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DEMO's Turn For Upgrade

Dafe

Grizzled Veteran
Mar 22, 2012
422
4
DEMO needs attention!


1. Add fragmental pieces to grenades that bounce everywhere after it explodes like when you use Vlad The Impaler (bouncing nails), except 2X the fragments.

2. When DEMO becomes deceased, a 3 second timer will trigger and after 3 seconds the dead DEMO's body explodes with the power of a single pipe bomb.

3. Weight capacity should go up 5% per level up, but not ammo capacity.

4. Sticky grenade in the shape of a boomerang blade, or "Boomerang Blade Grenade" or "BBG". These can be picked up if thrown and it does not hit an enemy. If it hits an enemy it will stick to them and then you will have to press the alt-fire button to detonate the bomb.

5. Slight increase to DEMO's prices. Enough to level out the over abundance of ammo, so you have to really choose your shots rather than spray and pray.
 
1. I don't understand.

2. Demo dies from husk shot while running from a fleshpound or scrake -> surprise raged sc/fp for everyone! Yay!

3. So you could carry M32 and LAW? Lol, sounds so balanced!

4. What is that I don't even...

5. Just play harded difficulty. You'll feel the lack of dosh soon enough.
 
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I wouldn't mind the demo being given a smaller-explosive weapon, and the prices for ammo rising slightly. I play a lot of games with demos with M79 and M32 who will get through their entire grenade supply easily completely obscuring anyone else's vision.

Rest of the ideas are a bit silly.
 
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I wouldn't mind the demo being given a smaller-explosive weapon, and the prices for ammo rising slightly. I play a lot of games with demos with M79 and M32 who will get through their entire grenade supply easily completely obscuring anyone else's vision.

Rest of the ideas are a bit silly.

I second this thought. Maybe some sort of shrapnel launcher?
 
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I think the M4/203 needs work done on it in both its grenades and bullets and price, and that would be a lovely change to the demo.
I honestly think it really just needs to reflect demo better. I would love to see it have the same projectile and slight push back as the PP-19 Bizon, but keep its current damage amounts for its primary fire. I think the secondary fire on it and price of bullets | grenades for it is fine, just the actual cost of the weapon is what is whack as is the lack of perk benefit for the primary fire.
 
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The M4/M203 needs definitely some change, right now i hate it.
Right now, M32, M79, Mk23 and Pipes are my loadout.

M32 should be changed to 8kg and a slower rate of fire with more recoil.

A nice addition could be a 20mm grenade launcher like the PAW-20 or XM25. Detachable Magazines with ~6 Rounds, damage around half the amount of the 40mm grenades (maybe more) and a very small aoe (1m radius max). Weight should be 8kg (7 if the M32 is bumped to 8) so you cannot carry both.

PAW-20
paw20-1.jpg
 
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1. I don't understand.

2. Demo dies from husk shot while running from a fleshpound or scrake -> surprise raged sc/fp for everyone! Yay!

3. So you could carry M32 and LAW? Lol, sounds so balanced!

4. What is that I don't even...

5. Just play harded difficulty. You'll feel the lack of dosh soon enough.



1. When you use Vlad the Impaler, sometimes not every nail penetrates an enemy and these nails eventually hit a solid surface and when this happens they tend to bounce and sometimes when they bounce, they end up hitting an enemy, doing damage to the enemy. I'm suggesting that DEMO's hand grenades do this after explosion, kinda like a "report" from a bottle rocket.

2. Very vague understanding if you ask me. Yes there is a possibility of this happening, but if you are playing with an experienced team it wouldn't be as much of a problem, and if you are not experienced, chances you are playing a lower difficulty and the pipe will eliminate anything or almost anything in your path.

3. Yes, the "perks" of leveling up. Although I intended this to match up with #5 as to having to spend more on ammo would balance the fact you can have 2 awesome DEMO weapons.

4. This could also be like a Shurikan with a grenade, but pretty much something that the DEMO could throw, have it stick to, and then detonate. Capacity wise, I would say max at 8-10 of these.

5. I've been playing on HOE for almost a solid year now. I'm never ever in a tight bind when it comes to dosh, no matter what perk I'm playing. This includes not glitching, but also having the skill to heal other players (which pays you dosh) while in combat.

Good to see everyone brainstorming here. Obviously DEMO needs a few minor and major tweaks.
 
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Personally, I believe that Demolitions is the most difficult perk to advance. (And, I'm discounting the time spent when my on-again, off-again web access is off. Again.) This belief is based on the fact that, other than grenades, when playing at Level 4 or less, it might not be until Wave 4 or 5 that you can actually afford to purchase some perked weaponry. Of course, to earn any cash to do that, you either must spend some of your precious treasury on a non-perked weapon, or be lucky enough to come upon a spawned weapon. Item spawns at Hard difficulty and above are, of course, rather sparse.

Furthermore, when finally reaching Level 5, while every other perk, save the Medic, is rewarded with a weapon they could conceivably use for the balance of the game, the Demo receives but a single pipe-bomb. Question: Short of selling it for cash, how much mileage can a Demo garner from a single pipe-bomb in the early stages of a match, (especially on a wide-open/outdoor map), versus what, for example, a Commando can receive with a Bullpup, a Sharpshooter with a LAR, or a Firebug with a flamethrower? Those perks are instant, (and ongoing), killing-machines.

