Decision not to go Combined Arms- TWIlight

[Randy Newman]

Lofty expectation???? You tell me watching the marketing and such for RS that people did not expect some sort of combined arms- I mean a mode of a game typically means at least staying at the leading edge of the previous game. RS - lost 2 tanks???? Lofty expectations- hope about baseline expectations bordering on false advertising for pre-order?

You need to revisit the marketing for RS. Combined arms was never claimed. Infact the devs made it quite clear that RS was going to be infantry only.

Developing vehicles for ARMA is not the same as developing vehicles for UE3. You can grind your gears all you want, but, your railing here won't get vehicles into the game. The vehicle mod team is doing some multiplayer tests. Want to help? Go there and help them out.

Also- glad to see that I've been vindicated on my memory. RO mod V2 and 2.1 did not have vehicles. I started playing at around 2.0 back in the UT2004 mod days.

 

[smith1215]

You need to revisit the marketing for RS. Combined arms was never claimed. Infact the devs made it quite clear that RS was going to be infantry only.

Rising Storm Iwo Jima Teaser Trailer [HD] - YouTube
Why would they put a LVT in the trailer if they weren't going to include them. Did they advertise falsely?

 

[GRIZZLY]

I don't want sequels personally.
It's not wise to make them now... The community will lash out, just like when Empire Total War was released in a buggy, unplayable state...

The backlash at "we're making a sequel to RO!" would HAVE to be less severe than the backlash that occurred at the release of RO2 (which, for many, was unplayable and buggy).

TWI has room to move forward. I think KF2 will come first... However, I think the right move - as a member of the community and a observer of the developer - would be to refocus on RO3. They redefined the digital world of WW2 in RO1, and crafted thoroughly polished mechanics in RO2 and RS.... with a redirected focus they have the potential to make something truly incredible. Nobody else has TWI's vision.

 

[migmadmarine]

Rising Storm Iwo Jima Teaser Trailer [HD] - YouTube
Why would they put a LVT in the trailer if they weren't going to include them. Did they advertise falsely?

Because it is a CGI cinimatic trailer. Look at any CGI cinimatic trailer in the industry, very few, if any only show thing that are possible in game.

 

[Sullumvoe]

Standard practice huh! I don't think so- cgi versus gameplay?? Uhhh how the heck can one differentiate. I could see if it was a cut scene, and that is the rub for standard marketing practice.

 

[Twrecks]

From Indeed [URL]http://www.indeed.com/cmp/Tripwire-Interactive-LLC[/URL]

"Tripwire Interactive is an entertainment software company founded in 2005 by the award winning mod team and winners of the $1,000,000 Make Something Unreal competition. With the fanbase doubling on every release of the original mod"



AKA, by adding vehicles to make ROCA. Vehicles may not have been drivable till after RO v2.0, yet obviously they were in development very early on and did not magically appear (you can see them as staic meshes in early maps). The mechanics for infantry combat were already in place to be modified and released for v1-1.2, not so for vehicles. Adding vehicles is not as easy as reskinning Deathmatch with WWII gear. Vehicles were the main innovation of RO PERIOD.




"Released in early 2006, Tripwire Interactive's debut retail title Red Orchestra: Ostfront 41-45 has achieved both critical and commercial success."



AKA Red Orchestra, the game!



From [URL]http://www.redorchestragame.com/index.php?categoryid=2[/URL]

Red Orchestra: Ostfront 41-45:


Key Features

• Crew 14 fully realized vehicles with highly detailed exterior and interior models
• Engage enemy tanks at 800 metres and more with the Simulation-level armored vehicle combat
• Fight the full range of combined arms infantry and vehicle combat in detailed environments based on real-world data, from city-centre to deeply rural settings

Should the community expect less from RO2?


Many mods built on RO 41-45, adding even more vehicles, selling additional copies of the game.

The expectations grew...



From PCGamer: [URL]http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/07/red-orchestra-2-updated-and-reset-tripwire-explains-whats-happening/[/URL]

“Within 2 days of the launch of the game it had surpassed the lifetime revenue of the original Red Orchestra that has been selling for over 5 years. The pre-sales and launch week sales of the game broke all company records, even beating out our hit game Killing Floor by a three-fold margin.”



The majority of ppl that purchased RO2 were expecting a combined arms sequel. Where are they now?



From Gameindustry.biz: [URL]http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-03-19-world-of-tanks-monthly-profits-hitting-double-digit-millions[/URL]


"World of Tanks monthly revs hitting double digit millions"



Buyers were expecting vehicles, and got them. 20 million players a month subscribe.

