Custom map servers

[Drecks]

Sometimes i wonder how many custom maps servers out there
and what make serveradmins decide to not have custom maps.

There are many good custom maps out for Red Orchestra but most
servers runs stockmaps only. Is this lazyness or do they think custommaps
are bad. Could be they dont know how to set up the server for custom maps.
Or they simply don't know there are a lot of good custom maps.

I had this on my mind for a few months and it was triggered when i played
Zhitomir 1941 on a Finnish server and i asked the admin to try the winterversion
which was in its beta 6 at that moment.

He replied "We don't run custom maps" which makes me turn away from the
screen and bumped my head on the desk a few times and left that server.

I think good custom maps/content are the cream on the cake and
make the game live much longer. So i think we should promote the custom
content to serveradmins who only run stockmaps.
This knife cut both ways. The players have more to choose. The mappers
see more of their work shine and the game itself lives longer.

Any ideas ?

 

[blkmgc]

We run quite a number of customs. The biggest determining factors for us to keep them in rotation are map quality, spawnpoint placement and advancement, and gameplay. Server admins are really neglecting thier audience if they dont offer these up, as some are done very well and add a whole new experience to the game.

Big <S> to the map makers out there. Your work is very greatly appreciated.

 

[Zetsumei]

the main problem with customs is the downloads, if you change from a default map to a custom instantly the server nearly empties.

My internet personally sucks aswell and i hope that some other maps will get added to the defaults map list. Although im not much of a pubber anyway ;P

 

[smokeythebear]

Another map contest would do it. This would add another 5-10 good custom maps to the already large pool of stock maps. I do like custom maps (so much I even made a few) but I admit there are a lot of terrible ones out there that can quickly empty servers. Although if people really do like a custom map it will get a good amount of playtime. I always see at least two full servers playing RO-Kriegstadt so maybe the problem is your not making what people want to play?

 

[Monkwarrior]

There is a solution for this.
If TW would be able to offer steam updates for custom content.
Of course these maps would be different from the normal maps so no or little screening would be necessary from their side.
It would be an extra service for this community and IMO it's a win-win.
Let's use steam where it's meant for: pushing content to end-users.

Monk.

 

[Sigurd]

Zhitomir revenge deservs more playing time. I've been waiting for a final version for months. Guess its hard to finish it when you dont get feedback....

 

[Drecks]

so maybe the problem is your not making what people want to play?

First Smokey i started this topic not for my own stuff but for custom maps in general I used the Zhitomirrevenge as an example on how serveradmins could react. Second, about making stuff people want to play i only can't tell
Zhitomir 1941 seemed to be played very often. ;-)

Another contest won't be a solution. Monkwarriors idea seems to be the thing. Maybe a Steam update or a TripWire aproved update will make other maps more played.

Zhitomir revenge deservs more playing time. I've been waiting for a final version for months. Guess its hard to finish it when you dont get feedback....

I worked on that map this weekend will be release a final this week. That way almost all projects are
done....

 

[Divinehammer]

I agree with monk suggestion in that some custom map packs being pushed out would be the way to go. I guess though quality control would be the issue and the fact that a lot of maps though good never make it to a final stage. So it could glut up the users HD with some unneeded betas. not a real big issue though I wouldnt think. I think some of the issues are map time and quality. A lot of people dont want to play for an hour on one map even though it is a great map. That and you throw in a map that hardly anyone likes and it emptys the server. Drecks I think you said it best once "cant cook for every mouth" (pretty sure you said that) so it is hard to get the right map mix to keep everyone entertained. I do agree though that we should have more showcase servers. I have asked TWI if we could retask those 50 man servers to showcase custom work as they sit empty quite a bit but I have received no response yet. Good post hope we can get something done in this area. Truthfully I dont want to make another map because they dont get played enough.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Although if people really do like a custom map it will get a good amount of playtime. I always see at least two full servers playing RO-Kriegstadt so maybe the problem is your not making what people want to play?

I really don't think that is the problem at all, and to be honest, I like Kriegstadt also but had a hard time finding a server to play it on this weekend (except the BOH server which kept giving me mismatch errors...). When I did find one that didn't give me errors, it was only slightly more than half full.

