Dedicated German AT rifle

[Lt. Heinz Becker]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining that the Germans use a PTRS AT rifle. It is entirely possible that the Germans could have captured and used stolen Russian AT weapons. However, the Germans did have their own AT rifle designs during the war and more then likely used them during this battle. An example would be the Panzerb​

 

[aaz777]

If in your opinion its completely okay that germans get russian weapon with better characteristics as stock role weapon while game already has system for captured weapons, the just think about soviet MG role having MG-34 as stock weapon. You would probably complain about it a lot.

 

[Lt. Heinz Becker]

I agree that the PzB39 would be inferior to the PTRS41 since the PTRS is a semi auto with a 5 round capacity, and the PzB39 is a single shot bolt action, but at least the German side would have their own AT rifle to use. Im not even sure the penetration characteristics of the PzB39 would be enough to go against a T70 or a T34, but it is an idea.

 

[mrsirr]

I believe the Pzb penetrated some 30ish mm of some kind of armor.
Either way though, it'd be cool to have a pzb 39. I believe aaz was working on one at some point.

 

[Lemonater47]

The PTRS fired a round over 4 times the mass of a Pzb 39 round. PTRS rounds were also incendiary rounds while Pzb 39 rounds actually had tear gas. The PTRS also had almost double the penatration power than the Pzb 39. The Pzb was made to make the tank crew less. The PTRS was designed to disable tanks in any way possible.

 

[mrsirr]

The PTRS fired a round over 4 times the mass of a Pzb 39 round. PTRS rounds were also incendiary rounds while Pzb 39 rounds actually had tear gas.

Wut? Tear gas? I mean I imagine there were tear gas rounds for the pzgr but tear gas bullets seems quite odd. Also I don't know if the in-game PTRS has the API rounds, I think it's just regular AP.

 

[Lemonater47]

Wut? Tear gas? I mean I imagine there were tear gas rounds for the pzgr but tear gas bullets seems quite odd. Also I don't know if the in-game PTRS has the API rounds, I think it's just regular AP.

I kid you not they were APCR tear gas rounds. Two kinds. Steel core and tungsten core. With the steel core the tear gas cap broke off even if the round penetrated. The tungstan core meant the round held its shape better when it penetrated to gas those inside the tank rather than gas the outside of the tank. The tear gas was to compensate for the little damage it actually did. It could fill a tank with holes but it couldn't damage anything important including the crew. So tear gas was the solution and that round was put into production. Didn't have incendiary or HE rounds either lol.

As far as the game is concerned the PTRS rounds are a magic new round called APHE. They explode in a visually large explosion lol. And that counts as it penetrating. The PTRS didn't have a standard AP round. It had various AP-I rounds, an HE-I round and a tracer round. The game will either use a BS round or a B-32 round. The BS round can penatrate 32mm of 60 degree armour at 500m while the B-32 round can penatrate 32mm of 90 degree armour at 500m.

 

[aaz777]

if germans would get their sturmpistole/kampfpistole game would get balanced but different teams. But no, germans must get russian weapon with tungsten core.
Again, imagine if soviet MGunner had mg34 with some special ammo ( explosive? incendary? ) as stock weapon. This is exactly the same thing as with AT rifles. But nobody would ever accept it as a normal thing

 

[Lemonater47]

I don't think anyone agrees with the german PTRS being better than the russian one.

 

[aaz777]

no matter who agrees and who doesnt. Its the fact that german PTRS has better characteristics. For 3 years after release it had 55mm penetration while soviet had 34mm. Now its about 40mm but still better.

 

[Kleist]

no matter who agrees and who doesnt. Its the fact that german PTRS has better characteristics. For 3 years after release it had 55mm penetration while soviet had 34mm. Now its about 40mm but still better.

That

 

[LugNut]

I don't know how it's coded, but after killing hundreds of Russian tanks with it, Pzb will generally only penetrate where the armor is thin, behind the running gear and top. My data is on my comp, but I'd say places 25 mm or less at 90 degrees.

It's not a realistic loadout, I agree, but as it stands, it's much harder to kill allied tanks than it is to kill axis with the PTRS.

I'd welcome a more realistic weapon, especially if it's less effective, I like a challenge.

