Danzig

[Capt.Marion]

I've found Danzig to be a huge improvement over mod-era Danzig, and is loads of fun. It only requires one thing: Good teamwork on BOTH PARTS!!! I enjoyed capping and recapping objectivives, plenty of assaulting and defending, especially when we were playing against Russians that actually knew their **** about teamwork... bit of PPS43 spam, but was countered by me single-shot StG44 room-clearing spam...


overall, a wonderful improvement.

 

[Deleted member 6927]

Danzig:

To sum my experience in Danzig...

Danzig is gay.

I enjoyed the gay ol' time so much, I played that ******-assed mother****er for about two goddamn ******-assed hours; Freddy Mercury called me, I told him to **** off.

Lo-Behold; the map is a city map. Choke points? Its a street; no chokepoints? Probably because you're in a house or near the marketplace. Other than that, this is a city map; and it rocks.

I must say; It was playing on the volkshammer server with the nice chaps that play for VH, it was fun kicking them in the keister, until they asked me nicely to come on Allies and help them.

We won; it was fun.

Yeah...The map is very balanced, and has a very enjoyable feel. I am not a DOD fan; and I cannot compare this map to DOD. Why? Its way too goddamn good, and in-depth. How awesome it is to come out of your market and have some homo with a DP - dp'ing your friends! I love it; i just pick the noobtard off..and go on my merry way.


Its all about being a rifle in this map; forget what ya heard about smg's.


Gays.

 

[Rex]

What I can't understand, is that Danzig (like other urban maps) are very small, 3 objectives and it's all over, why can't the urban maps be larger?

well, its a ton of work for one. unlike a rural map, you cant just say, "hey, i'll just plop a 50,000,000 uu wheat field right here. ok......done and done."

for every new area you place in an urban map, you have to painstakingly design every single building and so on and so forth until you are so ready to die that you just give up.

secondly, maps perform badly when they have tons and tons of stuff in them. having a vast yet still marginally convincing urban landscape will kill pretty much anyone's machine, unless the mapper is a total optimization genius, which few are.

in short, making urban maps is a very, very challenging endeavor. trying to make them large enough to contain 5,6, 7 or 10 objectives is even more difficult.

i hate to say this, and i am not trying to tell you to shut up, but if you really want to experience what i am trying to say, take a couple of days to get accustomed to unreal editor and try to map even a single city block. its quite hard but if you give it an honest shot, the RO community will gain a new level designer committed to introducing a new type of map, and that is always a good thing.

 

[MarioBava]

I don't have anything of substance to add to any map design debates, but count me as a fan of the new map Danzig. I like all of Tripwire's maps so far. And I can tell from the level of discussion on the side of Tripwire staff that a lot of work and thought goes into the production and playtesting of these maps. And it shows, imo. This is an all-around excellent game, and that goes for the map design, too-- a great blend of realism (which, I think, anyways is very subjective to begin with) and gameplay on each map! I also like what Jamer said, regarding to be careful how we say some things, to consider their impact, especially when our opinion is not so positive about something. But that applies to every area of life.
My brief, disorganized thoughts on some of the issues that came up:
Size: It feels big enough for me. I Don't always like a map to sprawl over six or seven objectives and miles of streets so that you need an hour to win. Not only do I fear for my system performance in that kind of map, I just think the gameplay suffers (especially with a 32 player limit for servers: I'm not complaining because I don't mind the limit at all but it does affect map design for sure, and I can tell Tripwire is smart enough to think about this)...I like when the gameplay is focused and it doesn't take so long to find an area where there are other players. My first reaction to the thought that it is similar in layout to a DOD:S map is that no, it's much more roomy than the average DOD:S map and this goes a long way to making a difference. I could be wrong. I just don't get that DOD feeling, but mostly that is because this is not DOD:S, not in style or in substance.
Grenades: I don't have a problem, except when I am freshly torn to bits by one! No, really, I didn't have any problems with the grenades on this map. There's enough cover and enough ways around, and quite frankly grenades are a legitimate tactic as far as I'm concerned.
Visuals: Very nice. The first couple times I played I found it too tempting to just ogle the scenery.