I've long been on-record how utterly ridiculous it is on the manner the specimens will blindly ignore every act of violence directed their way, including pipe-bombs, but will scurry away from a thrown grenade. Some players have apparently perfected this anomaly in zed behavior into an art of skillfully misdirecting the specimens, albeit momentarily. Well, that is simply wonderful, and I sincerely applaud their skill. However, this girl would rather use grenades to simply vaporize them, instead.

So, I'd say, at least for the Demo, this particular specimen characteristic needs to go "bye-bye." At all Demo perk levels. And, at Level 3, the Demo should spawn with five grenades. (This would be akin to the 'Bug's grenades becoming incendiary at that level.) At level 5, keep the freakin' pipe-bomb. Instead, I want Aze's Great Big Pouch of Grenades bonus. Or, the M79.

The M4/203's perked price is simply too high. I don't have a particular number in mind, but it needs to come down, and, more than just a little. I can live with the weapon's weight, and the wonky reloading characteristic of it's grenade launcher, but allow me to purchase more grenades; at least 20 or so. And, don't make them too costly.

What is the deal with the ridiculous recoil and resulting muzzle-climb on this thing? The M203 adds at least a kilogram or more of weight forward of the weapon's CG, so why is it acting like a wannabe anti-aircraft weapon? Is this supposed to be a built-in deterrent to the Demo infringing on other perk's responsibilities? If so, that is just plain lame. Is there anyone really afraid that the Demo is going to "run the table" in 6-player Hard or above, with 300 rounds? Really? Really?

I view the concept of the M4/203 as a combined offensive/defensive weapons system. Currently, the "M4" part of that system is partially broken. Either tame the recoil some, or go to a 3-round burst. (Which is what the M4 is supposed to have to begin with.)

We've had the introduction of what I would describe as a number of "fantasy" weapons into the game. But, I'm not too fond of just making stuff up out of thin air. I was fine with the Husk launcher being made available; after all, if they had it, why couldn't we? (As an aside, and, quite off-topic, consider the opposite. What would happen if a Husk took a liking to using a Z.E.D. against the survivors?) Some of the suggestions within this thread are a bit too "fantastic" for me to be enthusiastic about them.

The only real-life weapons I can think of that would bridge the gap between the hand-grenade and the M79 for the Demo would be the Knights Armament pistol-grip jammie for the M203, (think: mini-M79), or, a shotgun loaded with the British developed FRAG-12 ammunition. Both have been suggested before, but were never too well received. The KAC/M203 combo would presumably save a bit of weight, and perhaps be less costly, but would otherwise be quite similar to the M79. Let me find a link...

http://www.knightarmco.com/portfoli...3-accessories&features=standalone-steel-stock[url]http://www.knightarmco.com/portfolio/standalone-steel-stock/?cate_cm=military&term=m203-accessories&features=standalone-steel-stock[/URL]

(Note that Knights doesn't produce the launcher, just the stock.)

The FRAG-12 concept would approximate the Trenchgun/Dragon's Breath combo for the Firebug, a now-established precedent. We wouldn't need a new shotgun, (the Trader menu is a mess as it is), just 12 gauge ammunition with an on-perk, mild explosive characteristic.
 
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DEMO needs attention!


1. Add fragmental pieces to grenades that bounce everywhere after it explodes like when you use Vlad The Impaler (bouncing nails), except 2X the fragments.

2. When DEMO becomes deceased, a 3 second timer will trigger and after 3 seconds the dead DEMO's body explodes with the power of a single pipe bomb.

3. Weight capacity should go up 5% per level up, but not ammo capacity.

4. Sticky grenade in the shape of a boomerang blade, or "Boomerang Blade Grenade" or "BBG". These can be picked up if thrown and it does not hit an enemy. If it hits an enemy it will stick to them and then you will have to press the alt-fire button to detonate the bomb.

5. Slight increase to DEMO's prices. Enough to level out the over abundance of ammo, so you have to really choose your shots rather than spray and pray.

I agreed that the Demo needs a little work, but i don't agreed with all your suggestions though. To be more specific:

1. Ah, like Cluster Grenades, only that the clusters are bouncy? Well, that is a neat idea, but like others have mentioned: This would fit better for the Support Specialist as some form of a Nail Grenade

2. That would actually be fun, imo. It's something that can be a nice little oomph after death, or something that also can backfire (rage Scrakes or Fleshpounds accidentally)

3. Short answer: No. Long answer: NOOOOO! That is something that should stay unique for the Support Specialist (that also needs a revisit btw >_>) I understand your suggestion as it relates to point 5, but i just simply disagreed with it.

4. I'd rather have some form of grenade launcher (of whatever sort) that shoots sticky bombs/grenades on surfaces that can either be detonated manually or detonates by itself after 10 seconds or so. The concept of the explosive function i like, just not the weapontype you have described. Besides, doesn't this weapon contradict your point 5 a little? Need to carefully place your shots contra retreivable ammo upon a miss i mean?

