Declining number of populated Classic servers. Bots everywhere.. What now?

[Conscript]

I'm sad to see Classic servers emptying.

Contrary to what Praxius said, I am one of the players who actually finds Realism more "boring" and easier than Classic. It's nothing to do with weapons and variety; I just start playing Realism and tend to tire of it within 30-60 minutes or so. It just doesn't feel special; the combination of faster game/gun play, weapon upgrades and some arguably silly load outs just makes the game feel dangerously close to many other popular FPS games. More variety in weapons, yes, but I think I prefer the simplicity of Classic, with set loadouts and less emphasis on levelling.

By comparison, I can play Classic for hours on end and not get bored. I find it a much tenser experience; slower running speed makes for more thought out movement and the link between stamina and weapon sway makes hitting targets much harder. I feel like I have to put more thought and effort into everything and it's that which keeps me involved in the game.

Don't get me wrong, I actually play both modes, and I don't want to get into childish "mines better than yours" arguments (the community is too small to risk such divisions). To each, his own. But I just wanted to throw my opinion in; I do find Classic more involving, tense, and challenging so it's my favourite mode.

That said, I actually think the best mode would be a blending of the two. I like Classic loadouts (fewer semi autos, silly weapon prototypes and standard issue equipment available to all), but then I think the running speed still feels a bit too slow. I'm really looking forward to the proposed changes to Classic mode which will speed it up slightly.

 

[G_Sajer]

I think folks should keep in mind that a number of servers that are configured for custom are set to behave in a manner very close to Classic with regard to movement and behavior. Even on our realism servers movement has been modified to incorporate some classic features. At least one of Mike's servers behave very much like classic from my recollection. And RGN uses no bots as far as I know. Take a little time and research some custom servers. With regard to the population, yeah, it Summer and folks get distracted. Things are cyclical.

 

[>F|R< Sarcinelli]

I think folks should keep in mind that a number of servers that are configured for custom are set to behave in a manner very close to Classic with regard to movement and behavior. Even on our realism servers movement has been modified to incorporate some classic features. At least one of Mike's servers behave very much like classic from my recollection. And RGN uses no bots as far as I know. Take a little time and research some custom servers. With regard to the population, yeah, it Summer and folks get distracted. Things are cyclical.

The problem is the Server Browser sucks at telling you this. We need better filters, more information shown on the browser we need the option to see "under the hood" configs, mutators running, etc

 

[TrOOper]

That said, I actually think the best mode would be a blending of the two.

If I could have my wish, it would be this!

It would take both sides to come to an agreement and no one would get everything they want. But one mode besides "action" would help the community move forward with less rock throwing.

I am an old RO1 player that likes RO2. The game has so much potential.

Currently I play on a custom server that uses classic weapon handling and load outs and has reduced stamina but realism speed.. No instant iron sights from a dead run....

 

[LugNut]

Really, the best solution would be abolishing the Ranked/Unranked distinction in the browser and give admins total control over all the things we like or complain about. No more Modes to argue over, just a single starting point. People will find the servers set up in the way they like and populate them. Any from those with all the bells and whistles like crosshairs and weapon unlocks to bolt only.

Have we really seen an advantage to having "official" modes? New players are not infants, they don't need to be handfed a game style like Action before they are capable of joining any random server. Leave them alone and let them play. All having modes has done is split the community and promote divisiveness. Instead of us beating up on each other for playing an inferior mode, we could instead be promoting certain servers or mods we like. "You have to try XYZ's server with the SooperDooper mod! It's amazing!"

My choice for setup? Classic-ish with PJ weapons mod, Dibblers sound & realism mod and Thors no hud and shut up mods. All notifications off. No zoom. Lvl 0 sprint speeds that are terrain dependent. If a server set up like that appeared in the server browser, who knows how many like minded players it would attract? None? A hundred? How will we ever know? As it stands now, it'd be Unranked and invisible.

Whitelisting and the Ranked/Unranked debacle is also a disincentive to the community to create new content.

Agreed, more content is needed. I'm tired of shoebox maps, as most of the stock ones are. TWI is not interested in producing more vehicles or they would've released something by now. I'm hopeful for the vehicle mod team, but it's disappointing to have to rely on them, I expected TWI to provide as promised.

 

[GRIZZLY]

Really, the best solution would be abolishing the Ranked/Unranked distinction in the browser and give admins total control over all the things we like or complain about.

I started a thread about that in January 2012, and it's been proposed many times since then.