 

[Vakichev]

Thats definitely a problem I have with it, its size and the fact it just doesn't conjure up the image of a brutal and epic urban fight.

It does for me, but the problem for the russian team is 99% of the time teamwork. I've noted that maps that require more than a little teamwork are very difficult to play on pub.

 

[fiftyone]

What I can't understand, is that Danzig (like other urban maps) are very small, 3 objectives and it's all over, why can't the urban maps be larger?

Just take a look at the work and detail that have gone into the map.
There is nothing out there to compare it with.
Its in a league of its own, and it works !

I bet it took about five months to build !
As far as this maps concerned, you can all call me fanboy if you want !

 

[MattyDienhoff]

The amount of small detail on this map is INCREDIBLE. All the posters sheets paper wine bottles scattered everywhere make it seem like people really lived there.

Not to mention the wagons piled with belongings, civilians fleeing the Soviet advance, perhaps?

I've played it about 6 times now, on both sides, and I really enjoy the map. True, it doesn't seem quite as natural as many of the others, (the stuck boat in such a convienient place, for example) but it's a small issue.

Overall I really enjoyed the map. And Tripwire, it's every bit as pretty as you said it would be.

 

[WhiteMeat]

Matty!! !

I played this a few times last night, truthfully, the level is quite simply stunning in its detail, but it just didnt grab me. Mind you though, i do prefer the rural infantry only maps - so i think it is just me.

Outstanding work TWI.

 

[Zell]

Today I was holed up in that building next to the russian spawn as a german with a G43 for about 10 minutes, fighting off russians. It was so much fun. That map is amazing.

 

[Zbojnik]

Welcome to Urban combat. Chokepoints and nades.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

yeah but it feels like the battle is all damned nades, sorta like what warsaw would be if everyone got nades. i would prefer to see danzig edited to give each person 1 nade

 

[Vakichev]

The thing is, we should consider ourselves lucky, we got a great community here, we got dev's who actually listen to us and we get free, FREE I TELLS YA !! updates...you see this anywhere else ?

I'm always happy with the free stuff, other dev's would say:"he you guys want new content ? PAY UP !!"

No offense, and hell i'm satisifed with this patch as much as everyone else is. But i've yet to see any company other than EA charge for 2 tanks, bugfixes, and two new maps. The day a company pulls an EA is the day i stop paying all attention to them and future products of theirs. On another note, I will say this: if teamwork can be done, danzig is fun, however without the teamwork, you'd better get in first so you can get the german team!!!

 

[MattyDienhoff]

It wasn't all grenades the 5 times I've played it, there were only a lot of grenades at the very start at the bridge, as soon as we got across it was full-fledged infantry combat, a lot of shooting and less grenades.

Matty!! !

 

[Afterburner]

yeah but it feels like the battle is all damned nades, sorta like what warsaw would be if everyone got nades. i would prefer to see danzig edited to give each person 1 nade

The real battle probaly did have alot of nades gonig back and forth. Very common weapons during urban combat.

I absolutely LOVE this map. I think it is easily the best infantry map, especially now that the MGs are as awesome as they are. The only annoying thing is when your sniper doesn't do his job properly when ffighting over the river crossing, as their sniper can then easily control that area.

 

[Solo4114]

It's an improvement over the original, but still feels small to me. Not a favorite of mine, although for what it is it's very well done. I think it's a well done map, I just prefer less random craziness and more deliberate combat. Maybe things will settle down when people have had a chance to get used to the map. Last night it felt more like people just doing the run 'n' gun thing a lot.

The bridges did seem to get captured faster, and the added tunnels and such help prevent total map lockdown, which is nice. But to some degree, the map seems....porous. Like you can run to pretty much anywhere from like 27 different entrances. Makes defending a position difficult at times for both sides.

Personally, I never missed the map, although there's VERY few maps that I actually miss from the mod (the exception being Maikop and one or two of its variants, but that wasn't an official map).

 

[Crusher]

aaah, maikop...it was a nice map alright

 

[DieFledermaus]

Does Danzig need some tweaking?

I would say it would benefit from some.

We may have stumbled upon a bug on that map.