Anyway, yes, there are some poorly designed custom maps out there that probably only have a nitch following. There are also earlier beta versions of maps that are not balanced still running on servers when newer better versions have been out there for a month or more. There are also many more well designed and very playable ones that I certainly want to play but usually aren't running when I sign on.

I certainly like the stock maps that are out there, but quite honestly I usually avoid them because I have played them sooooo often and would rather play others. Lets face it, despite the fact that I love this game and we all get great support from the developers, without the good custom maps (and content!) out there, I would hardly ever play RO (speaking for myself of course).

So the way I see it, there are several problems including:

- The download of a new map (some with many many extra files....) can be a deterent for some. For me, most servers download the map fairly quickly. Going along with this is the way the game drops all new maps in a cache that is defaulted to empty every 30 days or so. The setting is easily tweaked if you know what you are doing, or better yet if you know how to rename and move the files. Some people have problems with this. This is one area that I would say the game COD had a leg up on RO.

- The mentality of ~ it can't be a good map if it is not stock ~ There are just those people out there that don't like the idea of custom maps, period.

- Just playing in a populated server. Sure, you can find just about any map on a server, but are others playing it? Do you jump on that server and hope others will also, and play with a pitiful few players? Or do you join another populated server playing a map that may or may not be good (stock or custom), and not your first choice? I admit, I am guilty of this one. I am finding my time to play much more restricted as of late and I don't have time to sit in an empty/near empty server hoping others will join before I have to leave and take care of real life stuff.

------------------

So, yes, after that longwinded explanation, I do like the idea of a custom map pack (or packs) that can be distributed possibly over Steam with TWI's approval. That would be an excellent idea. Perhaps maps that have been tested for balance/fps/other issues over time could make it into this map pack (or multiple map packs). I don't know just what would be involved, but this is something that I think could help prolong the life of ROOST.

 

[ButchCassidy]

We have always welcomed the addition of custom maps on The Wild Bunch servers but more recently have begun to remove many of them as many don't seem to be being pushed along with a view to making a final version by their authors and even more of the new maps that are released are coming with a shed load of addon files.

Some of these maps can have an adverse effect on server traffic with so many files to download that the players are spending way too long downloading files rather than what they came onto the server to do which was actually play.

In truth popular servers cannot contain too many custom maps or they soon become unpopular because players prefer not to have to continually download maps and addons.

I personally would like to see mappers strive to make completed final versions and where possible build in as many files into the final map as possible rather than have additional add-on files.

We are begining to place final versions on our servers because of this but as stated we will always be willing to help mappers who want maps tested.

Although not too many at once.

The simpler a quality map is too place onto a server the better, especially if the Admin does not have to stop the server to get the map to run..
Again something we are seeing a lot of with added serverpackages etc. is that servers are having to be stopped and tested with the packages to make sure they run correctly.
On a busy server that is not always practical.

Also mappers must remember that the more files they add, the more compressed files need to be added to the redirect again something Admins don't always have time or access to do.

A Lot of betas often confuses players and admins so try to keep them down to a max 3 betas and then a final release.

These views are mine and are shared in part by many of TWB's RO Admins.
So please bear in mind that these are only some admins views but not every admins
point of view about why customs sometimes struggle to get an audience.

 

[Divinehammer]

Would a large mappack with a one click install be in order here? This would alleviate some stress on servers and make it easier for players to join while keeping bandwidth usage low. We could distribute it via bittorrent or some other means and may even be able to get a post on the RO news page for those that dont use the forums.

 

[Lt_Kettch]

We need some kind of community initated mapping contest (offering prices would be hard though) but on the other hand we would get a few quality custom maps (final versions of course ).
At the End we would have a "Player's choice" mappack which will be largly advertised and preloaded (in theory).

Also I would like to see some updated versions of older maps (Road to Hill, G

 

[smokeythebear]

I'm still waiting for a final version of Kolno

 

[Lt_Kettch]

I'm still waiting for a final version of Kolno

I bet FlahPanHunter is hiding all his faboulous maps in a final version in a secret place ... like Fort Knox or something

 

[Floyd]

We have always welcomed the addition of custom maps on The Wild Bunch servers but more recently have begun to remove many of them as many don't seem to be being pushed along with a view to making a final version by their authors and even more of the new maps that are released are coming with a shed load of addon files.