My choice for setup? Classic-ish with PJ weapons mod, Dibblers sound & realism mod and Thors no hud and shut up mods. All notifications off. No zoom. Lvl 0 sprint speeds that are terrain dependent.

Sounds pretty damn good to me.

 

[r5cya]

I think folks should keep in mind that a number of servers that are configured for custom are set to behave in a manner very close to Classic with regard to movement and behavior. Even on our realism servers movement has been modified to incorporate some classic features. At least one of Mike's servers behave very much like classic from my recollection. And RGN uses no bots as far as I know. Take a little time and research some custom servers. With regard to the population, yeah, it Summer and folks get distracted. Things are cyclical.

I've been wanting to mention that the RGN custom server is running the settings most of the guys in this thread are asking for. thanks for telling them. they still probably wont try it out though. it says "custom", not "classic".

 

[LordKhaine]

I think simply changing the movement speed in classic to that of (level 0) realism would cease many of the complaints made about classic. It's always the thing people complain about, and frankly I think that movement speed would be fine with most classic players. It was only after you added all the level bonuses that movement speed became a bit silly.

This would be trivial to do code wise, would require minimal testing and would also likely improve the map balance in classic for some of the attacking maps.

 

[Kleist]

My choice for setup? Classic-ish with PJ weapons mod, Dibblers sound & realism mod and Thors no hud and shut up mods. All notifications off. No zoom. Lvl 0 sprint speeds that are terrain dependent. If a server set up like that appeared in the server browser, who knows how many like minded players it would attract? None? A hundred? How will we ever know? As it stands now, it'd be Unranked and invisible.

Whitelisting and the Ranked/Unranked debacle is also a disincentive to the community to create new content.

99% to this server settings

I love the random chatter in game


And I would vote for remove rank and unranked in server settings.

By the way I don

 

[Sensemann]

Really, the best solution would be abolishing the Ranked/Unranked distinction in the browser and give admins total control over all the things we like or complain about. No more Modes to argue over, just a single starting point. People will find the servers set up in the way they like and populate them. Any from those with all the bells and whistles like crosshairs and weapon unlocks to bolt only.

Have we really seen an advantage to having "official" modes? New players are not infants, they don't need to be handfed a game style like Action before they are capable of joining any random server. Leave them alone and let them play. All having modes has done is split the community and promote divisiveness. Instead of us beating up on each other for playing an inferior mode, we could instead be promoting certain servers or mods we like. "You have to try XYZ's server with the SooperDooper mod! It's amazing!"

My choice for setup? Classic-ish with PJ weapons mod, Dibblers sound & realism mod and Thors no hud and shut up mods. All notifications off. No zoom. Lvl 0 sprint speeds that are terrain dependent. If a server set up like that appeared in the server browser, who knows how many like minded players it would attract? None? A hundred? How will we ever know? As it stands now, it'd be Unranked and invisible.

Whitelisting and the Ranked/Unranked debacle is also a disincentive to the community to create new content.

Agreed, more content is needed. I'm tired of shoebox maps, as most of the stock ones are. TWI is not interested in producing more vehicles or they would've released something by now. I'm hopeful for the vehicle mod team, but it's disappointing to have to rely on them, I expected TWI to provide as promised.

I applaude you. Absolutely well said!

 

[Floyd]

Some of us have been running setups exactly (or extremely close) to what realism haters love and classic haters love (and vise versa). With custom maps AND FROM DAY ONE! Kudos to TWI for making servers very configurable .

The servers are out there, but when you get a big fat screen WARNING you that you are entering a CUSTOM server where the admin has made CHANGES to gameplay, of course people are scared off. If nothing else, they now have some pre-conceived notion that this server is a fluke.

I think they should have left all that garbage off and let the players find servers they liked to play on by themselves. Often you may only think you like one style of play. But often after playing on a server for a while, you may suddenly discover (for example) that the HUD is different and that you actually like the change. Instead, it appears the developers want to make absolutely certain that you know that you are entering a non-out-of-the-box server. Yeah. I'm still twelve....

The last of my RO servers goes off line on the 12th. Don't say the gameplay wasn't offered......

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

I'm sad to see Classic servers emptying.

