Well I actually paid $49.99 myself for the DDE.... it's irrelevant as even if you paid the $99.99 for CoDMW3 (which is the cost for that game here where I live) it still doesn't give you the right to dictate or rage on about how the game should be designed.
So you are a long way off your $20 mark.
Again, we didn't pay to own the game, we don't have shares in the company, we paid for a license to legally play the game.... that's it.
Mate that does not give a software developer the right to not provide what they commercially advertised? or take as long as they like under that unbrella to fix it "when they get a chance"
When retailing anything... both the customer and the manafactuer (or retailer) have to be reasonable when it comes to them fixing a product which does not function. is 3 months reasonable? are polls on what should be fixed reasonable when it is still not fixed?
The fact that Tripwire and/or other Game Devs bother to listen to their communities at all is by their own good graces and they're not obligated to do so.
They have a obligation under the Law to provide a product that works a advertised. That is the Law.
*64 players: Not working correctly
*Multiplayer: Server browser not functioning as should be.
*un-playable: Hit register issues make it so for alot of people
*Content promised in advertising: online campaign no supplyed.
* promised realism: (not a problem for me too much... more for those that want it to be exactly like RO1 but with better graphics.)
*Very poor Single player: MOHAA had better AI... and it is 2011. thats poor.
*Minimum specs: well... there is still work to be done... but most games are guilty of min specs being a bit un realistic.
So it is not simply they dont listen.... they never provided at the point of sale, and yet to fix it.
I have no real problem with that issue.. but 3 months... i understand they are a smaller company... but they have asked for more the double the last game, and purchased commercial advertising. (meaning this is not some word of mouth game mod come Game)
And if people don't like that, they can refuse to give them money for their next game.
That makes no sense? people like htis game they want it fixed... we should not diverge from the issue of the thread.... That is offering a poll for us to make choices on what they should fix or be ready for the next patch is ridiculous, when there are still major issues.
There are 2 main points which you have avoided in these drawn out semantic posts.
1* I did not buy a game to be made by a commitee. I bought it because i liked the last game... so why are they having polls on what they should fix first? how can they not know?
2* The game should be fixed 64 players and hit register issues before any sort of poll is released to have the game made by commitee. (including getting the SDK out)
So? They are still limited by the amount of employees they have to work on the game and even if they made a billion dollars in a weekend, that doesn't magically mean they can whip out changes and additional content at a snap of a finger. If they can afford to hire on more coders and designers, it still takes time to train those new employees to meet the standards and consistency required to contribute decently to improving their game(s).
This is interesting.... because isnt they stro magnus who releases the patches a new employee fixing the game? i read that in one of the posts... so they did hire someone... not sure though...
Having a bunch of reviews and interviews in gaming magazines doesn't make them anymore capable of grinding patches and content out the door faster.
again irrelevant. no one made any mention of game reviews... i didnt.... commercial advetrising i did mention.... and i assure i am not confusing the 2.
The bottle neck is manpower and time.
If Tripwire had 100-200 employees working exclusively on RO2, we'd have patches flying at us with not just performance improvements, but they'd also have most of the content people are demanding already added into the game by now.
But they're not Valve and they're not Electronic Arts.
If i had a magic genie i would wish for a naked megan fox doing cartwheels through my computer room door...
No one is saying they need to expand there comapnay.
All i am saying is that the 3 months and no fixes for some majors issues still excisting is too long. It simply is not good enough. and there hinting to some extra content at christmas and it does not look good.
There manpower and company size is not my problem it is theres....especially if they cant get there game fixed.
I'm not excusing them because they're indie or not indie.... I'm just being realistic that based on the amount of people employed at Tripwire, there is only so much that can be pushed out the door at one time. If the people at Tripwire didn't have to sleep, eat or have families or lives of their own outside of work and if they could just plug themselves away in front of a computer 24/7, you'd probably see a lot more being added into RO2 faster than what we're seeing now.
But that is why we are here to put pressure on them to get more done quicker.
If no one tells them..... I ma not happy hurry up i want the game i paid money for to work.... they might just leave it for all i know?
I get people ringing me all the time to get jobs finished and the more i am harrassed the quicker i get there.... and i am not talking about leisure things like games... but real world around the house stuff you have to use evryday and has to be fixed.... the game should no diffrent.... it is only perceived as being that way as it is a leisurly pursuit. If this was accounting software it would be a diffrent story.... but why should it? software is software? whether i buy it for leisure or work
But they're human beings just like the rest of us and can only do so much. And all of this is compounded by the fact that Tripwire has other games they've developed that require just as much attention.
One second you say they are a small company... and now you are saying they have other games being more importantant than there current release big game they have wokred on for 4 years... hrmmm.