 

[Lemonater47]

I don't know how it's coded, but after killing hundreds of Russian tanks with it, Pzb will generally only penetrate where the armor is thin, behind the running gear and top. My data is on my comp, but I'd say places 25 mm or less at 90 degrees.

It's not a realistic loadout, I agree, but as it stands, it's much harder to kill allied tanks than it is to kill axis with the PTRS.

I'd welcome a more realistic weapon, especially if it's less effective, I like a challenge.

In game I always die to the german AT rifle more than the russian one.

 

[LugNut]

Allied stacker!

 

[mrsirr]

I kid you not they were APCR tear gas rounds. Two kinds. Steel core and tungsten core. With the steel core the tear gas cap broke off even if the round penetrated. The tungstan core meant the round held its shape better when it penetrated to gas those inside the tank rather than gas the outside of the tank. The tear gas was to compensate for the little damage it actually did. It could fill a tank with holes but it couldn't damage anything important including the crew. So tear gas was the solution and that round was put into production. Didn't have incendiary or HE rounds either lol.

That is pretty boss.

 

[aaz777]

PTRS didnt have any mass produced tear gas ammo. It was a prototype "BZH" but it wasnt mass produced. Both B-32 and BS-41 AP ammo were also incendary, tear gas ammo was used by germans for Pzb39

 

[Frostedfire]

I don't know how it's coded, but after killing hundreds of Russian tanks with it, Pzb will generally only penetrate where the armor is thin, behind the running gear and top. My data is on my comp, but I'd say places 25 mm or less at 90 degrees.

It's not a realistic loadout, I agree, but as it stands, it's much harder to kill allied tanks than it is to kill axis with the PTRS.

I'd welcome a more realistic weapon, especially if it's less effective, I like a challenge.

that armour's not thin, just not hardened. They changed that with the armoured assault patch when they nerfed the pzb, so it could still penetrate the spots they wanted it to. A side effect of this change is that it makes that plate effectively thicker than before, which doesn't affect the kwk 40 so much but it does make life painful for the 5cm

 

[morticore]

14,5x114mm PTRS, 7,92x94 mm PzB 39, 7,92x107 PzB 35(p)/ AT rifle wz. 35, 7,92x57 Mauser Rifle

The irritant agent in the projectile was a ridiculous idea that envisioned to make the crew of the hit target leave their vehicle or otherwise impair them to a degree of battleunworthiness; however, the tear gas pellet in the projectile was so little that the irritant agent was never noticed by enemy crews; in fact, it wasn't discovered by the allies until after captured ammunition was examined.
http://www.oocities.org/augusta/8172/panzerfaust6.htm

 

[Panzer Jager '43]

The PTRS fired a round over 4 times the mass of a Pzb 39 round. PTRS rounds were also incendiary rounds while Pzb 39 rounds actually had tear gas. The PTRS also had almost double the penatration power than the Pzb 39. The Pzb was made to make the tank crew less. The PTRS was designed to disable tanks in any way possible.

Uh 45mm penetration is not double of 30mm.. and certain rounds of 14.5x114mm only go through 36mm.

Aside from that the German PTRS is still incapable of penetrating a T34/76 anyways; while the PzB.39 could still penetrate the sides of a T70. As a result of this the only considerable difference would be the rate of fire.

In IOM we will have the PzB.39 in version 1.15. It works fine as a replacement for the captured PTRS, as it still defeats all the same targets as the PTRS on the Axis team would.

 

[Lemonater47]

Uh 45mm penetration is not double of 30mm.. and certain rounds of 14.5x114mm only go through 36mm.

Aside from that the German PTRS is still incapable of penetrating a T34/76 anyways; while the PzB.39 could still penetrate the sides of a T70. As a result of this the only considerable difference would be the rate of fire.

In IOM we will have the PzB.39 in version 1.15. It works fine as a replacement for the captured PTRS, as it still defeats all the same targets as the PTRS on the Axis team would.

36mm at 500m lol. The Pzb could only do 25mm at 300m. So saying "almost double" is correct. The PTRS could also get through 40mm sloped at 60 degrees at 100m. The round itself was also far more damaging once it penetrated than the PZB round. The PZB needs to be worse than the PTRS.