Custom Maps - Qualification Board & Forced Download

[ColdAs1c3]

Oh dear...


i.e the few ones currently running custom maps now.

Without the QB this stays the same. With the QB if the map is accepted (it most likely will be) all servers will play because nearly everyone uses the default map rotation.

Lets simplify that further so I am sure you will understand.

The current situation:
Few servers play custom maps, the ones that do are not populated often.
Lets pick a custom map and name it custom map A.

Withe the proposal:
Lets assume custom map A is accepted by the QB.
Custom map A is now a forced download for everyone (about 100mb)
Custom map A now gets played on the majority of servers, not the minority.
More community maps, yet still the servers that play the most custom maps - the "high quality custom map servers" a. still have their quality redirects and b. still have a large variety of custom maps to play on

Wasting your time replying. He doesn't grasp that this proposal has zero effect on custom maps currently being played on server providing custom content.

 

[Mike_Nomad]

Wasting your time replying. He doesn't grasp that this proposal has zero effect on custom maps currently being played on server providing custom content.

Ah yes...... I grasp one thing... a pending power play. Attack me all you wish. Outstanding and perfect for furthering the cause.

Meanwhile, I'll go back to playing Coldsteel and all the other great custom maps........

 

[ColdAs1c3]

Ah yes...... I grasp one thing... a pending power play. Attack me all you wish. Outstanding and perfect for furthering the cause.

Meanwhile, I'll go back to playing Coldsteel and all the other great custom maps........

I wonder when it's going to click that no-one that supports this idea is trying to remove that right from you?

 

[Moskeeto]

I wonder when it's going to click that no-one that supports this idea is trying to remove that right from you?

Reminds me of how some people act toward a certain sociopolitical issue.

 

[CocaineInMyBrain]

Someone please explain the huge fuss over this.

What I understand about the proposal

-popular user maps goes through a QA process and then eventually into an official content patch of sorts

Now what exactly in this is stopping individual servers from keeping their own redirects, or even harming said redirects/servers? You still run what maps you want regardless of whether said map was included in an official content patch, and I fail so see what would stop you. If your redirect speeds are good then there is no foreseeable reason why people would leave your server when theres a map you have to download Maybe there's some grander Machiavellian logic to this but I don't see it.

If there's so much concern over playing favorites and politics then simply put the choice of maps to be included to the community at large through polls.

 

[Mike_Nomad]

Someone please explain the huge fuss over this.

What I understand about the proposal

-popular user maps goes through a QA process and then eventually into an official content patch of sorts

Who makes the decision on what maps get approved?

Why fix what isn't broken? Everyone of you acknowledge that the ReDirect Works and the good Servers have the customs in play.

How many remember how great Winterwald USED to be?

Too many cooks....

Now what exactly in this is stopping individual servers from keeping their own redirects, or even harming said redirects/servers?

Different versions of the same map - will result.

 

[CocaineInMyBrain]

Who makes the decision on what maps get approved?

Why fix what isn't broken? Everyone of you acknowledge that the ReDirect Works and the good Servers have the customs in play.

How many remember how great Winterwald USED to be?

Too many cooks....



Different versions of the same map - will result.

Perhaps a petition to encourage TWI to fully optimize SWS is in order

 

[Mike_Nomad]

Perhaps a petition to encourage TWI to fully optimize SWS is in order

Perhaps...... but SWS file size limits are a killer <-200mb.

 

[ButchCassidy]

Who makes the decision on what maps get approved?

TWI or even other mappers themselves, maybe a few of contest winners.

Why fix what isn't broken? Everyone of you acknowledge that the ReDirect Works and the good Servers have the customs in play..

How many more times must you be told that this proposal has nothing to do with running redirects or even custom maps on a server.
It has everything to do with allowing mappers to release their work into an official patch that will allow all players to enjoy their work.

How many remember how great Winterwald USED to be?.

No people don't because before the map pack release only a small minority of people had played it but now its part of the game its a very popular map.
No redirect, no sws, patched into the game, see how it works?

Too many cooks.....