You're right, it makes no difference because you paying a million dollars or those 50,000 people paying $20 have only paid for a license to play the game..... none of you, I or those other 50,000 people paid for total ownership of the game or the company.
Missing the point.. The licence to a product that dosnt work. They have obligations under the licence agreement to provide working software with in a reasonable time frame. It is not a one way street where a company an go and sell licences to something they have no obligation too... other wise it would be a larger ponzi sceme than Berni Madoff
Them listening to the community and taking their feedback into consideration is done by their and any other Game Dev's own graces, yet people have taken that courtesy as being their right to have and turned into a bunch of self-entitled princesses and looking like fools for not knowing how the system works.
I want them to listen to the comunity.
But not conduct polls on to determine what they should work on next.. that is insane.... and not what i paid for because i dont want those princess you talk of hijacking the game... i want to play what TWI want to make but working first.
There is quite a few people on this board who dont want anything else but RO1 with better graphics and a couple of things that they might have liked in the first.... and i think they are wrong... and they are the princess you are taking about i think.
You can voice your anger and frustration all you wish, you can bang pots and pans together, you can walk down the streets with picket signs all you wish.... it doesn't change the reality of the situation.
So you are suggesting do nothing... unlike this passive aggressive post which is semantical and over laden with paragraphs making the same point via another combination of words bamboozling the respondant who then CNBF replying.... i really dont knwo where you find the time.
If you want to accuse someone of being angry and frustrated...fine.
No, your argument is a strawman, because you don't own the game, you paid money for a license to play whatever they give you to play. If it's not to your liking, and if they're not pushing out content and fixes to the speed you expect, stop playing and don't give them money again.... or you can wait until they have the fixes and content ready.
Same conclusion in a diffrent paragraph again i have answered this above... They still have obligations under the licence agreement.
Those are your options and if you don't like that, I can't help you.
Then dont help to get the game fixed quicker and make it more enjoyable for all.... that would be your loss.
They have a self-made obligation to fix the game, and they are fixing it.... but that doesn't mean they should be working over the holidays and be away from their friends & family just to please you. They have every right to take a vacation/holiday like everybody else.
No they have a obligation under the Licence.
And i was never suggesting they should stay away from families at christmas.... but unfortunately people do in there work like the mining industry here is Australia i know people who are dring a truck in WA instead of VIC on christmas day because they are obnligated to in the contract to drive iron ore trucks in the mines. They make good money it is there obligation and they do it.
Sacrafices sometime have to be made... over time and holidays are not my concern when you are in buisness selling a product and you wan it to work and make money... plenty of time once you get it all going.
Yes, they're asking us what in the above poll people would like them to focus the most on next.... just because they're getting feedback from the community on this matter, #1 - that doesn't mean they actually have to do what the majority requests and #2 - that doesn't give you some justification to b*tch them out and make claims of them taking our money and running off to some island or stalling for time, or pulling any other assumption to use to trash them for trying to connect with the community, just because you and others are angry over something and think you have a right to rant off on what you think they're doing inside their office.
So are you saying they dont know what is wrong with the game? and they are asking us?
Cant you see they are asking how they should fix there game... cant you see the ridiculousness of that?
Yeah, well you expecting something doesn't make it so..... but in saying that, Christmas hasn't passed yet and there could still be a surprise in store.
I dont want a suprise... i just want the game working.
And will that make them able to put out this patch in time for christmas?
For all the people in here who seem to be all hardcore fans of RO1, obviously Tripwire knew what they were doing with that game without needed outside help.... their business model worked just fine for RO1 and KF.... RO2 is something new, something that has more beef to it, and as they said in the past, it takes them much longer to make one tank in RO2 than it did in RO1.... so it won't matter what business model they adopted or not, they're still limited by manpower and time.
They are a company who sells licence to there software which is not working completly.
They should have accounted for this in the last 4 years they have been making the game. The operative word (buisness Model) you said it.
They fracked up... they didnt complete it all on time (probably many and vary reasoned why the game was not finished on time.. i dont know why.)
But to rush release, and then not complete the fixes in a reasonable time is not satisfactory.
They have experince, you listed it all. they should have got it right and done it better and i am sure they think the same.
Im sure they will patch things up and the game will run perfect....but when?
I dont wnat to keep playing a game that is not completly fixed get sick off it and there is something new.. and only then is it fixed....it is too late then... noteveryone play a game for 5 years like RO1
If you don't have the patience to wait, then that's your problem.
I suppose you dont get frustrated at the local grocery store when there is on 2 staff and 20 pople waiting to be served.... you just wait... you dont complain under your breath?
Source me that "Promise" ~ I would love to see where they made a written-in-stone promise that you'd get the SDK and additional content before Christmas..... because I never saw such a promise.
There was no promise wirtten in stone.
But it was stated that expected to have some content for christmas.
