Dear TWI.... [Long post, get a comfoftable seat and a cup of hot cocoa]

  • Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

Bluntman420

Member
May 21, 2015
336
22
18
Los Angeles
That video of Hans getting three shot was on solo, hard difficulty, and it was endless wave 10...The content creator that left the game was a dude who made a testing map...big whoop lol.

It really sounds like you need to play some HoE. Of course a zed is going to be easy to kill on Hard difficulty and your character is going to be able to take a lot of damage on HARD difficulty, it's the second easiest difficulty in the game. Also, you complain about the game being easy and then suggest that zeds not have the chance to be raged when they spawn?
 

Bluntman420

Member
May 21, 2015
336
22
18
Los Angeles
Basically, ya gotta get used to this point. KF2 is not the same as KF1 and it never will be. It's evolved and mostly for the better.

I do like the darker and more horrorlike atmosphere of KF1 better though :p
 

MartinMasheen

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 7, 2018
38
14
0
25
Alright, I've poured quite a bit of time into both KF1 and KF2, and I feel the need to address this criticism (Idk, I'm bored):

I'm willing to agree with you on one thing: KF2 is easier than KF1, and it's in need of "repairs". The same thing that makes the game attractive this far in its time (outside of the gunplay that we can't get enough of), the constant updates and additions to the game, are also bringing its quality down gradually. I feel the mods aren't assessing the bugs enough with each passing update, though they're at least keeping an eye out. The Spring update was particularly worrisome, since there were many problems that arose after that particular update. and were seemingly tossed aside (and I've little doubt that this isn't the first time anyone was this concerned about an update). But the game itself doesn't offer the same edge as the first one. The first one felt legitimately creepy, shocking, and stressful, but the sequel is a lot more, well, pleasing. Perhaps what you mean to say in that they pander to newcomers is that it feels much more laid back and honestly, there's much less of an intimidation factor. Fleshpounds in the second game compared to Fleshpounds in the first game is what usually pops into my head. I love the Fleshpounds in the original because of their mechanics, I thought they were brilliant and worked really well to cause a panic whenever you saw one. When you see a Fleshpound in the newer game, it's more "Oh god, another problem" than a chill up your spine. And the Bosses (mostly the Abomination, though they've buffed him a bit in the latest update) don't quite offer the same challenge as the classic Patriarch of the first game. But there's a number of ways of looking at this I suppose. After all, if Tripwire wants to focus more on having a good time than beating yourself up, who would blame them? It at least makes sense.

But in a game that's based on a cold, relentlessly repetitious cycle of blood and gore, there has to be more intricacy than that. I'm no professional when it comes to this game, but I have played every difficulty and feel that HoE isn't enough. I can barely struggle through HoE in the first game, but HoE in the second is less demanding for me. Oftentimes I'll resort to a certain perk though (like Zerk for health buffs or Medic for being Medic), but that's another argument. The game has been considerably unbalanced for a long while, but it's hard to push people towards tipping the scale after this long. Seriously though, Medic and Zerk need some work. Medic needs a bit of a healing debuff, because Jesus, it's excessive and the Medic should be a tad bit weaker than they are. Zerks are simply too buff for what they are. Maybe a debuff isn't that necessary, but they made the weapons more expensive to resolve this, and all it really did is make the second wave of a longer game a pain in the arse. Trying to kill an EDAR with a shovel... *groan*. EDAR's another story, but, let's not digress any more.

In regards to the difficulty thing, I just want a little more. They took away Beginner from KF1, and now Normal feels like Beginner, while Hard feels like Normal, etc. There should be a new peak difficulty, and I saw a mod for that called something like "Infernal Nightmare" where Zeds were on fire and Fleshpounds were, err, "elite" using a buff from the VS player Fleshpound. I think the flaming Zeds thing is a little odd (and probably impractical) and the Fleshpounds are nasty as they are (especially when spawned in excess, as they typically do in Suicidal/Hoe... and that's what usually gives me trouble). But the idea itself is interesting. For a highest difficulty, I'd want something that's so difficult, a casual player wouldn't even think about that gamemode, period, and veteran players would only dip their toes in the water every once in a while to jump away hooting and howling. Completing a match in that difficulty should be the most exhilarating experience in the game. Additionally, I believe Fleshpounds should be given a bit of a buff, or maybe even a change in mechanics so they're less of an immediate threat and more immense of a menace, yet more avoidable at the same time. This is what I liked about the original Fleshpound, you needed tactics to navigate around the Pound and prevent it from raging. A rage meant some serious trouble, but in the sequel, even in HoE, it's only trouble if there's more than one on your tail. I'm not saying "there should be a King FP every wave instead of Quarter Pounds," but it's just less intimidating when you get so used to being chased and pummeled. Still stressful, sure, but not the same. Maybe Quarter Pounds could retain the old mechanics and the bigger guys could be changed to act like the originals, but maybe in a way so that they can't be faked out by Zerks or etc.