Last night there was some guy named Muffinman. Or Muffin Man. He was laying down with a 44 killing Reds left and right as they tried to come over the WestBridge. NO ONE COULD KILL HIM. I shot him several different times from different angles. I even dropped a nade right on him, which got me kicked for too many TKs because I took out like four of my guys who were trying to kill him.

He may have been cheating of course. But he may have found a bug area in the map – similar to the place on Koitos in the Radio House, where lying between the downstairs bed and the stair well makes one impervious to grenades and smoke nades vanish through the floor.

Just thought I would mention that in case it was a bug in the Danzig map.

The spot he was lying on was between the tall, stone river wall and the WestBridge, where there are some boxes and if you turn to the right as you come over the bridge you would pass through that spot on the way to the area behind the wall, which runs along the water. He could shoot at people near the vehicle stuck on the bridge and he could swivel around to fire on people near the buildings on the East Bridgehead.

* * *

Otherwise, I played Danzig last night for hours, some 30-40 rounds on two 24/7 servers.

The first had the map start over immediately, the other loaded every three rounds which required signing up again for team and role.

I entered the first server with a quip saying "Ah Danzig, my old arch nemesis. We meet again." That got a few sympathetic chuckles from old timers. I always loved that map even if the opening “barrage” made it frustrating for the Russians.

As for the new map, I LOVE the artwork. In some places it reminds of the original mod version, as if we are now seeing it later in the war when another round of fighting is sweeping back through the same region.

As for the important changes, I particularly like the redesigned interiors, which allow for many more places to hide, sneak through or be shot in the back from someone doing the sneaking.

BUT

I must say, for all the gut wrenching close combat experiences, I think this version tips the scales into the German’s favor way too much.

Before people respond to that statement, let me say this:

On the second server I played twenty-five rounds before the Russians won one round.

TWENTY-FIVE.

People came and went, I started as a German then went to Russian after five or six rounds to see if I could rally the Reds. I eventually took over as Squad Leader and we finally won a round about five rounds after that.

But T W E N T Y - F I V E rounds without a Russian victory says something.

On the first server the Russians were winning fairly often, but still not near equal portions.

Why is this? Well it seems to me it can be summed up this way – they now have two bridgehead zones to cap, meaning they must split their attacking force or try to beat the clock by sweeping one and then the other, while the Germans have more avenues of approach, and more places from which to set up devastating cross fire – due partly to the new and improved right flank building with its upstairs window and a downstairs that allows the Germans to be in the cap zone without actually stepping out onto the bridgehead. There are other interiors along the East Bridgehead that are in the cap zone as well.

Oh, and that first Red victory was not even a matter of taking the objectives, both sides were down to 0 reinforcements and the Russians killed the last German.

The CommandCenter has so many entrances in the house and places to hide outside in the cap that it is extremely difficult to hold it for any length of time. This means the Reds must coordinate in a major way to succeed in getting those back two caps.

The Market capzone, on the other hand, seems easier to cap because of the maze of walls and sandbags allowing defilade from sharpshooters in the caf

 

[Athena]

BUT

I must say, for all the gut wrenching close combat experiences, I think this version tips the scales into the German’s favor way too much.

Before people respond to that statement, let me say this:

On the second server I played twenty-five rounds before the Russians won one round.

TWENTY-FIVE.

People came and went, I started as a German then went to Russian after five or six rounds to see if I could rally the Reds. I eventually took over as Squad Leader and we finally won a round about five rounds after that.

On the server I was (Danzig 24/7 too), yesterday, ruskies won 90% of the time... Statements like yours while being correct, only reflect the server population at a given time not the map balance in general. just my opinion.

 

[Coey]

Russians have won everytime I've played the map.

IMO, this map kinda ****s. I haven't had one good firefight, most of the time it's either smoke grenade everything, or a boring meatgrinder.

I was defending that wine building cellar place for a good few minutes and It was just "meh". I don't feel pressured at all ever on Danzig. Nothing like the Apartments on Odessa. I probably need to play it more and find out where the fighting is 'cos it certainly ain't where I've been.

 

[Zbojnik]

DieFledermaus I was playing on the server with you, when Muffinman arrived. I expended 3 magazines and 6 nades on him and he didn't die.