Decision not to go Combined Arms- TWIlight

[Clowndoe]

Seems like glass half full to me. Instead of either (A) waiting for tanks and not having a game or (B) having rushed tanks and a broken game I have a fun infantry game to hold me over for tanks, which as far as I know may or may not come.

Besides, people already have a problem with balance, can you imagine if they had to make sense out of Chi-Ha vs M3 Stuarts or, God forbid, M4 Shermans?

 

[LugNut]

The reason I never play in tanks has nothing to do with leveling, it might matter to others, but not me. The reason I don't play as a tank is due to the size of the maps, tank play seems even more repetitive than infantry. Think about Commissar's, Pavlovs and the other stock CA maps. Spawn, drive to the same point A on the map you always go to because it has good lines of fire, you're semi protected and blast away until you die or move up to point B. Respawn and repeat. Etc. The maps are too small to vary where you can go too much, plus they're urban keeping you confined.

If you could carry troops, there'd also be incentive to ramble around more and give more meaning to the role.

I'll jump on a server with tank maps if I see others on it, that's way more fun and I wish they had infantry as well. Tank only is less fun.

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

From my memory, the early versions of UT2k4 did not have vehicles. Are you sure? RO did not have vehicles when I started playing. By the time it won the contest, it was RO:CA, yes.

I know it was very early on in development that the vehicles came along and it was before the contest was over.... later on in another patch, something like 3.1 or 3.2, they fixed the speeds and turn rates for the vehicles, the Panther, IS2, KV1, etc. all came out as well.

Records back then seem to be hard to find these days so I can only go by memory.

The best RO maps, though, have always been infantry, but that's just personal opinion. Black Day in July for RO1 gets an honourable mention and so does Leningrad (we can do that in RO2 though- we have T34's and PIV's).

For me.... Personally.... the best maps for me back in the mod days was Karlovka, Kharkov, Barashka, Kalinin and others that had the CA element of the game, where just about every aspect the mod offered was used in those maps.

The classics like Jucha, Rostov, Moscow Highway, Tula Outskirts, Kurland Kessel, Basovka, Stalingrad Kessel, Kaukasus, Danzig, Ponyri, Sevastopol, etc have been ALL INFANTRY.

And there were many more that were Combined Arms.

So yes Praxius, the roots of RO are infantry. To deny that fact is....beyond stupid. Surely you are smarter than that...

Yeah... stupid.... that's why the variety of tanks, vehicles, having AT Classes & Engineers was so little in ROCA and RO1.... that's why ROCA was really called ROIC (Red Orchestra Infantry Combat)

To deny the fact that Vehciles/Tanks have been an integral part of the game & its popularity over the years and that many players came into RO because of them is what's "Beyond Stupid".... as proven by many other's own words in here, including my own.

Matter of perspective I guess.

 

[ARMY guy]

I started playing ro when it was retail in a store, so not the UT mod and i dont even remember tanks or vehicles as they were either never used or not on the maps i played, so i guess i wasnt missing anything when ro2 only had 2 tanks. I do love the rendered insides of the current tanks however, and it actually made me stop playing battlefield, i cant go back to that style of vehicle. I put up with it in planet side 2 because of the other draws of the game.

 

[gyps]

Combined maps were the best, there was something for everyone


Who else remembers hiding in rubble somewhere with a panzerfuast waiting for a nice unsuspecting tank to come along

 

[>F|R< Sarcinelli]

I was playing RO2 last night and saw 2 interesting questions:

"Wasn't there supposed to be tanks in this game?"

"What's the use of the anti-tank class?" - to what someone else responded: "They're great for picking up infantry on the distance!"

So basically we are sitting with half a game right now because the vehicular combat is not working as intended (or is it?) and it's not like we're getting official support anytime soon (if at all). Tanks are a pushing feature and CA is one of the things that differentiates RO from other games in the genre, I wish it could receive more attention.

 

[Yoshiro]

The tanks are there, but many servers run with tanks off (which is an option).

 

[gyps]

The tanks are there, but many servers run with tanks off (which is an option).

which i suppose begs the question why turn tanks OFF


This is not a dig at anyone - just asking some question


Is it that the maps are too small and make tank to tank ineffective, will they come into their own when larger maps come and they have transports and other tanks to hunt

Or maybe it's that the only thing that tanks can do make to a real difference is sit and spawn camp as many do on the servers that have them enabled - is not unusaul to have one tank sat at allied spawn and the other camping axis and making no attempt to attack each other
This would change if we ever get panzerfaust in game

Was it the intail problems with tanks AI bots,

Is it the not being able to leave the tank at all

Is it just personal peferance of the servers owners, although most server owners go with whats popular with thier users

many of the ro combined maps had simular narrow playing area's but were still loved, tanks and all. lennigrad and zoo come to mind, true the overall map may have been a bit longer but width wise lennigrad was basically a single street.

Like i said at the top I'm interested in why people dont seem keen on tanks now, they were a big part of the other game to the extent that we had dedicated tanks maps were you had to be brave to go infantry as it was much tougher than using a tank( many still choose to do this )

Without a doubt the current tanks are beautifully modeled and detailed, and Yoshiro said they took a long time to make each one & that was why they were put on back burner - to enable a sensible release date

there will be more tanks etc, the vehicle mod team with TWI kind help will make sure that happens

 

[Vapid]

At release, someone (Yoshi? John?) said that each tank variant took around 3 - 6 months to design, model and test. Not sure about light vehicles, but presumably a similar timespan.

