Custom Maps - Qualification Board & Forced Download
- Thread starter -=THOR=-
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But to not be greeted with this;Yes, do visit and have your say....
I must agree with your opinion? You only speak for yourself, not the community...
Mapping/Modding supports THIS game, and it is up to TWI to what extent it does contribute. Recooking after each update does not help, which the QB may provide a way for some maps to perpetuate after the mapper has left the community. If I had bailed in May, Yakovlevo would not be being played today. If others had contributed their source files to an entity like the QB, maybe more maps would STILL be available on custom map servers.
In the natural scheme of things Players>Servers>Mappers/Modders. Because of TWI's history, increasing the lowest denominator pushs counts higher up the food chain (RS as proof).
Many popular games do not offer the opportunity for mapping/modding. From the point of view by EA and Activision, the return on investment for mapping/modding is not worth the effort, or missed revenue of DLC.
I'm a minority that actually looks for a SDK as a reason to buy a game. An apolitical/nonpartisan QB system may attract more mappers/modders than it would dissuade.
In the natural scheme of things Players>Servers>Mappers/Modders. Because of TWI's history, increasing the lowest denominator pushs counts higher up the food chain (RS as proof).
Many popular games do not offer the opportunity for mapping/modding. From the point of view by EA and Activision, the return on investment for mapping/modding is not worth the effort, or missed revenue of DLC.
I'm a minority that actually looks for a SDK as a reason to buy a game. An apolitical/nonpartisan QB system may attract more mappers/modders than it would dissuade.
Certainly understandable that supporting an added level of bureaucracy with zero value added to the game would have its "downsides and obstacles to overcome."
Yet again this misconception appears. Yes, the proposal does have downsides but it is not bureaucratic in the fact that it does not force server owners to run maps. If a custom map is accepted by the QB - the server owner can choose not to run it (I'm sure admins know how to edit the map rotation
). They can run any custom map they like. It adds value like any other community map pack, extra content that will be played on most servers. It may be a few hundred megabytes each patch, but it would be worth it.I'm ok with paying for mappacks. It could be done the same way it is with RS. Those who do not pay can only play rifleman.
I know I am opening myself up to a hornet's nest here...but how else do we make this viable for a small company like TWI?
I know I am opening myself up to a hornet's nest here...but how else do we make this viable for a small company like TWI?
Imo the biggest problem I see in custom maps for ro2 is the engine itself.Unless its fixed after each major patch mappers have to recook their maps for them to work again.The problem is not everyone will be an active mapper recooking their maps everytime.
We have already seen maps disapear due to this problem.
This is not TWI's fault from what I understand its a engine feature.
Hope a workaround is found because in "years" to come I fear more maps will be lost rather than added.
Back on topic I see NO harm in a QB
We have already seen maps disapear due to this problem.
This is not TWI's fault from what I understand its a engine feature.
Hope a workaround is found because in "years" to come I fear more maps will be lost rather than added.
Back on topic I see NO harm in a QB
That's not what Jared said.
There is no bureaucracy element for TWI to consider.
After speaking with Yoshiro the main obstacles for TWI are manpower and time.
TWI would love to implement an idea like this if they could ensure a quick and easier process to the testing phase and ensure that they could test regularly with updated map versions after each test.
There are other legal complications for TWI when using community content but they are not insurmountable.
In addition any community panel or board would need to be NDA approved and consist of members willing to see the various testing elements completed over the long term.
The TF2 community team consists of 16 people and all they do is test community content for inclusion in the game.
They are a long term and established team which is something like what would be needed to implement this idea.
So the desire is there its just a matter of how it could be implemented to best suit TWI and the current workloads they have.
Maybe Thor could look at this and put together a presentation to TWI?
Sorry for putting you on the spot buddy..lol..
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I've said this before, in several places. The whole idea on paper sounds wonderful (like saying we all want World Peace so it will naturally just happen because we want it) but like all Utopian ideas it doesn't and won't work out that way.
First, two things that have been mentioned are manpower and time of which TWI has very little to spare. Witness TWI getting their own content out, vehicles (where are they), working on RS and KF, doing the map contest maps (we still don't have the second batch yet). I'm not knocking TWI on this, they are obviously busy and what they are currently doing takes time.
