Defend/Control the Area/Objective Gamemode

[omarfw]

There have been defend the vip gamemode ideas tossed around but I don't think those have ever been successful.
There have also been assault or objective based gamemode ideas thrown around but those would need entirely new maps to get off the ground.
so I thought of this.

While I was playing KF me and another lvl 5 were out in a clearing while the other 15 or so people were inside the other part of the map. While we were out there, it almost felt like we were defending the trader area while everyone else cleared out the main swarm. (at least, it was more fun to pretend we were. in reality it was pointless.)

Then I thought, how cool would it be if you actually did have to defend an area or some sort of object? (ala DA2)

And not just one point, perhaps multiple points on the map with one of them being the primary one (ala ut2k4 onslaught)

This would require much more teamwork related organization and use of the command system and voice chat.

Right now the only real tactics involved in KF are these:

1. Watch your back
2. Stick with your team
3. Each perk should stick to his respected specimens he is made to take out
4. heal heal heal
5. Take out the siren before anything else

Here's a rough idea of what I'm talking about

VERSION A:

There are objectives you have to defend and if the specimens destroy them then the max specimen count goes up, therefore increasing the difficulty.

The specimens never stop spawning. You win by defending the objective until the timer runs out.

There is a primary objective. This could be a number of things and the point of the gamemode centers around what this is. I haven't thought much in terms of ideas for what it could be though, that's what this thread is for.

There are secondary objectives at different areas of the map. The specimens have to destroy these in order to go after your primary objective.

VERSION B

The specimens spawn like in version A, neverending. You have to defend the primary objective till the timer runs out.

BUT instead of having objects inside the rooms that you have to keep alive, you have to maintain control of the room. The capturing would work like capturing in battlefield games. If the specimens control the room then the max specimen count goes up. If you control it then it goes down. The more people you have helping you defend the harder it is for specimens to capture it.

The rooms would have to have some sort of feature to show you who controlled it. It could glow red at the borders for specimen control and green for player control.

If the specimens control the rest of the rooms, then they go for the main room. If they get control of that one then they go after the main objective. If they destroy it then you lose.


Respawning for players would be infinite to avoid the game ending early just because everyone died. This wouldn't be survival anymore.

This would be implementable onto the existing official maps since it's perfectly fine for close quarters play and it would just require some editing of the maps to enable the functions for this mode. Most other gamemode ideas would require much more work then that.

I feel it would allow for much more strategic play and utilizing teamwork to keep points controlled. If you are all together at one point then the specimens will eventually overrun you.

One problem is that this would be far too easy to win on beginner and normal. though the current survival gamemode is too easy on those difficulties anyway.

UPDATE:

The specimens spawn indefinitely. Each wave ends when the time limit is up.

You and the specimens both have the ability to control all the rooms or anywhere that is a control point. If the specimens capture one, then they will get more powerful aka more of them at once, if you capture them, you get ammo and weapons and less specimens to fight.

You have a primary core that can only be attacked by the specimens if they control all the other rooms. If they destroy this then you enter sudden death mode.

You have infinite respawns, you don't lose by dying but by getting your core destroyed and THEN dying.

If you DO survive all 10 waves, then the patty spawns. Defeat him and you win.

If you don't survive all the waves (aka your core gets destroyed) you lose all ammo sources and you have to destroy the specimens core as a last ditch effort to defeat them. If you fail to do this (aka you all die in the process) you lose.

The patty will not spawn if your core gets destroyed but you will have the full onslaught of specimens to get through if you have any hope of destroying their core point.
​

 

[Bio666]

One problem is that this would be far too easy to win on beginner and normal. though the current survival gamemode is too easy on those difficulties anyway.

There is a reason it's called Beginner/Normal.

 

[omarfw]

There is a reason it's called Beginner/Normal.

yeah but i think it would be easy to the point of ridiculousness. though i guess people just wouldn't play those difficulties then when on that gamemode.

 

[brphoenix]

I'd prefer version A, though it plays quite a bit like any defense map I've seen so far (KF_Defense_v2 or something is the best)
I feel there isn't a need for adding a new gameplay mode, though.

But to the constructive (I hope) criticism:
How would you handle weapons when someone respawned? Have a stash of every available weapons somewhere? Give him his tier3 weapon? Not give any at all?

And what would happen had specimens destroy your objective? You simply fail, and go straight to the "overrun" screen? Or the game start spawning only FPs to overwhelm you?

Don't you think it could be farmed for damage? Like, even more than solo-ing? With infinite zeds, all you have to do is hold to the last minute. And that would probably e VERY long, so games wouldn' feel short (mind that a long suicidal game goes on for about 40min)

So, I exposed all issues I could think of.
It's not a bad idea, keep that in mind, but it needs to be trimmed to perfection. There'd be a LOT of coding going on for it to work, plus a LOT of man-hours spent balancing every little part.