As has been said, the focus has been shifted elsewhere (including, bizarrely, the Pacific) and so it seems new vehicles are off the menu.

RO2 clearly isn't going to spawn a DH2. That's unfortunate; it's not to say that the infantry side of things isn't great (it is), but TWI have decided to move on to other things despite a sizeable (and much requested) aspect of the base game being... well, missing?

 

[CocaineInMyBrain]

RO2 clearly isn't going to spawn a DH2. ?

You do know that a "DH2" has been in development for some time now right? Obviously not from TWI

 

[groopo]

The main reason tanks aren't popular is map design. Not necessarily bad map design, but map design that either favours infantry too much or doesn't give tankers many options on where to go.

Commisar's House is a classic example: tanks are pretty much restricted to two lanes on either side of the map. All anyone needs to do to get rid of the enemy's tank is to say "tank right" or "tank left" and everyone will know instantly where it is, since those are the only two places it could be.

Pavlov's house is arguably worse, as tanks are pretty much restricted to the open area around C.

 

[Andreson]

The main reason tanks aren't popular is map design. Not necessarily bad map design, but map design that either favours infantry too much or doesn't give tankers many options on where to go.

Commisar's House is a classic example: tanks are pretty much restricted to two lanes on either side of the map. All anyone needs to do to get rid of the enemy's tank is to say "tank right" or "tank left" and everyone will know instantly where it is, since those are the only two places it could be.

Pavlov's house is arguably worse, as tanks are pretty much restricted to the open area around C.

What about Barashka?
That is something I think we all LOVE!

 

[groopo]

Historically accurate tanking in RS would be a flop, seeing as the Japanese never fielded any tanks that could even remotely compete with the Sherman.

 

[Twrecks]

From my memory, the early versions of UT2k4 did not have vehicles... ...the roots of RO are infantry...

Wrong on both accounts. Very poor memory doesn't make other ppl stupid. Vehicles are what made RO great, and what made UT2004's onslaught gametype so popular. Don't confuse UT2003 as an "early UT2004", or RO for UT99. It might be wrongly said RO2 had it's FPS roots in Doom. <jk>Doom didn't have vehicles, so RO2 doesn't need them either.</jk>

IMHO Vehicles make for a better combat game. Personally, if I wanted to play Deathmatch (FF), I wouldn't play RO2. Think GTA with only two cars that get very limited use, that's my take on the current state of RO2.

 

[peumobil]

wrong on both accounts. Very poor memory doesn't make other ppl stupid. Vehicles are what made ro great, and what made ut2004's onslaught gametype so popular. Don't confuse ut2003 as an "early ut2004", or ro for ut99. It might be wrongly said ro2 had it's fps roots in doom. <jk>doom didn't have vehicles, so ro2 doesn't need them either.</jk>

imho vehicles make for a better combat game. Personally, if i wanted to play deathmatch (ff), i wouldn't play ro2. Think gta with only two cars that get very limited use, that's my take on the current state of ro2.

+1

 

[Vapid]

You do know that a "DH2" has been in development for some time now right? Obviously not from TWI

Yep.

 

[Panzer667]

also one other fatal flaw, I was hoping for the campaign to come true I mean you guys advertised a guy sitting in a boat real (gameplay) with other guys and in that ad at the beginning there was a book with a bunch of things and it looked like a campaign from the user perspective the jap was there and so was the marine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hhFbFU3JrU

now if this is not made by you please say so but I think it is

I make my point

 

[Panzer667]

Where are zi tanks!?!

 

[Yoshiro]

As this thread illustrates, some people played RO (the mod or the game) for infantry, some for combined arms, and some for tanks only.

We know that and keep it in mind as we work towards our updates. But as I also said, we have taken a new approach (which is much more similar to how we handled RO the mod) in which we are focuses in smaller, more polished releases now then aiming to grab everything in one go.

 

[Randy Newman]

Wrong on both accounts. Very poor memory doesn't make other ppl stupid. Vehicles are what made RO great, and what made UT2004's onslaught gametype so popular. Don't confuse UT2003 as an "early UT2004", or RO for UT99. It might be wrongly said RO2 had it's FPS roots in Doom. <jk>Doom didn't have vehicles, so RO2 doesn't need them either.</jk>

IMHO Vehicles make for a better combat game. Personally, if I wanted to play Deathmatch (FF), I wouldn't play RO2. Think GTA with only two cars that get very limited use, that's my take on the current state of RO2.

....I just disagree. Perhaps the early Ut2K4 version did have vehicles, I just remember that when I was playing, there were no vehicles in RO.The only vehicle I enjoyed in UT2K4 was the Manta (clipping people FTW )

Also- I disagree that "vehicles are what made RO great" but judging by this forum community, I am a in a minority here. I can accept that. I remember playing RO for the first time and being struck by the fact that there were no crosshairs, my rifle was a 1 hit kill and it focused on a conflict that I knew little about at the time. I was sold. To me, RO has always been about the tension filled infantry combat.

As Praxius said- it's a matter of perspective. In all my years of playing RO, I have barely touched any vehicles.