In most cases, I would say defensive smoke is just helping the attackers more and tells you that your squad leader is not all he should be.
Defensive smoke ..your thoughts
- Thread starter TheRealGunther
- Start date
Nonsense! In that case, it defeats the purpose of your support ppl being able to provide cover for your advancing troops. They're blinded by ill-placed smoke.
Nine out of ten times.... smoke hinders your advance because its used improperly.
desiQ said:
That's the ticket.
Really depends on a lot of factors, this is a pretty complex issue. Smoking just in-front of the enemies cover is actually quite a good idea, it forces them to come out into the open to attack you when they have no idea of your positions. Smoking your own team to protect them from fire is only a good idea if you happen to have lots of assault troops.
Smoke is nigh essential if you want to hold the roofs of the A building on Grain Elevator since Allied reinforcements will get shot from the right flank pretty often. Otherwise I just use smoke as a commander defensively: making it so the enemy can't shoot my guys as they move into defensive positions or protecting a counterattack.
You are the one talking nonsense I am afraid. I can agree that often inexperienced SLs throws smoke wrongly, in front of the positions of their own team, or plain randomly. But it does not include the smoking of the enemy positions. In fact this is the singlemost effective tactic in RO2 as well as RO2. Your theory is just that, a theory that has little to no useful purpose in practice.
On Grain Elevator most often than not it is the smoking of the passage between Gate House and Conveyor Tower that allows the axis to take the latter objective, because they can move unseen by the mgs and snipers placed in the Grain elevator hindering any advance.
In Spartanovka, smoke the church on the side pointing out towards the axis spawn and the team can move up to the churchwall and eventually inside it. Same goes with Town Hall. Smoke around the flanks and in front of the ground floor is again the only thing that allows the axis entry in the objective without being picked off by flanking snipers and mgs as well as the enemy inside the building.
RO2 simply does not work in a way where the point of smoking "behind enemy lines" would make much sense. The point is to cap the objective, and you do this by rushing it, and preventing the enemy from shooting at you while you do this.
The only instance where I think the "behind enemy lines" tactic makes sense is in Apartments, where as allied, coming from basement in Propaganda House, it is a good idea to move out into the open ground to the right and throw smoke down the alley towards axis spawn before going up the outer stairs and surprising the axis inside the upper floors. This hinders the axis from shooting from the alley while you are moving around in the outside galleries, and it can be used when having taken Propaganda House you can surprise the axis coming from the alley and not having a clear view of what is happening at the objective. Otherwise it is mainly the best working tactic to throw smoke as close as possible to the enemy position that has free view on the advancing teammates. If it is close enough, they wont see the advancing enemy until they are right in front of them or have even flanked them in order to stab them in the back.
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Defensive smoke is ridiculously bad.
1. It hinders the vision of the defenders
2. It allows the attackers to camp out the capzone because defenders don't know where to shoot
3. When defenders shoot, the muzzleflash reveals his/her location
4. It basically provides the attacking Squad Leader extra smoke nades to work with.
Smoke should go to where the enemy is coming from.
Or if you're attacking, the path where troops have to advance towards, preferrably in front of the defenders.
1. It hinders the vision of the defenders
2. It allows the attackers to camp out the capzone because defenders don't know where to shoot
3. When defenders shoot, the muzzleflash reveals his/her location
4. It basically provides the attacking Squad Leader extra smoke nades to work with.
Smoke should go to where the enemy is coming from.
Or if you're attacking, the path where troops have to advance towards, preferrably in front of the defenders.
Lots of crossed wires and agreement posing as disagreement in here! 
One thing to remember - any use of smoke while you're defending IS defensive smoke, regardless of where you put it. I see people saying "lol defensive smoke is retarded", this is definitely not the case.
If you're defending A and the enemy is coming from B, smoking location B so the enemy has to emerge from smoke IS defensive smoke. It does not become offensive simply because you're throwing it at the enemy instead of yourself - you are using that smoke in a defensive position, and by smoking the enemy you are causing them to gamble their lives - this is very defensive.
As mentioned, the ideal (where possible) is probably to smoke out support troops/emplacements, forcing the front lines to advance without support. Failing that, smoking the front lines (of the enemy!) forces them to either gamble by emerging from smoke into the unknown, or to take a completely different route which could also compromise their attack.