 

[omarfw]

I'd prefer version A, though it plays quite a bit like any defense map I've seen so far (KF_Defense_v2 or something is the best)
I feel there isn't a need for adding a new gameplay mode, though.

True, but the point of those maps is still survival. Even though it's called defense and it's a base being invaded with specimens, you aren't actually defending anything but yourselves and your teammates. You aren't even defending the base itself since it can't be taken over or destroyed.

But to the constructive (I hope) criticism:
How would you handle weapons when someone respawned? Have a stash of every available weapons somewhere? Give him his tier3 weapon? Not give any at all?

Excellent question. I had forgotten to think about this.
I imagine the current trader and wave system would work with this pretty well. Though the waves would end after a time limit and not just from killing them all. All the traders on the map could all open up so you wouldn't be forced to relocate and not have time to return to the place your defending.

Or as a more alternative option, weapons and ammo would spawn on the ground (more so then in normal gameplay) and you would have to use those.

Or, the rooms could have ammo boxes that would resupply you and would have a time limit between uses. Though they would only be active if you had control of the room they were in.

And what would happen had specimens destroy your objective? You simply fail, and go straight to the "overrun" screen? Or the game start spawning only FPs to overwhelm you?

Well, it could either be the end and you lose, or it could instigate a sudden death mode that just makes it switch to normal gameplay and you can no longer capture any points or use the trader/use the control point ammo stations and if you could survive with the limited ammo then you win. This option of course would have to be very difficult to pull off to deter people from allowing their core control point to be captured because killing the specimens was easier. (see bottom of thread for more ideas pertaining to how you win)

Don't you think it could be farmed for damage? Like, even more than solo-ing? With infinite zeds, all you have to do is hold to the last minute. And that would probably e VERY long, so games wouldn' feel short (mind that a long suicidal game goes on for about 40min)

People are going to do that in solo-play and with white-listed muts anyway. This would allow you to farm for longer periods of time at once sure, but it wouldn't allow you to advance your perks any faster then normal gameplay so I don't see anything wrong with that.

It's not a bad idea, keep that in mind, but it needs to be trimmed to perfection. There'd be a LOT of coding going on for it to work, plus a LOT of man-hours spent balancing every little part.

True. I think if TWI is going to add a new gamemode (which they will probably have to inevitibly. having only one gamemode is pretty much the only thing limiting the game right now.) it will either have to be an official version of KF deathmatch, this, or an objective based campaign. The KF DM is mostly done since it was created by the community and this idea would take far less coding and creation to implement then an entirely new campaign since it would make use of the already existing official maps.

Also, I just thought about this. Where does the patty come in?

Well, he could either just be in the last wave like normal, but being that he would too easily destroy your objective, im not sure that would be feasible. imo it would be a great opportunity to throw in a NEW boss (a weaker, more mini-boss type one) but that's just more work.

Here's an idea: The specimens have a primary spawning point, you can't destroy it unless your main one is destroyed and survival mode is initiated (as a last ditch effort to win.)

Here's the catch, it's defended by the patty. He stays in the room containing the specimen core UNTIL you defeat all the waves. THEN he leaves the room and goes out to hunt you all. So it'd work the same as the normal gamemode cept he would serve as a sentry until the waves were over.

So if you try to go in right off the bat and destroy the specimen core, you'd probably fail. but if you can manage it, then you win.

OR just make the specimen core invulnerable until yours is toast and don't have the patty guard it and have him spawn when you defeat all the waves.


SUMMARY TIEMZ:

The specimens spawn indefinitely. Each wave ends when the time limit is up.

You and the specimens both have the ability to control all the rooms or anywhere that is a control point. If the specimens capture one, then they will get more powerful aka more of them at once, if you capture them, you get ammo and weapons and less specimens to fight.

You have a primary core that can only be attacked by the specimens if they control all the other rooms. If they destroy this then you enter sudden death mode.

You have infinite respawns, you don't lose by dying but by getting your core destroyed and THEN dying.

If you DO survive all 10 waves, then the patty spawns. Defeat him and you win.

If you don't survive all the waves (aka your core gets destroyed) you lose all ammo sources and you have to destroy the specimens core as a last ditch effort to defeat them. If you fail to do this (aka you all die in the process) you lose.

The patty will not spawn if your core gets destroyed but you will have the full onslaught of specimens to get through if you have any hope of destroying their core point.
​

 

[nath2009uk]

I only read the first 2 posts, but for version A i was thinking of a sort of 'Defend the fllag / object' mode.