Have you actually read any of the posts?
A set QA standard would be published a mapper then has the "CHOICE to submit a map or continue to keep it as a custom map.
So a mapper has a choice, something you appear to want to deny them.
Under your "don't fix what ain't broke" attitude mappers will have no choice at all.
How does that benefit their work or allow the whole community to appreciate it?
Under this proposal they can submit their work to a group of their own peers with a view to it making an official stock custom map.

Different versions of the same map - will result.

Not if a map is patched to become stock.
Yet another benefit of this proposal.

 

[gyps]

Mike no one taking anything away from you, no one stopping your re-direct

What it is doing is adding more choice for all servers to run custom stuff

WHo decides ? - I know what your worries could be on this is that some of the least pretty maps have the best play and could be dropped - I would imagine there will be a set of guidlines that applies - ie has to support so many players, other than common sense will dicide which maps go in - any maps that are rejected would recieve info on why and would be able to be re-submitted, bearing in mind that this would be a group decission so it wont be one man's like or dislikes.

Many drop leave on custom stuff now, which is a shame if we all have the same versions then anyone can run these, the proof this works is since the map pack people play the maps where as when they just customs lots wouldn't.

The only problem is see with this is that all will have to download all the custom stuff - And i'm not sure if RO does incremental updates or whether we have to download the whole thing - going on past sizes tends to be the whole thing - so updates arent going to be every few days but weeks or a month or so apart.

I still haven't seen a comment yet from the dev's on this, but my guess is they will have almost certainly discussed this, this would be a community lead project as we would have to sort out whats sent, and resolve issues before they're sent for approval etc as TWI may be willing to add them to downloads but not sort out issues which is fair enough.

 

[Mike_Nomad]

TWI or even other mappers themselves, maybe a few of contest winners.

Really, who and how many do the choosing?
​

How many more times must you be told that this proposal has nothing to do with running redirects or even custom maps on a server.
It has everything to do with allowing mappers to release their work into an official patch that will allow all players to enjoy their work.

Don't get snotty with me, its unbecoming of you... The quality servers with fast working redirects are what this is all about. After all, they already allow mappers to release their work into the community thus allowing all players wanting to play custom maps to enjoy their work. Or, hadn't you noticed in your bellicose pursuit of power?
​

No people don't because before the map pack release only a small minority of people had played it but now its part of the game its a very popular map.

That is plainly a fallacy. Patently untrue - A figment of someone's imagination. The piss poor and highly intrusive SWS performance, inexperienced admins, poor GSP's and garbage redirects have done more to cause users to shy away because of all the lousy experiences they've suffered. That is the TRUTH!
​

No redirect, no sws, patched into the game, see how it works?

You left one other result out.... Play what WE want you to play and play the map the way we want you to play it. After all, the person(s) deciding which maps get "released" do so with dictatorial powers.

The way it is now, we play the maps as the mappers DESIGNED them to play NOT as some pompous bureaucrat(s) decide it should play.
​

Have you actually read any of the posts?
A set QA standard would be published a mapper then has the "CHOICE to submit a map or continue to keep it as a custom map.
So a mapper has a choice, something you appear to want to deny them.
Under your "don't fix what ain't broke" attitude mappers will have no choice at all.
How does that benefit their work or allow the whole community to appreciate it?
Under this proposal they can submit their work to a group of their own peers with a view to it making an official stock custom map.

There you go again, getting snotty, actually, you KNOW I am reading each and every word..... Truth be known again..."DON'T FIX WHAT AIN'T BROKEN!" & "TOO MANY COOKS SPOIL THE SOUP!!" Are quite appropriate here. Of course I already said that and you chose to talk down to me and mock my words. That's all good as it proves you have no factual, concrete fail-safe answer.
​

Not if a map is patched to become stock. Yet another benefit of this proposal.

And then we see the users confronted with those servers choosing not to run the "modified" or should I say, "modifried" maps. Thus the advent of numerous versions of a map in circulation.