Smoking an area occupied by your troops whether defending or attacking, is IMO bad and not tactically advantageous. You should either be moving through the smoke to your objective - in which case your smoke should be on or close to the objective - or you're covering an area to force your enemy through the smoke, or through alternative routes (preferably covered by heavy fire from other angles, creating a choke point). Smoking your own troops obviously makes you blind, and allows the enemy to simply wander around the outside of the smoke without much to worry about
tl;dr - defensive smoke is a good tactic, but smoking your own troops or an objective you currently hold, isn't going to achieve much at all
One thing to remember - any use of smoke while you're defending IS defensive smoke, regardless of where you put it. I see people saying "lol defensive smoke is retarded", this is definitely not the case.
If you're defending A and the enemy is coming from B, smoking location B so the enemy has to emerge from smoke IS defensive smoke. It does not become offensive simply because you're throwing it at the enemy instead of yourself - you are using that smoke in a defensive position, and by smoking the enemy you are causing them to gamble their lives - this is very defensive.
As mentioned, the ideal (where possible) is probably to smoke out support troops/emplacements, forcing the front lines to advance without support. Failing that, smoking the front lines (of the enemy!) forces them to either gamble by emerging from smoke into the unknown, or to take a completely different route which could also compromise their attack.
Smoking an area occupied by your troops whether defending or attacking, is IMO bad and not tactically advantageous. You should either be moving through the smoke to your objective - in which case your smoke should be on or close to the objective - or you're covering an area to force your enemy through the smoke, or through alternative routes (preferably covered by heavy fire from other angles, creating a choke point). Smoking your own troops obviously makes you blind, and allows the enemy to simply wander around the outside of the smoke without much to worry about
tl;dr - defensive smoke is a good tactic, but smoking your own troops or an objective you currently hold, isn't going to achieve much at all
Smoke will always be situational.
The OP speaks of being in a cap zone with good sight lines to fire on approaching enemy.
I would say that is not a good time to use "defensive smoke".
It is a bad idea to obstruct your own killing zone when you are in an entrenched position.
However, defensive smoke can used to good effect. It can work well to throw smoke over obstacles that are already blocking sight lines, like buildings or rubble, because you can end up slowing down the enemy advance since they do not know if your side is advancing through the smoke or not.
Otherwise, the only time I can see smoking your own position as a good thing would be if you are like the sole survivor, being hunted inside a warren, like a basement with many rooms and your only objective is staying alive long enough for a timer to expire.
The OP speaks of being in a cap zone with good sight lines to fire on approaching enemy.
I would say that is not a good time to use "defensive smoke".
It is a bad idea to obstruct your own killing zone when you are in an entrenched position.
However, defensive smoke can used to good effect. It can work well to throw smoke over obstacles that are already blocking sight lines, like buildings or rubble, because you can end up slowing down the enemy advance since they do not know if your side is advancing through the smoke or not.
Otherwise, the only time I can see smoking your own position as a good thing would be if you are like the sole survivor, being hunted inside a warren, like a basement with many rooms and your only objective is staying alive long enough for a timer to expire.
Smoke on capzone = stupid
Artillery on capzone = stupid
Smoke on attackers sniper and MG holes = good
Artillery on attackers path = good
Popping smoke that forces the enemy to run through it and into the open where your MGs can mow them down is what you want from your smoke. They can't see where your defensive positions are until they get through the smoke and by then it's too late; they are dead.
Just don't use smoke too close to the objective as it will minimize the kill area for your team.
Artillery on capzone = stupid
Smoke on attackers sniper and MG holes = good
Artillery on attackers path = good
Popping smoke that forces the enemy to run through it and into the open where your MGs can mow them down is what you want from your smoke. They can't see where your defensive positions are until they get through the smoke and by then it's too late; they are dead.
Just don't use smoke too close to the objective as it will minimize the kill area for your team.
Generally speaking the best use of smoke defensively is to protect friendly troops advancing from the spawn to the objective. The smoke certainly shouldn't be on the objective, or really anywhere near it. But if you smoke some of the more obvious routes that troops take out of the spawn area to get to the front line, you can often protect them from preying machine guns.
That said, most people can't even grasp how to use smoke well offensively. People seem to either smoke the cover the attackers are using, which helps the defenders. Or they throw smoke against the objective building itself, leaving a large open space of ground without cover...
You want to provide cover on the dash to the objective. You don't want to blind people in cover giving defensive fire, and you don't want the attackers to stumble into an environment so foggy it could be a Sisters Of Mercy concert.
That said, most people can't even grasp how to use smoke well offensively. People seem to either smoke the cover the attackers are using, which helps the defenders. Or they throw smoke against the objective building itself, leaving a large open space of ground without cover...