Some of these maps can have an adverse effect on server traffic with so many files to download that the players are spending way too long downloading files rather than what they came onto the server to do which was actually play.

In truth popular servers cannot contain too many custom maps or they soon become unpopular because players prefer not to have to continually download maps and addons.

I personally would like to see mappers strive to make completed final versions and where possible build in as many files into the final map as possible rather than have additional add-on files.

We are begining to place final versions on our servers because of this but as stated we will always be willing to help mappers who want maps tested.

Although not too many at once.

The simpler a quality map is too place onto a server the better, especially if the Admin does not have to stop the server to get the map to run..
Again something we are seeing a lot of with added serverpackages etc. is that servers are having to be stopped and tested with the packages to make sure they run correctly.
On a busy server that is not always practical.

Also mappers must remember that the more files they add, the more compressed files need to be added to the redirect again something Admins don't always have time or access to do.

A Lot of betas often confuses players and admins so try to keep them down to a max 3 betas and then a final release.

These views are mine and are shared in part by many of TWB's RO Admins.
So please bear in mind that these are only some admins views but not every admins
point of view about why customs sometimes struggle to get an audience.

What Butch says.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

So it seems that a map pack would be in order and if I understand correctly, some of the requirements should be:

- Actually be a final version and not need a version '2' (see more below)
- A reasonable game balance between the two sides (doesn't have to be 'idiot' balanced though, thinking required is ok with me)
- Decent fps for the average system so you don't loose players for that reason (similar to stock maps)
- Tested enough to know there are no glitches (holes, places to get stuck, etc)
- Any additional files needed for the map be compressed and somehow attached to the map (or available with the map, not sure how all that goes if possible)
- Not have anything associated with the maps so there are no conflicts with the server or other stock files (no mismatches etc), must be friendly enough for server admins to want to use the maps


Now, I do not run a server or actually create maps. My clan doesn't care much about RO ( ) and even if I had the talent; which I doubt... I don't have time** to create the quality maps that so many others have created. The list above is how I see it as a player.

How would we as a group be able to go about starting something like this? Could there be some sort of consensus on finished quality maps that we can get created as a map pack and at least have it available on Fileplanet or other places for download? Best scenarios would be to have a nice finished package autodownload via steam, but maybe even links here on the forums for the downloads and maybe even an official 'notice' for the map pack download when RO opens (news)? Maybe several packs would be required as new maps are finalized?

Am I just talking outa my a** or is this something we could have a chance with?

***PS: I don't mean to state that mappers have loads of time on their hands, I am sure they all suffer from lack of sleep to bring us their creations

 

[Murphy]

People who would download that mappack are usually the same people who also download maps from maporchestra.com or search for servers that play custommaps. Its not a way to reach those who are unaware of custommaps, or unaware of their quality.
It would be a way if it was an obligatory download over steam, but I doubt that's going to happen unless Tripwire starts another mapping contest and gets the finalists into the game.

A compilation thread where all the good, playable maps are listed, with a download link to their newest version might be better. Its comfortable too and its a lot easier to keep it up to date. We wouldn't need a new mappack once three new quality maps are released.

There could be an official update note or a message in the ingame serverbrowser that tells everyone about it.
Maybe even a new menu category for custom content. Like the "Community" section in the menu of UT2004, where you get a description of good maps and an opportunity to download them. The same, but bigger and better would be a nice addition for RO.

 

[Divinehammer]

I was seeing a mappack as a way to level the playing field for the moment. We could get alot of the files from Goral's site and package them into one giant one with installer. This would inclued all of the side files as well and all of the finished maps as of this moment and some of those more recently that are in beta stages could also be included. This would ease the download times for some players and stop cache roll off. I think an advertisement would be all we could get with TWI's help. I believe there are already compilation threads and we have a beta and final release thread. But not all players will see that because they dont come here. I doubt we get a community tab because then TWI would have to manage that. A map competition just for street credit might be a good idea with an offical mappack created from it and pushed via steam migh do us some good.

 

[smokeythebear]

Zhitomir 1941 seemed to be played very often. ;-)

Yes but Zhitomir is an official map now

Also if someone is affiliated with that site numbering the maps would be great. All I know is one of my maps is played more often then RO-Kiotos1944, which makes me happy and sad at the same time.

 

[Murphy]

Koitos died with the mod.