Whatever butch...... whatever.... When will we all know the real reasons for all this hullabaloo over this senseless and useless layer of bureaucracy. Apparently, EGO and POWER over the MAPPERS & ADMINS and especially SERVER CONTENT are the obnoxiously obvious reasons cloaked in smoke and mirrors about "everything will be wonderful". Its really nothing but a control freak scheme.
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You have no idea how many users, of those who are left, (6500 down to less than 1800 avg. in less than four weeks) see right through this BS. This nonsensical effort is a telltale sign of futile thinking in the face of a failing platform. You of all people, like myself and a few others here, have seen this before at least twice. Trouble is, I do not have a short memory.

@ All
We WILL wind up with multiple versions of maps. There is no talking around that FACT.

Constant meddling in the creation of maps is courting disaster. Just look at what happened with Winterwald.... when it was first released everyone loved it. It was a challenge, an exciting challenge. EVERYONE Loved it!! ...Now, its a bore. (truth)

I say "HANDS OFF!!" What we have now works and works well!

 

[Ducky]

--SNIP--
I say "HANDS OFF!!" What we have now works and works well!

And that will still work if this suggestion would make it into RO2

 

[Mike_Nomad]

Originally Posted by Mike_Nomad
--SNIP--
I say "HANDS OFF!!" What we have now works and works well!

And that will still work if this suggestion would make it into RO2

THAT........ Remains to be seen. What about the issue conflicting versions of a map in circulation and the watering down of maps?

I still say; "DON'T FIX WHAT AIN'T BROKEN!" & "TOO MANY COOKS SPOIL THE SOUP!!"

 

[Ducky]

THAT........ Remains to be seen. What about the issue conflicting versions of a map in circulation and the watering down of maps?

It would do us all good if mappers would stabalize their map development at one point and not to update them all the time. Sure fixes will still be needed now and then, but that is also covered in Thor's proposal. If the development is stabalized and the map is polished, then why not add them into the game? I understand your point of forced changes by the QB, but that would depend on how the QB will look like. As for now we don't know. It's still just a proposal and I personally believe that it should be given a try. Not now, because many things will still need to be worked out. One of them should be how the QB would look like. And what rule set will be used to allow a map to pass or not. And remember, those that didn't pass can still be played using a redirect.

Edit:

I still say; "DON'T FIX WHAT AIN'T BROKEN!" & "TOO MANY COOKS SPOIL THE SOUP!!"

It's not a fix. It's an improvement!

 

[Randy Newman]

Mike...

Never have I read someone as wrong as you on this issue.

I could type up my own reasoning, but I think Ducky and ButchCassidy summed it up well.

Nothing that works as it does now changes...

Are you just pissed that TWI shouldn't be spending time on this because, in your opinion, there are other things they need to do?

If that is your position, then...yeah...you are just wrong.

Also...did you not say (multiple pages ago at this point) that you were done with this conversation? I don't mind your continued "contribution" of course...but atleast say something new.

 

[Mike_Nomad]

It would do us all good if mappers would stabalize their map development at one point and not to update them all the time. Sure fixes will still be needed now and then, but that is also covered in Thor's proposal. If the development is stabalized and the map is polished, then why not add them into the game? I understand your point of forced changes by the QB, but that would depend on how the QB will look like. As for now we don't know. It's still just a proposal and I personally believe that it should be given a try. Not now, because many things will still need to be worked out. One of them should be how the QB would look like. And what rule set will be used to allow a map to pass or not. And remember, those that didn't pass can still be played using a redirect.

All the QB amounts to is another layer of useless bureaucratic control. It serves no real and genuine purpose except to allow CONTROL over the MAPS, MAPPERS, SERVERS and ADMINS!
No Thank you!!
​

Edit:
It's not a fix. It's an improvement!

So says you..... the alleged "improvement" has yet to be seen or even fully described except to show that this "QB" is just another layer of useless bureaucratic control.
​

"DON'T FIX WHAT AIN'T BROKEN!" & "TOO MANY COOKS SPOIL THE SOUP!!"