5. As said on point 3, no point in doing this if the weight capacity stays as it is for Demolitions.


To relate a little to the other recently posted Demolitions post about what new weapons could be added, here's a VERY quick list of new weapons (with new functionalities) that imo could be neat for the Demo:

A) Neopup PAW-20 has already been mentioned. Mediumstrong grenades, 7 grenades per mag. Primary fire has regular grenades that explode on impact, while secondary fire has grenades that explode after a couple of seconds (similar to handgrenades). Could be cool to have timed grenades to bounce around a little, other than your regular handgrenades.

B) Sticky Bomb Launcher - A grenade launcher similar to yet different from, your BBG-idea. Primary fire launches an explosive device that sticks to surfaces/enemies (that deals impact damage upon contact?). Secondary fire detonates all unexploded explosives. Each explosive also detonates after 10 seconds or so (so you can't stack too many at one spot and instakill a Fleshpound or the Patriarch or something)

C) Explosive Automatic Gun (EAG) - Any form of automatic weapon that has explosive bullets. The russianmade PP19 Bizon has this, and the weapon is A LOT of fun to use! I think a fitting weapon for this would be some form of smallscale Lewis Gun (a british Machine Gun):
300px-Lewis_Gun.jpg

Now that's a unique-lookingweapon imo! :)

D) Upgrading the M4+M203 into something USEFUL: Give it less recoil, basecost of only 2000, get more grenades baseline (like 15?), get more grenades when used as Demolitions, possibly a manual reload of the grenade launcher (then press secondary fire again to reload it)

X) Something else i was thinking of is the ammobonus for Demolitions. Currently there are 2 bonuses: +6 pipebombs and +110% handgrenades and LAW rockets. That means +6 handgrenades and +12 rockets in absolute values. Why not just change the ammobonus of Demolitions to this: +6 to all explosive ammo? That way, this bonus could also be granted to ALL Demoweapons:
Handgrenades gets 5 > 11 handgrenades (just like now)
Pipebombs gets 2 > 8 bombs (just like now)
M32 gets 36 > 42 grenades
M79 gets 24 > 30 grenades
M4+M203 gets 15-ish > 21-ish grenades
LAW (Upgraded to 18 base rockets, up from 10) gets 18 > 24 rockets

It just scales the perk better, and looks neater numerically too. Thoughts on this one?
 
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I think a fitting weapon for this would be some form of smallscale Lewis Gun (a british Machine Gun):
300px-Lewis_Gun.jpg

Now that's a unique-lookingweapon imo! :)

I like the way you think.

A micro-splosion "stubber" type gun would be really interesting.

Or if the Bren has too much controversy as a commando weapon, the Bren could fill that role. Or a Boyes anti-tank Roflrifle.
 
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This but I think it just needs to change the main buying price overall. It's a low tier weapon, not a tier 3 weapon. It should be a slightly above M79 to be honest. I may try this out for my custom server.

This describes my feelings regarding the M4-203 perfectly, why would someone buy this very overpriced, somewhat crappy, half-and-half sidegrade to the slightly cheaper LAW!! Or M92 is beyond me.
 
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This describes my feelings regarding the M4-203 perfectly, why would someone buy this very overpriced, somewhat crappy, half-and-half sidegrade to the slightly cheaper LAW!! Or M92 is beyond me.
The major problem is is that the M4 is litrally the exact same as the M79. The grenade you shoot out IS the M79 grenade. You're paying
 
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The problem with M4 is that it sucks compared to M79+pistol. It is tier 4 (I guess), it SHOULD be better than m79. I suggest increasing reload speed and ammo reserves.

@Rhenna: Yeah, totally agree about the made-up weapons. They just don't fit the game so well. Aaand, as for specimen not dodging demo's nades... That's a pretty great idea. That way demo could be the one class that has actually very useful grenades, and gain some advantage to support, who is exactly the same with nades now.

@Aze: Really like about A-C. Especially Neopup's idea. Demo is missing the quick and less powerful alternative for killing weaker stuff (like crawlers) that doesn't waste the precious m32 grenades or reload for half a minute.
 
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For a while, I was debating explosive bullets for a demo weapon as a halfway house between grenades and guns, but I could never work out how they'd work. Aside from working better against fleshpounds (weak against explosives), tbh, you may as well just have a stronger gun...?

And realistically speaking, unless it's something like a W40K bolter, where the rounds are the size of a child's fist, and will shred a body and anyone nearby, the explosive round would only do superficial or psychological damage to enemies hit by the splash (both of which are useless against zeds).
 
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For a while, I was debating explosive bullets for a demo weapon as a halfway house between grenades and guns, but I could never work out how they'd work. Aside from working better against fleshpounds (weak against explosives), tbh, you may as well just have a stronger gun...?

And realistically speaking, unless it's something like a W40K bolter, where the rounds are the size of a child's fist, and will shred a body and anyone nearby, the explosive round would only do superficial or psychological damage to enemies hit by the splash (both of which are useless against zeds).

Or it would be dubbed "OP", aaaahhhhh..good old' Battlefield 3 and frag round shotguns, the hate ever lives on..
 
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