Then you have the qualification aspect of it and map ownership. Does this give ownership of the maps to TWI? Will the maps just have to be presentable and not crash the game or will TWI want to tweak balance and alter gameplay (CS cough cough we think it is too hard for the Germans to cap rail yard objective A ). Some mappers may welcome that, others not so much. I can say as a player, I don't, I would hate to see a map dumbed down for a bunch of casual players. I know I'm not alone on that, and can probably think of a few mappers who would agree with me.
At best, I see this proposal working but with long time delays, more than mappers and players will expect, and probably a few issues with the QB board. I personally don't see the best case scenario happening though and those that do I think are being overly optimistic.
First, two things that have been mentioned are manpower and time of which TWI has very little to spare. Witness TWI getting their own content out, vehicles (where are they), working on RS and KF, doing the map contest maps (we still don't have the second batch yet). I'm not knocking TWI on this, they are obviously busy and what they are currently doing takes time.
Then you have the qualification aspect of it and map ownership. Does this give ownership of the maps to TWI? Will the maps just have to be presentable and not crash the game or will TWI want to tweak balance and alter gameplay (CS cough cough we think it is too hard for the Germans to cap rail yard objective A
). Some mappers may welcome that, others not so much. I can say as a player, I don't, I would hate to see a map dumbed down for a bunch of casual players. I know I'm not alone on that, and can probably think of a few mappers who would agree with me.At best, I see this proposal working but with long time delays, more than mappers and players will expect, and probably a few issues with the QB board. I personally don't see the best case scenario happening though and those that do I think are being overly optimistic.
I don't believe it to be utopian or impossible but it will be difficult.
Absolutely agree that TWI would be hard pressed to run this which is why a Quality Board was suggested made up of community members who would essentially remove the burden of testing and basic quality control from TWI.
This would ideally need to be community members with testing experience and mapping or SDK knowledge.
Then you have the qualification aspect of it and map ownership. Does this give ownership of the maps to TWI? Will the maps just have to be presentable and not crash the game or will TWI want to tweak balance and alter gameplay (CS cough cough we think it is too hard for the Germans to cap rail yard objective A
I would imagaine that any community map submitted and accepted would have to be given over to TWI eventually.
As with every community map that has been released into both RO & RO2 via an official game patch.
I think testing is where both the mapper and the QB testers would find out what works and what does not.
I personally believe that map design should always be the designers choice and testing is where that designer finds out what parts of the design does or does not work.
I think you have some valid points Mo and I don't believe anyone can argue with the time and manpower issues.
In essence the QB board would need to be setup by TWI with people who could commit their time to the testing process over a long period and of course mappers would need to put time and effort into maps in order to get to the desired standard.
But I also believe we already have some maps in the community that are very close to the release standard set by TWI.
It really is a case of turning the obvious desire of many in the community to get more community content into the actual game into a realistic and viable resource for TWI to use.
Not easy but not impossible...
Their job just got a bit easier with that new beta item import tool, would be interesting to see if something similar could be developed for RO2 maps. Perhaps a program that would check the custom map against a set of guidelines for compatibility and then produce a response, e.g This map will/will not work ingame because of XYZ. Might not be possible, but it would make the job a bit easier I think.
He can't get what he wants, so is trying to ruin it for others. Apparently the people who want to see more community maps become part of the game are "control freaks".
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waiting for "whiteknight" response from him
Anyways. I like the proposal of a board made of long standing community members.
there will be some overhead for TWI the uploads cant be done other that by TWI from steam.
I would imagine the biggest stubbling block from a TWI point of view is if the maps cause PC to fall over - I dont know if its possible but can steam offer you the option to update to or with a praticular update ? Yosh do you know
If steam does rather than an auto download tat might be the answer giving people the option to take it upon themselves to either accept or decline the map update
re- the choosing, testing and other admins stuff could well be done by community & probaly should be - that will save arguements if a map turned down
the ownership of the content could be a issue if the maker retains the rights - and falls out with TWI he could demand the removal of his content
So they would have to be released under some kind of open source agreement idea which is possible
I would imagine the biggest stubbling block from a TWI point of view is if the maps cause PC to fall over - I dont know if its possible but can steam offer you the option to update to or with a praticular update ? Yosh do you know
If steam does rather than an auto download tat might be the answer giving people the option to take it upon themselves to either accept or decline the map update
re- the choosing, testing and other admins stuff could well be done by community & probaly should be - that will save arguements if a map turned down
the ownership of the content could be a issue if the maker retains the rights - and falls out with TWI he could demand the removal of his content
So they would have to be released under some kind of open source agreement idea which is possible