I say; "HANDS OFF!!" What we have now works and works well!
​

 

[Ducky]

Glad to see that you acknowledge that the current system isn't perfect

Sorry, not going to rage against you because you are mostly right.

People will stop to switch servers or turn off the game. These are all things that take up about as much time to do as downloading a map via redirect if you think about it. For the majority of people, that really is pathetic

Moe, its because they've had their brains kicked in by that awful Steam Workshop implementation we've all been hit with.

Those Servers with a high quality ReDirect send the maps to the users fast, reliable and working properly. The system works well.

Its sad that the users have to wade through a bunch of crummy rule-infested servers with lousy redirects or no redirect at all. SWS (Steam Workshop) as implemented for RO2/RS is a total failure. Then to add insult to injury, the 200mb file-size limit is a joke as far as our maps are concerned.​

​

​

I do not blame the users... They have to wade through too much garbage.

Source: http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?p=1240843#post1240843

 

[Mike_Nomad]

Originally Posted by Mike_Nomad
Quote:
Originally Posted by =GG= Mr Moe
Sorry, not going to rage against you because you are mostly right.

People will stop to switch servers or turn off the game. These are all things that take up about as much time to do as downloading a map via redirect if you think about it. For the majority of people, that really is pathetic

Moe, its because they've had their brains kicked in by that awful Steam Workshop implementation we've all been hit with.

Those Servers with a high quality ReDirect send the maps to the users fast, reliable and working properly. The system works well.

Its sad that the users have to wade through a bunch of crummy rule-infested servers with lousy redirects or no redirect at all. SWS (Steam Workshop) as implemented for RO2/RS is a total failure. Then to add insult to injury, the 200mb file-size limit is a joke as far as our maps are concerned.​

I do not blame the users... They have to wade through too much garbage.

Glad to see that you acknowledge that the current system isn't perfect

I have said that for months and months its nothing new. SWS is garbage and some servers are junk. You made no point that hasn't been indicated before.

All the QB amounts to is another layer of useless bureaucratic control. It serves no real and genuine purpose except to allow CONTROL over the MAPS, MAPPERS, SERVERS and ADMINS!
No Thank you!!
​

"DON'T FIX WHAT AIN'T BROKEN!" & "TOO MANY COOKS SPOIL THE SOUP!!"

I say; "HANDS OFF!!" What we have now works and works well!​

 

[Ducky]

I have said that for months and months its nothing new. SWS is garbage and some servers are junk. You made no point that hasn't been indicated before.

All the QB amounts to is another layer of useless bureaucratic control. It serves no real and genuine purpose except to allow CONTROL over the MAPS, MAPPERS, SERVERS and ADMINS!
No Thank you!!
​

"DON'T FIX WHAT AIN'T BROKEN!" & "TOO MANY COOKS SPOIL THE SOUP!!"

I say; "HANDS OFF!!" What we have now works and works well!​

And that is why Thor come up with this suggestion/proposal/idea. To make it easier for all. It might work for you, but for some it's still too complicated. Redirects can do fine, but for large maps it can still run up to 5 to 10 minutes download time if the server is on an other continent. At that point players will look elsewhere. The players now days want to play a match from the start of the match and not step in after the first couple of caps are already captured. We can't change that attitude, but we can at least try to prevent that they have to wait that long.

Edit:

I have said that for months and months its nothing new. SWS is garbage and some servers are junk. You made no point that hasn't been indicated before.

The point that I tried to make was that you do acknowledge that the current situation isn't perfect. In other words some improvement is required. This proposal of Thor is one possible improvement. It has cons and pros. All changes do have that. There is no need to bark around while others are trying to discus something.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

You do realize that you only have to download a map once thru redirect unless it has been changed. You can then play on all the servers without having to redownload it.

(with a few exceptions of course) to not spend the time to download the map is kind of ridiculous.

Ducky, to be honest, what are the odds of joining a server at the very beginning of a map? Chances are at least at the beginning of joining a server, every player is joining at some point in the middle of a game. If they quit to join another server (because they don't want to wait to download another map) chances are they will join that new server in the middle of a map round. Not really a good excuse.