Contrary to what Praxius said, I am one of the players who actually finds Realism more "boring" and easier than Classic. It's nothing to do with weapons and variety; I just start playing Realism and tend to tire of it within 30-60 minutes or so. It just doesn't feel special; the combination of faster game/gun play, weapon upgrades and some arguably silly load outs just makes the game feel dangerously close to many other popular FPS games. More variety in weapons, yes, but I think I prefer the simplicity of Classic, with set loadouts and less emphasis on levelling.

By comparison, I can play Classic for hours on end and not get bored. I find it a much tenser experience; slower running speed makes for more thought out movement and the link between stamina and weapon sway makes hitting targets much harder. I feel like I have to put more thought and effort into everything and it's that which keeps me involved in the game.

Don't get me wrong, I actually play both modes, and I don't want to get into childish "mines better than yours" arguments (the community is too small to risk such divisions). To each, his own. But I just wanted to throw my opinion in; I do find Classic more involving, tense, and challenging so it's my favourite mode.

That said, I actually think the best mode would be a blending of the two. I like Classic loadouts (fewer semi autos, silly weapon prototypes and standard issue equipment available to all), but then I think the running speed still feels a bit too slow. I'm really looking forward to the proposed changes to Classic mode which will speed it up slightly.

One thing I'd like to point out is that I have noticed recently that when I play Realism the stamina and weapon sway are linked together and you have more sway when you're low on stamina and doesn't stabilize until you regain some stamina back. I'm not exactly sure when they added it in, but I don't think it was that long ago, perhaps even during the RS launch.

For me, the "Simplicity" you speak of in Classic feels like a handicap for me. My character doesn't feel up to par to my own reaction speeds and endurance..... and that breaks the immersion for me. Having various weapons removed is removing content from the game when there is already not much content to begin with.

I can understand people's views on MKB's, MP40-II's or MG34's having saddle drums.... but they did have belt feeds in many situations besides just the single drum..... giving SL's bolt rifles instead of PPSH's was only done because some didn't like players taking those roles because they had PPSH's and not using them "right".... which puts the whole principle of limited weapon availability due to "Realism" right out the window, as that was a gameplay decision, not a "Realism" decision.

And not using the class "Right?"

What is right? Hiding in a hole and not doing anything for your team to spawn on you?

Nope, you can't do that in Classic, so what's the real reason?

As a Commander and SL, I usually lead the charge with my team and use my additional capping power to take objectives (or hold them) and I use that additional fire power of the SMG to help hold back the enemy.... plus marking arty and calling in recon / arty / force respawns, etc.

Now with a SL having only a bolt rifle in most situations, he's a prime target on the battlefield and at a disadvantage inside close combat inside objectives.

As I said, personally, there's a lot of things in Classic that I feel are handicaps more than "Immersive" or "Tense" and there's a lot of decisions made in that mode that put me off of it and I lose any joy that could have existed.

Remove enemy weapon loadouts? Sure, I can live with that.

Increased weapon sway depending on stamina? Already in Realism, so I don't mind that either.

Remove various Level perks so everybody is balanced? I can live with that as well.

But there's a pile of other things in that mode I can't stand and find more frustrating than anything.... much as some find things in Realism frustrating.

I've already put forth a thread a few months back regarding a suggestion of merging the modes into one to simplify things.... remove the leveling except perhaps the stats and hero thing (look and reduced suppression of nearby team mates) and just unlock everything for the player to choose what they want like in the old days.... and removed ranked/unranked values for servers..... (among other things).... and a lot of people were on board.

But the reality is that it's not going to happen... it hasn't happened yet, and with RS being launched recently with the same leveling (yet separate) system and the couple of weeks of XP boosts.... I doubt the system is going anywhere any time soon.

 

[Sensemann]

Some of us have been running setups exactly (or extremely close) to what realism haters love and classic haters love (and vise versa). With custom maps AND FROM DAY ONE! Kudos to TWI for making servers very configurable .

The servers are out there, but when you get a big fat screen WARNING you that you are entering a CUSTOM server where the admin has made CHANGES to gameplay, of course people are scared off. If nothing else, they now have some pre-conceived notion that this server is a fluke.

I think they should have left all that garbage off and let the players find servers they liked to play on by themselves. Often you may only think you like one style of play. But often after playing on a server for a while, you may suddenly discover (for example) that the HUD is different and that you actually like the change. Instead, it appears the developers want to make absolutely certain that you know that you are entering a non-out-of-the-box server. Yeah. I'm still twelve....

The last of my RO servers goes off line on the 12th. Don't say the gameplay wasn't offered......