While tactics were definitely implemented more in the original game, I don't feel like they're necessarily inexistent in KF2. And I'd also argue the opposite for both. Both games have their fair share of freedom. Essentially any perk could deal with a certain Zed if they know their stuff, or use the right weapons. But it's never strictly this perk or that. Supports, Demos, and Sharpies are all capable of dealing with big Zeds in both games. Meanwhile, a Firebug could light up a Fleshpound and cause them to Panic, so they can whip out the Husk Gun and take care of the problem, or a Medic could body block the freak, throw down a couple nades, then tear them up. Each perk has its own techniques for dealing with any Zed, so it's not quite so team oriented as you might think. Obviously, certain perks are more practical, but it's really up to the players, not the game.

You make a point arguing for larger maps, but larger maps actually take away from the gameplay. When Zeds are so spread out and easy to target or navigate around/ away from, the game becomes a cakewalk until Fleshpounds show up. And once that happens, the area is so open and forgiving that it's really not that much of a challenge to deal with. It's interesting, but there's other ways to spice up the battlefield than taking away all the boundaries within the map.

KF2 is easily more intricate than KF1, by the way. There's so much more to it, and that's where most of the problems arise. It's a lot more to balance than what they had in KF1 (which even then wasn't exactly done properly). Many variables to take into account, and a whole lot of differences in Zed mechanics and overall gameplay. And when it comes down to faking out a FP/SC to get the win, it's not any more "complex" than in KF2. In fact, it's essentially an exploit in mechanics, which renders the bigger Zeds useless against you. That's not sophisticated, and if it's intentional, it's poorly executed.

But at the same time, the ceaseless stream of content updates for KF2 is probably what drives players away. They keep introducing more features that change everything, they keep updating things and taking away familiarity, and failing to fix the new problems that show up, usually causing more frustration than satisfaction. I'm still upset about the Doomstick debuff (but at least they're trying to fix that). And honestly, it's not quite as powerful as KF1 was for me for reasons like the Fleshpound mechanics and the threat of the Patty. I mean, in the newer game, similar logic as used for the Fleshpound can be applied to the Patty as well. KF1's Pat had very jarring, shocking, terrific attacks, and they were much less avoidable (especially the melee/charge attacks). You also don't see the healthbar, which I suppose changes the game in some aspects, but that's actually an option you can disable in KF2. Yet sometimes the attacks of the Pat would be unfair or completely unpredictable, and the loss would just be upsetting. On the other hand, KF2 completely failed to replicate the charm of the Objective mode gameplay, literally just throwing in the "Stand Your Ground" mechanics but switching in some welding tasks, and finishing it off by flipping a sprinkler switch a couple times... like, what even? And the design of the level isn't changed, it's just normal survival, which is why it SUCKS so badly. Zeds just spawn on top of you constantly while you're trying to weld (even in Normal it's a nightmare) and typically I'll end up with one Zed left that I have to keep at a distance just so I can finish such a simple task. On Multiplayer, we usually won't finish because one guy won't know to spare the last Zeds before we get to the welding point, and it's just... infuriating. They even threw in an actual Stand Your Ground as part of it, so, figures. To put it simply, the original had a kind of a story to it, it was actually interesting and kind of exciting in terms of the increasingly boring systematic gameplay loop. Did they really not understand why everybody wanted it back? I really hope they do better in the future.

KF2 has buffed the Zeds considerably in the higher difficulties though. Maybe the final boss in single player is a little disappointing at times, but it offers a challenge at least (in HoE). They really aren't as paper-thin as you'd suggest, and if you've spent that much time in KF1, then you should know that the Zeds in there aren't that much different. And their behavior doesn't change like in KF2. They simply get faster. See, you have it twisted. KF2 is definitely the more complex game, but is it complex in a GOOD way? Not exactly. I hope they change my mind in the future.

Trust me, I see the appeal in KF1 vs. KF2, but they both have their pros and cons. I like KF1 for its intensity, but I like KF2 as well.