And they stated (yoshiro) that the SDK should be out early next week...2 weeks ago.
but with still having 64 player issues, hit register etc... players dropping...
And then they spring on us a poll on what we think should be fixed.
To be honest i have been relatively quietly waiting.... but once i saw this poll i saw red. I could not believe they where asking this stuff one week out from christmas. CRAP.
I've even tried to reproduce this hit-reg issue myself using various resolutions and graphical settings and have had no issue hitting anything at any range.
I doubted myself alot witht he hit reg issues...because i am not that great a player. I have good pings, fast enough PC to give a solid 40fps there abouts.
I honestly believe there are massive issues with this.
Predicting your shot is up the shizan
My Thomson modem no longer seems to give me constant issues with staying on a server, my GeForce 210 video card can now handle a pretty good resolution with most of my settings set to ultra or high, I haven't experienced a number of well known glitches for a long time and with every patch released, things have only improved.
I play on high setting then custom some of tem down a bit for some extra FPS. not much.
To be honest the game has run OK for me since beta.. patches have improved it for me too.
But the main one has been hit register....and 64 player... i want both fixed.
I already acknowledged that some issues are still present, but when one accounts for all the known bugs and issues since the Beta, 98% or so of those issues have been addressed.
Unfortantly that is 98% of total bug reports at best.
Does not mean the last 2% are not major like 64 player and hit registeer.
Well hug a rainbow.... they're asking what we'd want them to focus on next as a priority. Nowhere did they make a claim that everything else in the above poll would be abandoned.... they're trying to organize a priority list on what most think should be the more critical things to focus on next.
Simply asking us what needs to be fixed.... i find insulting.
We tell them in the forums what we think needs to be fixed.... they dont provide us with a list of things they can fix and we pick by practically commitee.
Prior to this, Performance and Bug tweaking was the primary focus.... now that they're almost at the end of that road, they're looking at what needs to take priority next.
They never mentioned that they where at the end of the road on performace and bug tweaking? where did they write that?
Even if they could hire an extra dozen or so coders and modelers, it's not going to magically make everything fly out the doors faster, as anybody who is hired are still going to require training and education on what is required for them to make content that meshes with the existing content.
not if they are experienced.
If my career was map design and I have been doing it for years to the point of being my own expert on the subject, if I was hired on by Tripwire, I'd still need to take a few weeks, perhaps even a month to grasp how everything is done in the office..... if I went to EA or Epic, it'd be the same thing.
from the horses mouth.
You said it. If they had gone out and got a few extra people in august when they would have known the game was not going to be 100% they could have had most of the probs solved i assume and some new content and more players may have hanged around.
I've been in Photography for years and I've been working at various sign and advertising companies in both Canada and Australia for the last 6-7 or so years..... and while I have a pretty good understanding of what I do and what is needed in my industry, when I jump onto a new company/employer, I still require time to get used to the new company, how they do things and what their level of quality & expectations are, thus my actual output for the company is reduced during this time due to training.
And if Tripwire hires on a dozen or so new employees, they then have to take a couple of existing employees off from working on RO2 to train these new people, which means output of the patches you're expecting will slow even further for the next little while.
It is not a question of training... but bad buisness managment by TWI. It is that simple. TWI should have there systems in place to avoid all this.
They have experience.
Drama Queen much? If the poll is stupid, then don't vote. Yes, they have said the SDK is close to release and they have been hoping to get it released soon after each notification.... that hasn't happened.
It is a stupid poll....one for the reasons above..second the options are poor as has been mentioned, And i did not vote becasue as above and as well none of the otions fitted my opnion...and even if there where options i am totally against the game being made by commitee. I really do hope TWI take notice and do not heed to the poll.... i really do hope it is a red herring.
And yes, they're going on Holidays.... they don't live in some 3rd world dictatorship, they have every damn right to go on holidays and spend time with their families just like the rest of us.
didnt you menton this earlier?
T
hey're not a bunch of doctors with a patient dying on the operating table, who then take the gloves off and walk away saying they're going on holidays and see you in the new year..... it's a friggin video game and if they don't release a patch or the SDK before christmas..... you'll live.
What if i was dying of a terminal illness and all i wanted was a fully working RO2 and a SDK to help possibly save my life?.... Your comparisons are dreadful.
We paid they supply.
Look Praxius... Dont be so soft on them. put the pressure on them to get the game fixed...make it there obligation haraas them.... especiallay now.
early on... i was patient..
Time for patience is come to a end im afraid my friend.
I heard 29 degrees for today..... either way, for those of us living in warmer climates for the christmas season..... go for a walk on the beach..... learn to knit.
Been a pretty mild summer so far....prefer it too.
also.... i made you my steam friend. dont delete me!! i need all the friends i can get!.