A flag / object will be placed somewhere on the map, and you have to defend it from a certain number of hits from zeds. It's Almost like playing Gold Crates on BF : BC, except your playing against Zeds and the gold crates are neutral.

After you've defended it for about 2-4 minutes, a new flag / Obj spawns somewhere, and you've got 10 seconds to get there before the zeds start attacking it and not going after you.

 

[ScarFace]

I like the idea...but I have a question.

From what I understand if the players control all the areas the zeds spawn less frequently and you get more ammo and weapons. So if your good enough to control all the areas (which I'm assuming you start off controlling) then how would you EVER get overwhelmed with less zeds and more fire power?

It should be the other way around. If you control them all they spawn more frequently so they can take areas...and you have to fight back to capture them.

 

[Foxyfired]

with lv6, difficulties can change their name (beginner, normal, hard, suicidal) can become (ridicoulous, tourist baby, civil battle, normal war)
BUT i like very much the idea of a survival mode or a defend point because: if you now the map "survival", you survive 5mn alone on this map........on......beginner ^^
then if they do this type of mode, it can be funny and as "survival", why not a map which never end but you must survive the longer time, no end (and for an achievement, just survive as long as the achievement want, to have it)

 

[omarfw]

I like the idea...but I have a question.

From what I understand if the players control all the areas the zeds spawn less frequently and you get more ammo and weapons. So if your good enough to control all the areas (which I'm assuming you start off controlling) then how would you EVER get overwhelmed with less zeds and more fire power?

It should be the other way around. If you control them all they spawn more frequently so they can take areas...and you have to fight back to capture them.

because like in normal survival mode, the number of zeds and what kind of zeds would increase as the wave number increases.

so the number of zeds would be increased by wave number AND how many points they controlled.

 

[ScarFace]

because like in normal survival mode, the number of zeds and what kind of zeds would increase as the wave number increases.

so the number of zeds would be increased by wave number AND how many points they controlled.

right but AS stated above...if you controlled all points...LESS zeds spawn. Making it easier when ur winning. If you are dominating by holding all control points the game should be harder.

I know its blasphemy on this forum to mention L4D but the "director" adjusts the game depending on how well or bad u are doing. I like your idea don't get me wrong I just think you have it backwards. As you have it now if your winning it gets easier by spawning less zeds, whereas I'm saying it should get harder if your winning handily.

 

[omarfw]

right but AS stated above...if you controlled all points...LESS zeds spawn. Making it easier when ur winning. If you are dominating by holding all control points the game should be harder.

I know its blasphemy on this forum to mention L4D but the "director" adjusts the game depending on how well or bad u are doing. I like your idea don't get me wrong I just think you have it backwards. As you have it now if your winning it gets easier by spawning less zeds, whereas I'm saying it should get harder if your winning handily.

the director adjusts things in the background without you knowing what it adjusts. This gamemode on the other hand will statistically make it more difficult just like how the specimens health are always multiplied depending on how many players there are. and anyway L4D didn't exactly invent that kind of thing so i dont care if KF "steals" ideas aka adds things that are similiar to L4D in a tiny way. L4D can go eat a bag of dicks.

if you manage to control all the points the entire match and keep your core alive, then you win. but it shouldn't be easy to do that. the specimen count and difficulty will increase if you hold all the points or not. but losing control points will only make things harder for you.

when you only have 6 players, controlling all the points the whole game would not exactly be a walk in the park, so if players started losing them or lost all of them and the specimen count went DOWN it would be far too easy at that point for the players to defend their core control point and turn the tide back to their advantage.

the way it's supposed to work is that if you start losing, you REALLY start losing. aka it's gotta be hard to turn the tides, so you have to work hard to keep the upperhand while you have it, while still making going from losing to winning again not so impossible to the point where you're completely boned and have no chance of winning. KF is a difficult game at it's core and a gamemode that takes advantage of that that is more complex than "stay alive" will make it even more fun to play imo.

much like when you are down from 6 players to only 2 in survival mode. those 2 players are your only chance at getting to the next wave but their chances are much slimmer and it will be much harder for them with 4 players down, but that's what you get for being careless. losing shouldn't be rewarded with ease of difficulty.

to sum up my reason, if it got easier when you held no points, people would just hold them when they needed ammo and then let them be taken over because it was easier that way and everyone would just camp their core control point. that would basically make this a broken gamemode.

 

[nath2009uk]

L4D can go eat a bag of dicks.

Yo dawg we herd u like bags and dicks so we gave you a bag of dicks to eat!

Also,
Version A actually sounds fun

 

[omarfw]

if you wanna throw out ideas for version A (the kind which is more "defend the objectives" with no area controlling involved) go ahead, im having a hard time picturing how it would work so i'm more working up ideas for version B