NOTE:
RS is building on those who play infantry combat only, and for that I'm glad. (though there was tank in the beta). Someday, RO2 may take some of the pie away from WOT when it delivers on expectations.

BTW, I'm a member of the Vehicle Mod Team.

 

[CocaineInMyBrain]

Lofty expectation???? You tell me watching the marketing and such for RS that people did not expect some sort of combined arms- I mean a mode of a game typically means at least staying at the leading edge of the previous game. RS - lost 2 tanks???? Lofty expectations- hope about baseline expectations bordering on false advertising for pre-order?

I would love to see where the RS devs said vehicles would be included. In fact I'm fairly sure that almost from the start they said vehicles MAY come somewhere down the line much later on, and thats about as close to a "no" as you are going to get. You can assume from pre-renders all you want but ignorance doesn't make evidence for your claims.

And yes your post suggested that the TWI and RS devs weren't ambitious enough because they didn't included x amount of vehicles in game on release. And I'm suggesting that is very flawed thinking since over ambition is what got us the current 2 tanks only situation.

 

[Sullumvoe]

I am sure the community will most likely debate this for some time to come (count me as going back into my cavern of not saying much -I had my say) and civil debate is good for a community- the bottom line - is there a way forward? or is it best just to move on? I think that is all I really want to get to the truth and an answer on. It would be preferable to build a constructive effort here. Either the communities mourns the loss of combined arms with 2nd gen RO-HOS/RS and moves onto a new project or we try and fix that which is.

I know there is an effort with the Cry engine- and I have explored that. However we need to establish some common goals within the community. Is the love-in with TWI now officially over? Can RO3 become a community project or does it need to be monetized again. Seems like the most success to date was Darkest Hour which was a community project for the most part.

So does the community splinter and reform elsewhere (or has it already), or does it continue to congeal around the TWIlight. Personally given some of the details that we have uncovered, I think the RS outcome will be the harbinger of a new landscape for realism based FPS and the term realism and combined arms will be culturally rewelded into the virtual genre- and hopefully permanently. Yes it seems the UE3 engine transformed the realism beast, but it will fly again some day soon with much bigger wings - as there is a market there. Halfway between COD and Arma there is a small pot of gold (maybe a large one if it is done right), the question is, who will tame this beast for the masses? I am thinking it may be time for the community to make that decision loud and clear, so that we will not get into this space with the next ground swell of like minded that take on the task.

 

[TrOOper]

I commend TWI for providing us a game with so much potential. That being said ,RO1 didnt turn into DH overnight....At this point we are left wondering what if anything will TWI do to continue to improve RO2. I think many of us had hopes for more vehicles. Instead we got RS. Im not going to complain as i think RS has provided a welcome boost to the game. The community group which is working on vehicles has been in effect for at least 10 months (based on their first post) but has yet to roll out anything other than teasers. I hope sooner rather than later we shall see something substantial from them. I realize they are a "community" group doing this on their own time and i applaud them for doing so.

That being said, I still think that vehicles are the key for taking RO2 to the next level. It will allow for bigger maps which allow a much better representation for the weapons, movement speed and many other things people complain about.

Let us hope we see things continue to develop while we still have a community to play them.

 

[gyps]

In relation to combined op's having more vehicles its not a question of if we get it ? - it's simply a question of when ?

It's gunna happen thats not me speaking for TWI but this me speaking as part of the vehicle mod team, but like all good things this takes time and effort - we as a group are making progress but it's not gunna happen over night, you've already seen post fromTWI saying that tanks/vehicles are difficult to implement and take lots of time - well if it takes professionals time, its gunna take a mod team a bit longer.

But we will get there

And those that think TWI doesn't care about vehilces are talking out of their asses,

 

[Mike_Nomad]

I commend TWI for providing us a game with so much potential. That being said ,RO1 didnt turn into DH overnight....At this point we are left wondering what if anything will TWI do to continue to improve RO2. I think many of us had hopes for more vehicles. Instead we got RS. Im not going to complain as i think RS has provided a welcome boost to the game. The community group which is working on vehicles has been in effect for at least 10 months (based on their first post) but has yet to roll out anything other than teasers. I hope sooner rather than later we shall see something substantial from them. I realize they are a "community" group doing this on their own time and i applaud them for doing so.

That being said, I still think that vehicles are the key for taking RO2 to the next level. It will allow for bigger maps which allow a much better representation for the weapons, movement speed and many other things people complain about.

Let us hope we see things continue to develop while we still have a community to play them.

RO2 holds so much promise.....

 

[MeFirst]

RO2 holds so much promise.....

And so far that is all it does.