this could be a weapon used for the last wave and the patriarch. But keeping it's weight and damage realistic is going to be a problem, especially for small groups with high level players.

 

[CandleJack]

Thanks for the info CandleJack. So a realistic version of the M2HB would have a fire rate of about 0.086 (700 rounds per minute), dealing 270 damage a shot and doing 3139 damage a second (unperked). That is waaay more damage than anything else. If it had a clip of 50 rounds, it would burn through it in just 4.3 seconds and deal 13,500 damage, enough to kill a two-player patriarch on suicidal difficulty. So the damage is going to be very tough to balance, and it probably shouldn't receive any perk damage bonuses.

Weight-wise it is going to be a problem having such a gun in the game too. The empty weight of the M2 according to gunwiki is 38kgs alone and 58kgs empty with a tripod - more than double what a level 6 support can carry. Supposedly the lightweight version of the gun still weighs 27kgs and with the tripod that would be 47kgs. So there would have to be an exception to the weight rule for this gun or something, and your movement speed would have to be very slow. You would be forced to set up relatively close to the shopkeeper you bought it from. It would be very hard to fill up the gun again if you had to carry the gun on you to fill it up like everything else- so the use of the weapon would be limited to a wave or two.

A 50 cal deployable machine gun this could be a weapon used for the last wave and the patriarch. But keeping it's weight and damage realistic is going to be a problem, especially for small groups with high level players.

Keeping in mind that the Scrake has the highest health with the most players, and that FPs get 50% damage resistance, we could tone the damage a bit, as TWI nerfed both the Xbow and M14/SCAR. still higher than the 7.62 NATO battle rifles, but lesser than the Xbow.

These are the 2 parameters required.

Keeping in mind, the LAW's RL cousins don't weigh that much, weight can be fiddled with a bit to fit it into Support's weight capacity. I'd say make it weigh as much as it would take for a L0-1 Support to carry. Or make it increase in weight to always take up all of a Support's maximum capacity.

I support the lack of discounts now Making it a weapon that everyone needs to pool money for is a good idea, so only one, maybe two, make it into the game.

And yeah, extra slow walking speed is a yes from me

You could use this unknown tactic to put the M2HB (or The Fifty, shall we say?) at the optimum point for playing. I'm sure this tactic hasn't been heard of, it's called teamwork.

I've read that the M2HB has a 450-575rpm so i guess i was wrong, though the AK47 has a 600rpm RoF, so i wasn't that wrong.

 

[Deafmute]

I'd say a 12.7 x 99mm NATO firing mounted machine gun (the Browning M2HB comes to mind) would indeed be difficult to balance. You'd need really, really, high damage to make it realistic in the least; almost as much as the Xbow. This would have to be able to overheat, as in the .50BMG machine gun on the chopper in the Vehicle Mod. Though i'd like to say have a modified welding/healing meter to fill the temperature-counting meter.

I'd like to suggest these numbers in relation to balance: 600 rounds of 12.7 x 99mm NATO (.50BMG), with 50 rounds at a time. You must remain mounted to fire, and it takes about 2-3 seconds to mount/dismount the turret. In relation to the Xbow, it has 9/10 of the Xbow's damage; and costs 4000 unperked and 2500-3000 perked. 3000 for Support and 2500 for Commando. The fire rate wouldn't be faster than an AK47's, so FPs and Scrakes still post a threat to players, but not much of one if you know what you're doing; just like with everything else in KF.

This was the contribution of your resident gun nut

Do you work for the Army?

 

[slavek]

(Don't mess with me, My knowledge alone will kill you before I pull out my guns) Lots of gun talk

When zombies attack in real life, we all know who we want to side with . . . that guy called candl . . .

 

[CandleJack]

Do you work for the Army?

No i don't. The average soldier doesn't know as much as what i would; amassing firearm knowledge is a hobby of mine.

I actually don't own guns, but thankfully the TWI forums aren't /k/ so i'm safe.

I just like knowing stuff

 

[timur]

I just like throwing stuff

I've heard that throwing your guns at them is an effective strategy....

CANDLEJACK DECREES IT, IT MUST BE TRUE!

 

[CandleJack]

I've heard that throwing your guns at them is an effective strategy....

CANDLEJACK DECREES IT, IT MUST BE TRUE!

Actually, throwing weapons doesn't work.

Throwing money, however...