You want to provide cover on the dash to the objective. You don't want to blind people in cover giving defensive fire, and you don't want the attackers to stumble into an environment so foggy it could be a Sisters Of Mercy concert.
![[TORO]Patosentado](/data/avatars/s/35/35970.jpg?1568638684){kind=avatar}
I hate it... you can be shot inside it but unable to aim...
As Patton said "best cover is direct MG fire"
As Patton said "best cover is direct MG fire"
Thanks for the input guys and its good to see most of us agree defensive smoking a capzone is bad at least I'm not alone on this.Also some good points to when defensive smoke can be of help.Like past the capzone so the enemy has to run through it but,then is exposed/surprised when they charge the zone.Or smoking the approach to the zone so your guys can get in and defend without being mowed down by flankers etc.
Now lets just hope some newbie SL's read this thread some good tips here.
Now lets just hope some newbie SL's read this thread some good tips here.
I generally leave the "special" classes alone, because I always feel I'll be crap at them I tried SL online just a couple of days ago, and really enjoyed it. I had a good think about what I should be doing before going for it, and felt pretty satisfied throwing smoke and seeing people use it well I don't use VoIP at the moment due to crappy bandwidth issues, and it was nice to see people making use of my contribution without the need for communication.
Later I plucked up the courage to target some arty, which resulted in a quick cap of the next objective. I know you don't approve DiedTrying, but I did drop it smack on the objective - but in my defense, there were no friendlies moving up at the time, and the cap was crawling with rifles
I'm not sure I'm going anywhere near Commander or Tanker though lol. Maybe once I've got some radio locations memorised, but it's still a fair bit of responsibility. I know they're on the map, but it isn't the same IMO... Also, I don't want to see my TK's rolling by on the obituaries. With Commander, I like to think that the person in the role is capable - and if they aren't, well at least it isn't me lol
EDIT: I do love what smoke brings to the game, and it seems to be limited/balanced enough to not kill the game. Others may see that differently, but I do personally feel that it fits really nicely, and I've never really thought it was over the top and spoiled my enjoyment.
I tried SL online just a couple of days ago, and really enjoyed it. I had a good think about what I should be doing before going for it, and felt pretty satisfied throwing smoke and seeing people use it well I don't use VoIP at the moment due to crappy bandwidth issues, and it was nice to see people making use of my contribution without the need for communication. Later I plucked up the courage to target some arty, which resulted in a quick cap of the next objective. I know you don't approve DiedTrying, but I did drop it smack on the objective - but in my defense, there were no friendlies moving up at the time, and the cap was crawling with rifles
I'm not sure I'm going anywhere near Commander or Tanker though
lol. Maybe once I've got some radio locations memorised, but it's still a fair bit of responsibility. I know they're on the map, but it isn't the same IMO... Also, I don't want to see my TK's rolling by on the obituaries. With Commander, I like to think that the person in the role is capable - and if they aren't, well at least it isn't me lolEDIT: I do love what smoke brings to the game, and it seems to be limited/balanced enough to not kill the game. Others may see that differently, but I do personally feel that it fits really nicely, and I've never really thought it was over the top and spoiled my enjoyment.
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To me, defensive smoke is throwing smoke in the faces of shooters so THEY can't see you.
Throwing smoke at your feet is basically opening the door for an assault player to walk up to you and hose you down.
Throwing smoke at your feet is basically opening the door for an assault player to walk up to you and hose you down.
It depends on the map and while done right it CAN be helpful generally I find it is done not very well and then becomes a problem.
The absolute WORST is when you see friendlies smoking the zone in front of the guardhouse when defending on the grain elevator. That entire area is a giant killing zone to mow down germans; once some idiot smokes the area up it becomes a close range 1v1 fight on the ground and everyone with a ranged view becomes useless. (Or worse, half the germans slip on through and basically have c capped by the time b falls)
The absolute WORST is when you see friendlies smoking the zone in front of the guardhouse when defending on the grain elevator. That entire area is a giant killing zone to mow down germans; once some idiot smokes the area up it becomes a close range 1v1 fight on the ground and everyone with a ranged view becomes useless. (Or worse, half the germans slip on through and basically have c capped by the time b falls)
i use smoke to cover own reinforements approach when they are attacked at spawn, do not remember situations where smoke in capzone defence would be necessary.
Smoke most definetely has its purposes. I like to see layers of smoke from the SL's and Officer to cover large distances under fire. Smoke on the objective in order to blind the enemy so as to allow movement is good. SMoke on a tank or its field of view is another use. I think players with experience will learn eventualy on how to place smoke.