Floyd,
many of my buddies as well as me, don't really care if it's Realism or Classic. The only thing we never played was Action mode. I personally prefer Classic gun handling but the rest being on realism settings. Now that doesn't mean that I am not willing to play anything else at all.
The real dilemma lies in the problem that every god damn server runs a different style of settings. It's no problem for me to play, let's say, only on RGN, TaT and 2.Fjg. The problem I see for many, including me, is that the different settings are extremely confusing. If I play on one server and have adjusted my mouse sensitivity, I want to be able to play under the same conditions on other servers as well. Again, I don't care if I have 2.2 x zoom or 1.8 x zoom or if I am sprinting at 18 km/h or at 15 km/h.

Some players blamed their poor performances because the switches in the settings are having a big impact. If that is valid or exaggerated, I don't dare judging because I am not a competitive player that is trying to find that last % in his skill set. What is bothering however is the inconsistancy. When I load up a game for the first time, I rebind the keys to my likings, adjust mouse sensitivity and alter graphic settings (max out as far as possible, dare you!). Then I want to play the game.
RO 2 to me was the first game where I switched mouse sensitivity many times, until I bought a G700 and loaded up 2 profiles on the mouse. One for classic weapon handling, one for realism weapon handling. I am totally aware that it's very likely that classic/realism settings do not change mouse sensitivity at all, but I am compensating for sprint speeds by doing this (leading targest and that like). The change is subjective, but to me it's a change.

And again, giving too many options to players shows that you don't know what your game wants to be (find "the way it's meant to be played") and pushes the players in different groups, confusing everybody.

 

[Conscript]

I agree that a mix of the two modes would be best. Personally, I would take Realism, add the Classic weapon loadouts and handling and reduce the speed only ever so slightly. That would probably make it perfect for me

One thing I'd like to point out is that I have noticed recently that when I play Realism the stamina and weapon sway are linked together and you have more sway when you're low on stamina and doesn't stabilize until you regain some stamina back. I'm not exactly sure when they added it in, but I don't think it was that long ago, perhaps even during the RS launch......

....Increased weapon sway depending on stamina? Already in Realism, so I don't mind that either.

I think it's always been in both modes, but in Realism, I hardly notice it and it barely feels like a handicap. Whereas in Classic, trying to aim and fire whilst tired is much more challenging as the effect feels more pronounced.

 

[Kleist]

About new Player, and doesn

 

[how2skate_com]

Arcade = fast, action, easy to get in to.
Realism = slower, more hardcore, more realistic.
Classic = for the RO1 players who aren't enjoying the new game features.

Now, perhaps this isn't true, but this is how people perceive the mode. The USP of the mode is that it's classic, just like the RO1 you used to love. New players will never show any interest in this.

Ofcourse it has a lot to do with the name & marketing around it, but you can't really change that much about the marketing without changing the mode.

 

[G_Sajer]

Arcade = fast, action, easy to get in to.
Realism = slower, more hardcore, more realistic.
Classic = for the RO1 players who aren't enjoying the new game features.

Now, perhaps this isn't true, but this is how people perceive the mode. The USP of the mode is that it's classic, just like the RO1 you used to love. New players will never show any interest in this.

Ofcourse it has a lot to do with the name & marketing around it, but you can't really change that much about the marketing without changing the mode.

While I avoid action mode servers, over the years I just developed a personal approach to RO2; sort of a discipline.

1. I Pick the first server I come across with a good ping and a fair level of public players. The mode can be anything but action. Bots; no bots, I don't care.

2. I auto-select or grab the team with lowest player count.

3. I select the best weapon left available; don't care what it is.

It may seem frustrating at first but after awhile you just get all-around good
at dealing with any weapon and environment. And it's great fun!

 

[kalle]

For me it is the simple fact that I can't sort the server-browser to filter BOTH realism & classic in the same search. As I prioritize to block Action servers I have to chose either Realism OR Classic. Those few times I search for classic servers I find only a few players one every server, so now I won't bother any more, I only filter for Realism servers. Shame that I must sometimes miss out on some good classic matches.

Convenient wins.

 

[Ritterkreuz]

I block all action servers.

Action mode resembles Call of Duty, and it's awful compared to realism. The quality of the players are also lower.

 

[Kowalczyk]

I haven't played much Classic, but I have to admit, the speed turns me away.

I think it's the one element that I find really hard to compromise on. Fewer weapon unlocks, I can live with, no level bonuses, sure, more sway, give it to me, but slower speed ... it just feels wrong.